Comments Thread For: Dmitry Bivol Has Few Issues in Outboxing Joe Smith Over Twelve

[MulaKO]

he seemed more hesitant when he got caught by that bomb at the bell.

Learning experience though. he won't let his guard down until after the bell now.

It was clearly after the bell in his defense
Then again protect yourself at all times lol
I agree , I think his equilibrium and balance went and would make sense as he got hit on the ear and rear of his head
I thought he was hesitant the whole fight , didn’t seem himself
Post fight interview he mentions experience

[Boxing Logic]

Didn't sully did the same to Smith? Smith is a very limited but as usual this victory for Bivol is made into something. Let not forget that Chilemba coming from 2 year layoff did more than okay.

2 year layoffs are the norm now in the Floyd Mayweather blueprint era of boxing, so come off it with that. Many boxers in this crap era wait for guys to get old before fighting them, yet fans say nothing. But you want to talk about layoffs? I think that's even why Bivol made a point to mention in an interview, "Smith Jr is still young." He's oblivious to the criticism on this detailed of a level, in my opinion, so I think that was just speaking from the heart, honestly for once, about what boxers really know, but don't always tell the people, and that is that age is the most important thing, not "layoffs." As long as you're young, your body can get back to its peak very quickly, and you pick **** back up very quickly.

You saw tonight Smith looked in great shape. Maybe rehydrated a little too much which slowed him down, who knows, but if he hadn't his punches wouldn't have been as heavy, he wouldn't have been as strong in the clinch, and he wouldn't have stood up to Bivol's shots for 12 rounds. It's a tradeoff for sure. He's still in his athletic prime. You can have my favorite boxers like GGG fight six times a year, it wouldn't matter, they're probably not ever going to get their prime form back, you know what Im saying? So to complain about layoffs when so many of our favorite boxers were ducked in their primes and never got a chance to prove themselves at all, layoff or no layoff, seems unfair.

Not to mention, Bivol tried to fight Joe Smith Jr last fall, and it was even reported as done by some media outlets, but Smith Jr tried to fight the more stylistically beneficial Beterbiev instead, but then Beterbiev backed out, and that's the only reason Smith Jr was out those last 4 months. What do you want Bivol to do, hold up his own career even longer, another 4 months, waiting for Smith Jr to get a "get good" fight before going back to the world class level? That makes no sense from Bivol's perspective for an opponent that's not going to make or break his legacy anyway, and just as important to note, I think if Joe Smith Jr wanted to take the risk of an inbetween fight vs a B-level or C-level guy, for a 50k or 100k purse, and risk having his jaw broken for the third time in the ring for no money instead of a big payday vs a champion, he would have done it. I'm guessing this strategy was done by his team on purpose. Heal up, then go get a big money fight right away, nothing in between, in case the jaw goes again right away in the next fight, and then Smith Jr's career is basically over, no one can book him because his jaw breaks every fight, and he has no chance to make that money anymore. But this way, even if the jaw had broken again in back to back fights, they got one last good payday out of it, see what I mean?

It's the same thing people talk about with Walters. HBO was going out of boxing. They didnt want to spend any money. They were lowballing everyone. They had to put Crawford vs Postol on PPV just to get it done cuz they didnt have the budget to pay their purses for regular HBO. They rejected airing an Oscar Valdez card completely, that's a Mexican-American titlist they turned down completely, something HBO almost never does. So, the money that was there was all that was there. Loma accepted it, Walters didn't. To try to help matters, Loma offered 300k extra to Walters if Walters won, which is more than most boxers would do. Eventually, Walters circled back and took a worse offer than before to fight Loma, which proved Arum correct that within the HBO marketplace at that time, the offer Walters had already gotten, and rejected, was the best offer out there.

I think it was 600k or something. Loma I think got 1 mil. What, you don't think a P4P top 10 guy even back then in Loma could have demanded more than 1 mil for a unification fight against an undefeated KO artist with a 7 inch reach advantage who was the first to knock out Nonito Donaire, a big name in his own right? He could have but he believed in his skills so he accepted what was available. Walters didn't, until months later, which is why he had a layoff. Loma being a much more highly recruited amateur, which allowed him to get a better contract with TR than Walters did, as well as Loma being a higher ranked boxer and a bigger star, plus the fact that he accepted the fight but Walters didn't which I'm pretty sure triggers this type of **** in the contracts, allowed Loma to get a fight in between, while Walters sat out, but again that's not Loma's fault, that's not even really Top Rank's fault, that was just a combination of HBO's poor budget at the time, the difference in contracts with Top Rank between Loma and Walters due to Loma signing as a two time gold medalist and top recruit (just like higher picks in the NFL draft get better contracts coming out of college than late round picks), and Walters choice. Pretty much everything but Loma, maybe even everything but Loma and TR. It's rare that TR is blameless but this might be one of those times. Of course you can always say, "Arum is rich. He should have just paid Walters what he wanted," well in that case, you can argue anything, but if Arum is ever going to allow a precedent like that to be set that negatively affects his company going into the future, I don't think it will be to make a featherweight fight between a Ukrainian with less than 10 fights and a Jamaican. It's not fair, but it's probably true.

