Why didn't Manny dominate Jeff Horn in the eyes of the judges?

[Combat Talk Radio]

Even the Copubox has Manny landing almost double horns punches, 182 to 92, 32% to 15%.

[Richard G]

You missed the point but okay. Obviously boxers hold and push genius. My point is that doesn’t win you rounds. Landing clean punches wins you rounds.

True, but if holding and pushing are part of a wider domination by one over the other then landing clean punches is not the only relevant indicator judges look for.

[Richard G]

I think if Manny and Horn fought tomorrow at the MGM, Manny would stop him in a one sided blowout, and if Horn managed to somehow stay on his feet I wouldn't be surprised if Manny shut him out

Too late, Hornet has gone up in weight.

[j.razor]

It’s not a pushing and holding contest. It’s landing clean punches.

That's what Jeff did. He beat Manny to the puch & bullied manny the whole night. Manny had one good round (9).

[j.razor]

Cause Manny wasn't ready for his MMA debut

LMAO

[ez396979]

It was literally one of three other reasons I listed in my post. It's just the only one you chose to comment on. Even if compubox is a BS stat, it still usually goes in favor of the victor, and Mannys number's (even if skewed) were way better than Horns.

So we cant use Compubox in this argument. Can't use the eye test, since the majority of people were screaming robbery after the fight, but that apparently doesn't count. Cant use the physical health of the fighters, as Manny didn't have a mark on his face but horn could barely see out of his swollen eyes and past his blood. Then what can we use? your Manny hating Floyd loving biased comment?

I swear, Manny and Floyd's fans ruin like 90% of all boxing discussions. 100% if one of them is being referenced in any way.

[Ritz Kola]

First of all, clearly you're not paying attention to the threads, or you would have seen that this is a straight up parody of the "why didn't Canelo dominate GGG in the eyes of the judges?" thread.

Second of all, I don't need to worship Floyd. He performs. That's all I look for - a fighter to show up and get that win. Period. Manny failed to do that..what, 7 times? And each time there was a different excuse. That's my problem with him. But if you were also paying attention, you would have seen that I was one of the FEW who called out that Manny won a very close but clear fight against Thurman DESPITE Compubox, and that's the reason that using Compubox to score fights is ******. I give Manny due credit when he performs. Like he did against Thurman and Broner. I criticize him when he doesn't perform. Like against Bradley in the first fight and Horn.

Third, maybe you're STILL not paying attention. But Bob Arum announced that Jeff Horn is about to face Murata if he gets past Zerafa, and I'd be shocked if he didn't get past Zerafa, frankly. If your boy takes out Zerafa and Murata, he faces Brant. If he beats ALL THREE of them and you people still don't give him credit for being a rugged, durable, decent fighter, you're just haters.

SO from my perspective...

Truest words on this site today. There was always an excuse when he lost. Which aggravated me to no end because those fights aside- he should’ve lost more but was gifted. When he’s gifted it’s not a concern but when he fails to perform and loses, idiots attack the other guy like it’s his fault. Worse fanbase in the sports history. Aj fans are bad but they just don’t reach that level.

Manny refusing to fight Horn in a rematch was the answer. He wasn’t confident he could beat him. Manny is known for rematches. Heck he’s chasing Floyd who outright dominated him. But won’t rematch Horn?

[Combat Talk Radio]

Even if compubox is a BS stat, it still usually goes in favor of the victor

SO basically you're saying that Keef Thurman beat Manny. Right?

So we cant use Compubox in this argument. Can't use the eye test...Cant use the physical health of the fighters...Then what can we use?

The same things you're supposed to always use. They haven't changed since immemorial. You've just been ignoring two of them and misreading one.

Effective Aggression: Who's throwing, who's active, REGARDLESS of type of punch (that means JABS COUNT):

For 7 rounds (OUT OF 12), that was Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn. The remainder was Manny throwing potshots and not coming forward. Horn was on the front foot the majority of the fight.

Ring Generalship: Who's bossing who around the ring? Who's walking the other guy down? Who is dictating the pace of the fight?

For 9 rounds (OUT OF 12), that was Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn. Manny was bossed around, period.

Defense: Not just blocking, how good are you avoiding damaging shots and making your opponent miss? How good are you at suppressing or nullifying offense HOWEVER YOU DO IT?

For 7 rounds (OUT OF 12), that was Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn. What people are ignoring is that Manny was never able to land his signature combination on Horn because Horn would immediately move to the side the moment he saw Manny throw the setup punch, and Manny would still go forward in the wrong direction, missing the rest. Horn's lateral movement was completely ignored and was underrated as a strategy - Eat the first punch as long as you don't get the combo, because the combo is what takes you out. Round 9 Horn went backward which is what got him caught - just like Thurman, just like Mosley. Never happened again when he learned not to go back. That's defensive IQ.

Hard and Clean Punches: When you do land, are you landing power shots? Body shots? Are you just light tapping? Does the opponent's head move when you land (see the GIF in my sig for a perfect example)?

For 6 rounds (OUT OF 12), that was Manny Pacquiao. As Pac/Thurman taught us, Compubox is NOT the right measure to use. They counted way more punches landed from Manny than did land clean on Horn. Vast majority of the HARD and CLEAN punches from Pacquiao were Round 8 and 9. You do NOT use one round to determine a fight winner.

But what's happening is that a lot of you are getting tricked by Manny's sneaky "steal the last 30 seconds" style. That's how he was able to beat Thurman, he stole at least three of those rounds with a strong last 30 seconds. Horn nullified this in all but Round 9 because he watched Floyd do the same thing to Manny. The bullying did its job - keep Manny from tossing punches Horn's way.

And again, if the ref allows it, it's legal. It's that simple.

[Mister Wolf]

Because Horn didnt fight scared. Manny didnt want seconds neither.

[Toffee]

Pac won that fight. Just look at Horns face, tells the whole story.

I must have missed a change in the scoring system.