Comments Thread For: Dmitry Bivol Has Few Issues in Outboxing Joe Smith Over Twelve

[P4Pdunny]

Decent fight and good victory

[_Rexy_]

Anyone notice that the fighters have DAZN patches on their trunks? I've never seen a network/promotion do that on fighters trunks before...maybe I've just never noticed it because it's a big black square that stands out on white trunks.

It's always bothered me that guys have ad's and even the sanctioning bodies patched on, soon these guys are going to look like Nascar drivers.

[PoserExposer]

Far from a strong suit bro. Rambling longer loses the effectiveness of any point you’re trying to make. It’s a fundamental rule or writing. Short, simple, concise with clarity. Remember, the mind can only bear as much as the a ss can. Readers will simply skip over your post if they have to sit so long to read through it. You’ll lose your target audience 100% of the time...

On this forum, it can can be, to me, as the shoulder roll was to Floyd in the ring, the bread and butter of my defense.

[HarvardBlue]

I took all the time to write them, any of you out there interested in doing me a favor and copypasting all my posts in this thread tonight on the last couple pages into one document, and telling me how many pages I actually wrote? I'd really be interested to see how far my gift/problem goes. I never intend to write this much, but I keep doing it. Once the wheels start spinning, I start rolling like a Ferrari and next thing I know, I'm hitting publish and watching a three page post show up on my screen.

I won't to personally thank you for making your post so long. I usually spend a lot of time going through pages and pages of mostly BS. Once I see how long your posts are I know for sure I'm not going to waste my time reading all that. You help me more than you can imagine.

[Citizen Koba]

I took all the time to write them, any of you out there interested in doing me a favor and copypasting all my posts in this thread tonight on the last couple pages into one document, and telling me how many pages I actually wrote? I'd really be interested to see how far my gift/problem goes. I never intend to write this much, but I keep doing it. Once the wheels start spinning, I start rolling like a Ferrari and next thing I know, I'm hitting publish and watching a three page post show up on my screen.

I got a similar issue, man. Cept in my case I tend to start off fairly concise then keep editing to add more to it as I turn over what I've written in my head. Even so your essays are maybe a little on the verbose side...

Ms Koba likes to point out (on the rare occasions she's feeling waspish) that I've probably written enough words on here in the last 5 years to more than fill the pages of the best-selling novel I keep threatening to start... and she's probably right.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Great fight far surpassing the usual self destructive mainstream media and fan's understanding.

A rare stylistic clash of two underrated fighters that actually delivered a classic for the ages with no controversy, instead steeped in mutual class between the fighters.

[Chuckguy]

?????

You mean like an extremely mobile, skilled, fluid, flexible, but not super strong, robot?

So like, a fluid boxer, more than a robot, really?

Bivol is like drago but I enjoy watching him fight

[Mammoth]

2 year layoffs are the norm now in the Floyd Mayweather blueprint era of boxing, so come off it with that. Many boxers in this crap era wait for guys to get old before fighting them, yet fans say nothing. But you want to talk about layoffs? I think that's even why Bivol made a point to mention in an interview, "Smith Jr is still young." He's oblivious to the criticism on this detailed of a level, in my opinion, so I think that was just speaking from the heart, honestly for once, about what boxers really know, but don't always tell the people, and that is that age is the most important thing, not "layoffs." As long as you're young, your body can get back to its peak very quickly, and you pick **** back up very quickly.

You saw tonight Smith looked in great shape. Maybe rehydrated a little too much which slowed him down, who knows, but if he hadn't his punches wouldn't have been as heavy, he wouldn't have been as strong in the clinch, and he wouldn't have stood up to Bivol's shots for 12 rounds. It's a tradeoff for sure. He's still in his athletic prime. You can have my favorite boxers like GGG fight six times a year, it wouldn't matter, they're probably not ever going to get their prime form back, you know what Im saying? So to complain about layoffs when so many of our favorite boxers were ducked in their primes and never got a chance to prove themselves at all, layoff or no layoff, seems unfair.