In any case, Loma won every round of that fight, just like Bivol (basically) did vs Smith Jr. If you want to use the layoff excuse, it should at least be in close fights. When it's that wide, it's hard for me to believe the layoff was the reason. See GGG is past prime, which affects boxers ability to win way more than layoffs in their primes, and yet he still arguably beat Canelo twice. Even if you think Canelo won 1 or 2 of them, you'd still have to say GGG came razor close to beating him, that it was extremely competitive.

Those are the situations where "excuses" should not just be made, they should be the headlines to every story about the fight. "GGG-Canelo fight proves that GGG is old, but that if he had been in his prime, he definitely would have beaten Canelo in decisive fashion. Most still think even the old version beat Canelo, just not nearly as decisively as he would have in his prime."

That's when the "excuse" is relevant, when the fight was only say 1 round away from being run, but the reason the fighter didn't do better is such a big reason, such a significant reason, that it probably prevented him from winning not just 1 more round, but 5 or 6 more rounds.

That's when you can clearly say, "OK, he lost 5 to 6 rounds with age, but he still only lost by 1 round, so if he was in his prime and you added the 5 or 6 rounds in, he'd win by 4 or 5 rounds. Clearly, he was better in his prime. Clearly, age decline is not an excuse, but the genuine #1 reason, he lost this fight."

That's when it's fair. But layoffs in your prime don't cost you near 5 to 6 rounds, if any at all. Maybe the 1st round or 2 to get back the feeling of being in the ring, but as long as you got back in peak shape and sparred a lot, you should be sharp in terms of the physical aspect of boxing, and the mental familiarity should come back after 2-3 rounds at worst. And yes Smith Jr started slow but he was going to lose the early rounds to a fast fresh Bivol isn't he in all likelihood, wasn't he? I'm not saying it's ideal or anything but that's #boxing, especially in this weak era. We're always having to guess how good guys are based on one fight every 6 months, vs B-level guys, sometimes B-level guys who haven't fought in ages, sometimes B-level guys (or when it's A-level guys too) who used to not drug test, but now they do, or used to drug test, but now they don't, or got caught for PEDs in the past, but are allowed to box again but only with extra drug testing, and then everyone is left to guess whether that version of the fighter that one boxer fought on one night is better, worse, or the same as the version of the fighter that looked good, or bad, one night three years in the past.

See what I'm saying? So yes ideally, every boxer would fight after the same amount of time off, on an even playing field, at the same age, at the same exact weight in the ring every time, and so on, but it doesn't work that way. That's why if you get caught up in the little things that aren't even in the control of Bivol's team or his promoter, like how long Joe Smith Jr decides to stay out of the ring or when he decides to take the fight, you can lose sight of the big factors we actually should be paying attention to because we KNOW for a FACT that they REPEATEDLY effect a boxer's performance in EXTREME ways, like turning 33 years old, or being weight drained. Those are usually the biggest factors in any fight between natural boxers, or non-exemptions to the rule, where either of those factors is in play. Layoffs are just the decision of the boxer and his promoter, or due to politics outside the control of their rivals. I have witnessed no obvious, recurring trend of boxers in good shape performing poorly after layoffs. Just look at Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder was his first dangerous opponent not just after a long layoff, but after abusing his body, and he looked great.

Floyd came back after long layoffs all the time and looked good. Why? Because he was better than his opponents and that's what the real issue was in Bivol-Smith and Loma-Walters, not layoffs. Same with Pacquiao when he came back, he still looked the same. Why? Cuz he was still better than his opponents, unlike Smith Jr and Walters vs Bivol and Loma respectively.

And I'm sure there are tons of other examples. GGG had a 6 month layoff before the first Canelo fight, much longer than he's been used to for most of his career, and still performed... well really poorly overall, but for his AGE, quite well, well enough to win, not that beating Canelo means anything but I'm just saying.

Gary Russell Jr came back from a long layoff I think before Jo Jo Diaz, gave the grittiest performance of his career and got the best win of his career vs the #2 featherweight in the world. He fought Lomachenko when he was more active, but lost almost every round. Once again, the level of opponent is what dictates the outcome, not the amount of time off.

