I think some of you dont understand the concept on how punches are setup

[El Jesus]

From fighter to fighter and weight class to weight class different fighters setup differently. In this instance I will use Zab/Floyd/Margarito.

Zab is a southpaw and a fantastic boxer when he wants to be. He can move, hes slick and he sets up in a deceptive fashion that makes it hard to know when hes gonna throw a vicious counter straight left or whichever punch he feels he can hit you with. His handspeed is outstanding and the way he sets up makes it very difficult to catch onto his rhythm when hes focused.
KEYWORDS..WHEN HES FOCUSED.

Many of you love to make statements about how Zab caught floyd, or Corley caught floyd etc etc, this is all true, however, some of you compare Zab/Corley catching floyd and claim Margarito will do the same easily.

Ill tell you why this is not the case. Zab/Corley are much quicker than Margarito, their punches are not as easily seen and the footwork/stances/styles are not the same as Margarito's. I have seen about 7 Margarito fights, in each of those fights, Margarito fights in probably the most basic manner, plodding along for the most part, nothing about his game is deceptive, its straigth foward no bull**** pressure. Hes strong and his punches are stiff and they hurt, however, the way he sets up unfortunatly for him is taylor made for someone who is a properly prepared defensive fighter like Floyd is.

Having seen ALL of Floyds fights i know the best way to get to him is to properly set something up, constantly pressuring floyd isnt really gonna work, especially if he knows its coming. Castillo part 1 was the only time i saw floyd looking a bit lackluster as the fight went on, while i dont believe Castillo did much damage to floyd and while i FIRMLY believe floyd blocked alot of that ****, Castillo was effective in his pressure for that one fight. However, the next fight floyd took care of buisness, he knew what was coming and prepared for it properly. Which is why Jesus Chavez began to take such a beating in the later rounds as well as the fight drew on.

The thing is, alot of you compare Margarito's pressure to Castillo pressure..again, this is simply not true. Margarito is more like a Corralles than a Castillo, Castillo as much as I really dont like the guy is a superior boxer, with head movement and faster counterpunching than Margarito. The way he applies pressure is a bit more accurate and intelligent than Margarito does. Margarito can be hit, and im sorry, I dont think the guy is invincible, many people who said Floyd didint have the "power" to hurt, he hurt. Im not saying Knockout, but hurt. Castillo has a fantastic chin himself, but especially in the 2nd fight, its not like he easily walked through floyds punches like it was nothing.

Floyd sets up in such a way, you have to setup intelligently yourself. With floyd, your going to get hit, and its hard to hit him back. Another thing about Floyd is that he usually figures you out after a few rounds...time and again we see punches that were working for his opponent in rounds 1-4 get neutralized.

Another thing is that Floyd can take a decent punch, and alot of that is because he has a decent chin, but he also usually knows whats coming, even when you throw flurries of punches, hes good enough defensively to block it, or partially block it. Zab caught Floyd with some VERY good shots and even knocked him down slightly, but he was never really hurt, he got caught yes, but never really truely wobbled. Even in the corley fight he was just briefly stunned.

We also dont know how well Margarito is really conditioned, because hes never been in with a class A boxer, we dont know how well he stands up to being frustrated by speed and talent. How do we know that floyd going to his body isnt going to be an effective strategy?

On the other hand its possible that Margarito could try to muscle someone like floyd around, punk him, really get in his head and fight a little dirty.

So I hope you all understand that the styles of these people really matter, you cant go around comparing one persons strength to anothers because style varies from fighter to fighter. "Pressure" is a word easily thrown around, how you do it is another story, many of you underestimate ring intelligence. It goes a long way, Zab has nearly every skillset that floyd does, but hes too ****** to make use of it all for 12 rounds of every fight.

There are many other examples with many different fighters, however i hope some of you will take into consideration what im trying to say. The toughest part about my thread for me personally is that because ive never seen Margarito with anyone i actually rate as a outstanding fighter, i simply cant judge him that well, and because i have seen mayweather with about a few fighters that i rate well, especially Castillo/Corralles/Zab/Jesus Chavez/Genaro and Carlos Hernandez

It makes it easier for me to dictate how his style is presented. Mayweathers speed isnt as much an asset as is his intelligence and defensive ability, this is what i factor in when thinking about his future fights at 154/147.

I know ill get some hate for some of the things im saying (waits for ferocity to try to tell me im wrong on every angle) but hopefully you all see the logic in my statement.

[PATO 1]

brilliant post

[adrsan84]

good post,i see that you're saying man.

i respect it and all but there's a couple of things you underestimate, one margarito is more active than castillo and that is saying a hell of a lot seeing castillo fight. this means that there are more opportunities for him to catch floyd in a slip up than with anyone else. also his power is on a different level than all those guys except for maybe zab,but zab has quick power not like margarito. he will walk through ANYTHING floyd throws and throw his own. if daniel santos who wheighed in at 170 pounds fight night to his 150somethin couldnt deter him i really doubt anything floyd can throw will.

Of course floyd may box his ears off but thats a risk he is willing to take, because there is a definite chance he can upset him.

lets just have floyd sign for nov. 4th which i think he will and we'll see how it goes.