Not to mention, Bivol tried to fight Joe Smith Jr last fall, and it was even reported as done by some media outlets, but Smith Jr tried to fight the more stylistically beneficial Beterbiev instead, but then Beterbiev backed out, and that's the only reason Smith Jr was out those last 4 months. What do you want Bivol to do, hold up his own career even longer, another 4 months, waiting for Smith Jr to get a "get good" fight before going back to the world class level? That makes no sense from Bivol's perspective for an opponent that's not going to make or break his legacy anyway, and just as important to note, I think if Joe Smith Jr wanted to take the risk of an inbetween fight vs a B-level or C-level guy, for a 50k or 100k purse, and risk having his jaw broken for the third time in the ring for no money instead of a big payday vs a champion, he would have done it. I'm guessing this strategy was done by his team on purpose. Heal up, then go get a big money fight right away, nothing in between, in case the jaw goes again right away in the next fight, and then Smith Jr's career is basically over, no one can book him because his jaw breaks every fight, and he has no chance to make that money anymore. But this way, even if the jaw had broken again in back to back fights, they got one last good payday out of it, see what I mean?

It's the same thing people talk about with Walters. HBO was going out of boxing. They didnt want to spend any money. They were lowballing everyone. They had to put Crawford vs Postol on PPV just to get it done cuz they didnt have the budget to pay their purses for regular HBO. They rejected airing an Oscar Valdez card completely, that's a Mexican-American titlist they turned down completely, something HBO almost never does. So, the money that was there was all that was there. Loma accepted it, Walters didn't. To try to help matters, Loma offered 300k extra to Walters if Walters won, which is more than most boxers would do. Eventually, Walters circled back and took a worse offer than before to fight Loma, which proved Arum correct that within the HBO marketplace at that time, the offer Walters had already gotten, and rejected, was the best offer out there.

I think it was 600k or something. Loma I think got 1 mil. What, you don't think a P4P top 10 guy even back then in Loma could have demanded more than 1 mil for a unification fight against an undefeated KO artist with a 7 inch reach advantage who was the first to knock out Nonito Donaire, a big name in his own right? He could have but he believed in his skills so he accepted what was available. Walters didn't, until months later, which is why he had a layoff. Loma being a much more highly recruited amateur, which allowed him to get a better contract with TR than Walters did, as well as Loma being a higher ranked boxer and a bigger star, plus the fact that he accepted the fight but Walters didn't which I'm pretty sure triggers this type of **** in the contracts, allowed Loma to get a fight in between, while Walters sat out, but again that's not Loma's fault, that's not even really Top Rank's fault, that was just a combination of HBO's poor budget at the time, the difference in contracts with Top Rank between Loma and Walters due to Loma signing as a two time gold medalist and top recruit (just like higher picks in the NFL draft get better contracts coming out of college than late round picks), and Walters choice. Pretty much everything but Loma, maybe even everything but Loma and TR. It's rare that TR is blameless but this might be one of those times. Of course you can always say, "Arum is rich. He should have just paid Walters what he wanted," well in that case, you can argue anything, but if Arum is ever going to allow a precedent like that to be set that negatively affects his company going into the future, I don't think it will be to make a featherweight fight between a Ukrainian with less than 10 fights and a Jamaican. It's not fair, but it's probably true.

In any case, Loma won every round of that fight, just like Bivol (basically) did vs Smith Jr. If you want to use the layoff excuse, it should at least be in close fights. When it's that wide, it's hard for me to believe the layoff was the reason. See GGG is past prime, which affects boxers ability to win way more than layoffs in their primes, and yet he still arguably beat Canelo twice. Even if you think Canelo won 1 or 2 of them, you'd still have to say GGG came razor close to beating him, that it was extremely competitive.

Those are the situations where "excuses" should not just be made, they should be the headlines to every story about the fight. "GGG-Canelo fight proves that GGG is old, but that if he had been in his prime, he definitely would have beaten Canelo in decisive fashion. Most still think even the old version beat Canelo, just not nearly as decisively as he would have in his prime."