Stevenson always had real long layoffs, still KO'd his B-level and C-level opponents. Why? Cuz they weren't as good as him.

Badou Jack was laid off way longer than he wanted to be before fighting Stevenson, due to Stevenson's inactive schedule, so it was what Stevenson wanted but not Jack, yet Jack still gave one of the best performances of his career and earned a draw.

So I don't see layoffs as a big factor either way. Fights where a guy has a long layoff seem to go the same way they would have gone without the long layoff, to the better boxer. Age is the complete opposite. You constantly see the older boxer lose to the younger boxer even if the older boxer was better in his prime. That's why age is what we should pay attention to, not layoffs. Bivol and Smith Jr are both in their twenties, both in the peak, prime years of their career, and that's probably why Smith Jr was able to sustain the damage he did the first 9 rounds and still have something left in the 10 to hurt Bivol badly, meanwhile it's also probably why Bivol was able to take that huge shot and come back two rounds later. The last few rounds of the fight were very suspenseful as a result, and I don't think it would have even gotten to that point had Smith Jr been, say, GGG's age.

In fact, he will be retired long before then I'm guessing, even with all the rest and layoffs along the way. That's because age is the key factor, not layoffs. The most important variable in boxing is age, followed by other advantages A-sides use to get wins over superior opponents, followed by talent. Those are the three key things every boxing fan and writer should pay attention sure. I sure as hell know the promoters and matchmakers do. Layoffs, I'm not saying they mean NOTHING, but if those are the top 3 things on the list, "layoffs" would be like 50 pages down somewhere in small print. It CAN have a big effect SOMETIMES, but usually only cuz the fighter didn't get in shape in time. Otherwise, yes it can still SOMETIMES be a factor, but you never really can tell, and it's a lot less likely to determine a fight than the 3 things I mentioned, like WAY less likely.

Last example: Loma fought Pedraza first fight back from shoulder surgery, and didn't use his right hook until the 11th round or at all in training camp in order to give that part of his shoulder more time to heal. Doctor told him jabs are okay, right hooks can be dangerous. So not only did he unify with Tank's best opponent, at a better weight for Pedraza in a better state
and a worse weight and state for Loma, his first fight after a layoff and shoulder surgery, but he did it without an entire key punch in his arsenal, the one that maybe could have kept Pedraza from constantly escaping out to the side, right?

Yet Loma still won almost every round and would have KO'd Pedraza if he hadn't been saved by the bell in the 11th. This after injuring that same shoulder in the 2nd round of his first fight in a new weight class, vs the top fighter in that weight class outside of Mikey who is really a 140 pounder and that's the biggest reason I ranked him over Linares, size and strength. That's right, Loma fought Linares in his first fight at 135, no tuneups to acclimate to the new weight, even though really, Loma was untested vs the bigger guys at 130 too! They didn't want to fight him either. His big fight at 130 was the defacto unification of 126 pound champs, 1v2 (except GRJ who Loma already beat), but at 130. He never even got to see how he handled the size of the big guys at 130 like Berchelt, Tank, etc, and then he moved straight up to 135 to fight Linares. And then he injured his shoulder in the 2nd round. And then he got knocked down. But he still found a way to win.

So where does the excuse enter into it? If you're past prime, or weight drained, so you are literally physically affected, your punches are not as fast or powerful, your legs are not as fast as powerful, you try to punch your opponent but they dodge it with better reflexes and then counter you and hurt you because they are younger, faster of body and mind, and more powerful than you now thanks to age... THAT is a real excuse. Age is affecting literally your ability to box, react, to use the tools with the same speed and power and endurance as you used to that are literally what boxing is based around, your arms, your legs, etc. That is something real, something tangible, something you can see and even measure in a sport's science lab. Layoffs in your prime? Not the same. As long as you get into great shape in the gym, all your tools will still work just as well as before, just as fast, just as powerful, just as much endurance, and even just as much timing and accuracy provided you've sparred a lot. Boxers don't learn or perfect their craft by practicing it 2 or 3 nights per year in sanctioned fights. It's in the gym every day that they do that. That's just another reason why I question the layoff excuse.

Hopefully this long ass essay was at least educational or compelling to you or anyone else reading. Peace.

[Sleeks]

Hopefully this long ass essay was at least educational or compelling to you or anyone else reading. Peace.

It was not. It was the ramblings of a moron.