[El Jesus]

good post,i see that you're saying man.

i respect it and all but there's a couple of things you underestimate, one margarito is more active than castillo and that is saying a hell of a lot seeing castillo fight. this means that there are more opportunities for him to catch floyd in a slip up than with anyone else. also his power is on a different level than all those guys except for maybe zab,but zab has quick power not like margarito. he will walk through ANYTHING floyd throws and throw his own. if daniel santos who wheighed in at 170 pounds fight night to his 150somethin couldnt deter him i really doubt anything floyd can throw will.

Of course floyd may box his ears off but thats a risk he is willing to take, because there is a definite chance he can upset him.

lets just have floyd sign for nov. 4th which i think he will and we'll see how it goes.

I doubt hell walk through anything floyd throws at 147 vs margarito, but thanks for reading my big wall of text.

[PATO 1]

i dont think he can walk through all his punches


sometimes the sheer volume of punches hurts more than the power

[Super_Lightweight]

No one should even doubt Margarito's conditioning for an instant. He throws twice as many punches a round as what Floyd and Zab do, with more power. This is why he can be effective, despite his lack of speed. If speed was everything, Roy Jones would've beat Tarver and Johnson easily.

Speed and technical skill have been overcome PLENTY of times by sheer size and strength and determination.

Does all this mean Tony would win? Not necessarily, but he does have a good style to have a chance.

[El Jesus]

No one should even doubt Margarito's conditioning for an instant. He throws twice as many punches a round as what Floyd and Zab do, with more power. This is why he can be effective, despite his lack of speed. If speed was everything, Roy Jones would've beat Tarver and Johnson easily.

Speed and technical skill have been overcome PLENTY of times by sheer size and strength and determination.

Does all this mean Tony would win? Not necessarily, but he does have a good style to have a chance.

While i dont doubt what your saying...we havent seen Margarito in the ring with an elite to really know how and what he can do. Which is why i went out of my way to say that. And also you cant use roy jones as an example, we all know the move to heavyweight ruined the fights you mentioned, therefore to me that example isnt valid.

Plus, floyd has superior defense to Roy, he doesnt just move out of the way, he anticipates and reacts. Speed and Technical skill can be overcome by size/determination but the fact is, many determined and strong guys have been in mayweathers face and it hasnt worked. What i see beating mayweather was what Zab did..confuse him.

[Super_Lightweight]

Floyd's defense is no better. Or should I say WAS. Defense is simply avoiding a punch, which Roy did as well as anyone. Of course I agree the move down from 200 affected Roy a lot, but he still had very good speed.

Margarito has not been in with someone like Floyd, so you are right. We've seen Floyd in with someone similar to Tony, and it was a really rough time for Floyd (Castillo). Margarito is even bigger than Castillo is. This makes things very interesting.

Zab didn't come as close to beating Floyd as Castillo did, so we already know which style is more effective vs Floyd.

[El Jesus]

Floyd's defense is no better. Or should I say WAS. Defense is simply avoiding a punch, which Roy did as well as anyone. Of course I agree the move down from 200 affected Roy a lot, but he still had very good speed.

Margarito has not been in with someone like Floyd, so you are right. We've seen Floyd in with someone similar to Tony, and it was a really rough time for Floyd (Castillo). Margarito is even bigger than Castillo is. This makes things very interesting.

Zab didn't come as close to beating Floyd as Castillo did, so we already know which style is more effective vs Floyd.

Floyds defense is far better than Roy's, and i say this because floyd doesnt just rely on speed to move out of the way, i never saw Roy cover up like floyd does, i guess its hard for me to put into words, but in my opinion Floyd fights far more defensively than Roy did and to me has the superior defense.

Zab actually hurt Floyd and had him visibly troubled. Castillo to my knowledge of seeing both fights, never had floyd in such a dire position like Zab did in those early rounds with Zab also scoring a knockdown. Castillo pressured in the first fight in the 2nd half relatively well however he didint land with the accuracy they say he did, alot of that **** bounced off the shoulders and gloves, but thats my opinion. Regardless he fought Castillo twice and Jesus Chavez fought him in that manner as well. In none of those fights was floyd tagged like Zab got him. Because Mayweather looked genuinely confused at the way Zab was setting up, plus hes left handed.

Here is the thing, Margarito is bigger and this is correct, but hes also slower, Floyd is still fast and will still be able to anticipate what Margarito is going to do, even if Margarito throws punch after punch, hes going to get hit and countered, even if it is by a smaller guy. Unlike Zab, Margarito doesnt have the handspeed, so the punches will be better anticipated. Margarito better hope that he has that power you all talk about, because thats what its gonna take.




I dont think anyone is just going to walk through floyds punches like nothing at 147, because i have seen time and again guys get countered over and over by guys who are lighter punchers, and while they arent brutally hurt or dramaged, they appear frustrated and sometimes it offsets their attack.

[Super_Lightweight]

Zab tagged him and still didn't come as close to winning as Castillo did. And Margarito is a hell of a lot bigger and stronger than Chavez. Zab started off well vs Floyd, then was beaten thoroughly for the rest of the fight whereas Castillo was in it all night.

Defense is simply avoiding a punch. Like I said, Roy did it better than anyone. There is no textbook that says there is a better way to not get hit. All that matters is not getting hit.

I believe this potential fight is 50-50.