That's when the "excuse" is relevant, when the fight was only say 1 round away from being run, but the reason the fighter didn't do better is such a big reason, such a significant reason, that it probably prevented him from winning not just 1 more round, but 5 or 6 more rounds.

That's when you can clearly say, "OK, he lost 5 to 6 rounds with age, but he still only lost by 1 round, so if he was in his prime and you added the 5 or 6 rounds in, he'd win by 4 or 5 rounds. Clearly, he was better in his prime. Clearly, age decline is not an excuse, but the genuine #1 reason, he lost this fight."

That's when it's fair. But layoffs in your prime don't cost you near 5 to 6 rounds, if any at all. Maybe the 1st round or 2 to get back the feeling of being in the ring, but as long as you got back in peak shape and sparred a lot, you should be sharp in terms of the physical aspect of boxing, and the mental familiarity should come back after 2-3 rounds at worst. And yes Smith Jr started slow but he was going to lose the early rounds to a fast fresh Bivol isn't he in all likelihood, wasn't he? I'm not saying it's ideal or anything but that's #boxing, especially in this weak era. We're always having to guess how good guys are based on one fight every 6 months, vs B-level guys, sometimes B-level guys who haven't fought in ages, sometimes B-level guys (or when it's A-level guys too) who used to not drug test, but now they do, or used to drug test, but now they don't, or got caught for PEDs in the past, but are allowed to box again but only with extra drug testing, and then everyone is left to guess whether that version of the fighter that one boxer fought on one night is better, worse, or the same as the version of the fighter that looked good, or bad, one night three years in the past.

See what I'm saying? So yes ideally, every boxer would fight after the same amount of time off, on an even playing field, at the same age, at the same exact weight in the ring every time, and so on, but it doesn't work that way. That's why if you get caught up in the little things that aren't even in the control of Bivol's team or his promoter, like how long Joe Smith Jr decides to stay out of the ring or when he decides to take the fight, you can lose sight of the big factors we actually should be paying attention to because we KNOW for a FACT that they REPEATEDLY effect a boxer's performance in EXTREME ways, like turning 33 years old, or being weight drained. Those are usually the biggest factors in any fight between natural boxers, or non-exemptions to the rule, where either of those factors is in play. Layoffs are just the decision of the boxer and his promoter, or due to politics outside the control of their rivals. I have witnessed no obvious, recurring trend of boxers in good shape performing poorly after layoffs. Just look at Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder was his first dangerous opponent not just after a long layoff, but after abusing his body, and he looked great.

Floyd came back after long layoffs all the time and looked good. Why? Because he was better than his opponents and that's what the real issue was in Bivol-Smith and Loma-Walters, not layoffs. Same with Pacquiao when he came back, he still looked the same. Why? Cuz he was still better than his opponents, unlike Smith Jr and Walters vs Bivol and Loma respectively.

And I'm sure there are tons of other examples. GGG had a 6 month layoff before the first Canelo fight, much longer than he's been used to for most of his career, and still performed... well really poorly overall, but for his AGE, quite well, well enough to win, not that beating Canelo means anything but I'm just saying.

Gary Russell Jr came back from a long layoff I think before Jo Jo Diaz, gave the grittiest performance of his career and got the best win of his career vs the #2 featherweight in the world. He fought Lomachenko when he was more active, but lost almost every round. Once again, the level of opponent is what dictates the outcome, not the amount of time off.

Stevenson always had real long layoffs, still KO'd his B-level and C-level opponents. Why? Cuz they weren't as good as him.

Badou Jack was laid off way longer than he wanted to be before fighting Stevenson, due to Stevenson's inactive schedule, so it was what Stevenson wanted but not Jack, yet Jack still gave one of the best performances of his career and earned a draw.

So I don't see layoffs as a big factor either way. Fights where a guy has a long layoff seem to go the same way they would have gone without the long layoff, to the better boxer. Age is the complete opposite. You constantly see the older boxer lose to the younger boxer even if the older boxer was better in his prime. That's why age is what we should pay attention to, not layoffs. Bivol and Smith Jr are both in their twenties, both in the peak, prime years of their career, and that's probably why Smith Jr was able to sustain the damage he did the first 9 rounds and still have something left in the 10 to hurt Bivol badly, meanwhile it's also probably why Bivol was able to take that huge shot and come back two rounds later. The last few rounds of the fight were very suspenseful as a result, and I don't think it would have even gotten to that point had Smith Jr been, say, GGG's age.