[Boxing Logic]

I've forgotten more about Boxing than you will ever know. Don't doubt that. The point here is, look back on how people hype Bivol up on here. He'd **** this fighter and that fighter, Kovalev is running scared, he'd have done worse to Stevenson than Gvozdyk did, he could beat Browne and Gvozdyk on the same night, easily outbox Beterbiev, would leather Canelo/Smith @ 168 and should fight Usyk, etc etc. Just some of the threads I've seen this week.

I dont remember anyone saying those things in those words, but I can absolutely imagine, even though I never saw the comments, that Bivol's power was overhyped coming up. Most boxers power is overhyped because it always looks better than it is when they're facing C-level or B-level guys without the punch resistance of A-level boxers and athletes.

Which reminds me, how bad must Trent Broadhurst's chin be? Because if any fight hyped it up, it was probably that one. That is the one where Bivol's power not only looked sensational, but you had the famous Roy Jones Jr commentating saying that Bivol is a better puncher than Kovalev. Well wtf do you expect fans to think when someone with the reputation of Roy Jones Jr says someone is a better puncher than someone with the reputation of Sergey Kovalev, while meanwhile everyone can see that Bivol is also a better boxer than him?

Better boxer than Kovalev, AND better power? According to Roy Jones Jr and outside of the power aspect, Max Kellerman, the two "best and most trusted boxing commentators in America!"

What do you expect people to think then? That's on them as much as anyone else. But clearly, Bivol's power isn't as good as Kovalev's let alone better. His power was definitely overhyped. His boxing ability might have been underhyped though don't you think? So overall, I'm thinking he might still be just as good as everyone thought, just in a different way than people expected or were told to look for by Roy.

[Boxing Logic]

SHUT YOUR MOUTH, Sully was injured in that fight. And bivol was on bed.

Injured how?

[Boxing Logic]

Lmao Barrera was stopped by exhaustion rather than being hurt, it ain't hard to see. And you forget it was in the last round lol

That's only an excuse when the exhaustion is due to the fighter being a drunk or out of shape or weight drained, like Kovalev vs Ward in both fights (and Chilemba before that, and Alvarez in the first fight after. Also vs Mikhalkin Kovalev said he had to lose 3 lbs the last hour before the weigh-in and this caused his legs to feel like "spaghetti" all fight in his own words). Are you saying that was the case with Barrera vs Bivol? Otherwise, if he came in his normal shape, the same guy who fought Andre Ward and so on, but Bivol was the only one with the combination of skill, power, and aggression to be able to exhaust him enough to then put him away late in the fight, then Bivol deserves full credit to that, and that absolutely is a credit to his power and KO ability. Does it say he is a 1 punch KO artist in the 1st round? No one is saying that, but it says he has enough power to wear down, exhaust, and then knock out a strong, durable, pretty good opponent like Barrera.

Barrera is the type of guy, if he was a welterweight and Floyd fought him, or if he was a middleweight and Canelo fought him, or if he was a SMW in Ward's era and Ward fought him, all the media would be fawning over him. They pretty much were anyway when Ward fought him at 175, but then once Bivol did even better vs him, the HBO commentators made sure to leave us with a parting comment about how Bivol still isn't as good as Ward, even though Bivol was his mandatory but Ward chose not to fight him, and then they promptly made it a point to basically forget about Barrera and stop hyping him up as a top guy.

Funny how it often seems to work that way.

[SHO_RULEZ]

Re

Wow...dude...its a message board, you're not writing a book...abbreviate your thoughts

[Boxing Logic]

I'll give him some leeway on the response due to language barrier and the noise. You could tell in Ajagba's interview he couldn't even hear the questions (though he was about two feet above the womans head)

I'm a big Bivol fan, but I won't give him a "pass" I will just wait and see. I never assumed the worst with him because he's always been consistent about wanting to fight the best, so much so he even gave an impromptu speech about it to assembled media at the end of his last post fight press conference which was one of the most awesome things I've seen in boxing. "I'm already 28, I feel I can do something special in boxing, but now is when I'm in my prime, and I want to prove it now, I want to get the big fights now to prove what I can do while my body is still able to do it at its peak prime level."

I am rephrashing it from memory, probably in better english lol, I hope, although his is amazing for a foreigner coming to the US just learning for SURE, but it was something like that, and it was awesome, and everything fans have been waiting so long to hear from a boxer, all the more relevant after the GGG-Canelo and Kovalev-Ward black eyes for boxing where all the fan and (shill?) media focus was put on the scorecards, but the real key to pulling off both those heists was GGG's age and Kovalev's age (which in his case, encompasses the drinking, smoking, whatever else, and the undertraining between fights then overtraining during camp to compensate and take the weight off then being "emaciated" in the ring on fight night according to Kathy Duva, or spaghetti-legged as Kovalev put it himself). Without them being so past their best, no ref or judge would have been able to give Canelo and Ward the wins, but with that KEY factor in place, it made everything else that was done possible. See what I'm saying? And the fights were delayed until that point on purpose in my opinion for that very reason. Just my opinion nothing more.