In fact, he will be retired long before then I'm guessing, even with all the rest and layoffs along the way. That's because age is the key factor, not layoffs. The most important variable in boxing is age, followed by other advantages A-sides use to get wins over superior opponents, followed by talent. Those are the three key things every boxing fan and writer should pay attention sure. I sure as hell know the promoters and matchmakers do. Layoffs, I'm not saying they mean NOTHING, but if those are the top 3 things on the list, "layoffs" would be like 50 pages down somewhere in small print. It CAN have a big effect SOMETIMES, but usually only cuz the fighter didn't get in shape in time. Otherwise, yes it can still SOMETIMES be a factor, but you never really can tell, and it's a lot less likely to determine a fight than the 3 things I mentioned, like WAY less likely.

Last example: Loma fought Pedraza first fight back from shoulder surgery, and didn't use his right hook until the 11th round or at all in training camp in order to give that part of his shoulder more time to heal. Doctor told him jabs are okay, right hooks can be dangerous. So not only did he unify with Tank's best opponent, at a better weight for Pedraza in a better state
and a worse weight and state for Loma, his first fight after a layoff and shoulder surgery, but he did it without an entire key punch in his arsenal, the one that maybe could have kept Pedraza from constantly escaping out to the side, right?

Yet Loma still won almost every round and would have KO'd Pedraza if he hadn't been saved by the bell in the 11th. This after injuring that same shoulder in the 2nd round of his first fight in a new weight class, vs the top fighter in that weight class outside of Mikey who is really a 140 pounder and that's the biggest reason I ranked him over Linares, size and strength. That's right, Loma fought Linares in his first fight at 135, no tuneups to acclimate to the new weight, even though really, Loma was untested vs the bigger guys at 130 too! They didn't want to fight him either. His big fight at 130 was the defacto unification of 126 pound champs, 1v2 (except GRJ who Loma already beat), but at 130. He never even got to see how he handled the size of the big guys at 130 like Berchelt, Tank, etc, and then he moved straight up to 135 to fight Linares. And then he injured his shoulder in the 2nd round. And then he got knocked down. But he still found a way to win.

So where does the excuse enter into it? If you're past prime, or weight drained, so you are literally physically affected, your punches are not as fast or powerful, your legs are not as fast as powerful, you try to punch your opponent but they dodge it with better reflexes and then counter you and hurt you because they are younger, faster of body and mind, and more powerful than you now thanks to age... THAT is a real excuse. Age is affecting literally your ability to box, react, to use the tools with the same speed and power and endurance as you used to that are literally what boxing is based around, your arms, your legs, etc. That is something real, something tangible, something you can see and even measure in a sport's science lab. Layoffs in your prime? Not the same. As long as you get into great shape in the gym, all your tools will still work just as well as before, just as fast, just as powerful, just as much endurance, and even just as much timing and accuracy provided you've sparred a lot. Boxers don't learn or perfect their craft by practicing it 2 or 3 nights per year in sanctioned fights. It's in the gym every day that they do that. That's just another reason why I question the layoff excuse.

Hopefully this long ass essay was at least educational or compelling to you or anyone else reading. Peace.

Lol f@g lol

[Adamsc151]

Smith Jr was made for Bivol; hits hard, tough as old boots, naturally big at the weight, but basic skill set. We won't see Bivol truly tested until he fights another boxer with the benefit of an extensive amateur background - or someone who's just naturally slick.

[Squ□redCircle34]

Cong**** to Bivol, rooting for Smith jr to blast him but he almost did at the bell in the 10th round, had Bivol froze stiff looking at the lights!

Good fight even if repetitive in some spots!

Hope we get Bivol vs Beterbiev unification or Kovalev vs Bivol