So for Bivol to give that speech was awesome, and made me twice the fan of his I already was. However, talk is cheap, so I'm just waiting to see what Team Bivol and DAZN have up their sleeves. Hopefully they deliver the goods for the summer. Should have done for spring in my opinion, start off with a ****, but now Im hoping for summer. And if they string us along in the summer, I'll be hoping for fall.

This after I lived through the same exact cycle as a GGG fan for like five years straight only to now be waiting forever to see prime GGG vs top opponents because it never happened and now it never will barring him looking more physically prime again at 168 if he moves up, but that's just another thing with GGG I waited fight after fight to see for five years only to never get to see. Ooops!

So it really is quite frustrating, and my patience is at an all time low for that kind of ****. Hopefully it goes a lot differently for Bivol, but as much as I like him, I'm not going to keep supporting any boxer for very long who doesn't get the top opponents in the ring. If they're blatantly ducked like GGG was, that's one thing, but even then, you need to find a way, up the money offer to your opponents, something. With the big spending DAZN backing Bivol now, everyone should have a lot higher expectations for them getting top opponents to sign on the dotted line, even if Bivol is feared too. I doubt it's as much as GGG was, given he has less power, but the 168 pounders at least might be just as fearful of him if not the 175s. But even if he is avoided, I still expect way better from Team Bivol and DAZN. 175 isn't like middleweight was in GGG's prime when the only other top guys were with Haymon or Pirog who got injured, or Martinez with Dibella. There are guys to fight.

Heck, Gvozdyk even said in an interview earlier this year, if Alvarez beat Kovalev in the rematch, he wanted to unify with Alvarez, otherwise if Kovalev won, then he wanted to unify with Bivol.

Could #BivolGvozdyk maybe be next? My ideal scenario was always Bivol vs Kovalev, and Gvozdyk vs Beterbiev, to crown an undisputed and hopefully, end up with Bivol vs Gvozdyk in the FINALs, the two youngest guys, the two most prime guys, making it potentially the most MEANINGFUL matchup. But now that Kovalev turned back the clock in his last fight, at least for his very next fight, Bivol fighting him would be just as meaningful. For the first time since the Pascal rematch, Kovalev can fairly be labeled a prime boxer again. I know he really isn't... his power, strength, punch resistance (probably meaning legs), are all not what they were, but his stamina was back, his speed was back, and with the right gameplan it turns out, he doesn't need the other stuff to be just as good as he was. The Kovalev we saw in the Alvarez rematch was physically less than prime Kovalev in certain ways, but he retained or regained the most important things, his speed and stamina, and implemented a gameplan to diminish the impact of the other things he was missing compared to his prime, and the result was Kovalev boxing better than ever, albeit still showing more vulnerability than in the past.

But overall, he was back to being just as effective as the guy who fought BHop, so that's prime Kovalev, just a little different. Now the moment his speed, stamina, legs, or punch resistance go away again, which could happen at any time, he won't be anymore, but for this very moment, he is, so if I'm Team Bivol, I might want to jump on that final passing of the torch opportunity for Bivol (since Stevenson is already retired and there will be no one else to pass the torch to Bivol once Kovalev's last prime moment/resurgence ends, barring a Canelo fight but I still doubt Canelo will fight him at least not on fair terms, and if it's not on a fair playing field then you're likely to lose, and if you lose, you don't get no torch passed at all, so Kovalev is still as good an option as any).

But if Gvozdyk vs Beterbiev, and Kovalev vs Bivol, with the winners meeting, is not doable, then Bivol vs Gvozdyk is the 1 vs 2 fight I always saw happening down the line anyway in the near future, so that would be a great matchup too. The actual official "lineal" torch, much as Stevenson ruined it in many ways, was already passed to Gvozdyk, so in a sense Bivol doesn't even need Kovalev's torch if he gets that one, although to really become a superstar at 175 and cross over in America, Bivol could use both, as could his legacy. In any case, you can't become undisputed without Kovalev's belt too.

So I'm definitely hopeful, but the way Kathy Duva and even Bivol's team was talking the week leading up to this fight... I watched every interview I could find... has me concerned that it's going to be Callum Johnson or someone like that in the summer, not anyone interesting. Bivol even said in an interview, after saying all the champs, that then "anyone in top 10 168 or 175 I am willing to fight. Badou Jack, even though he lost, that's still a good fight because vs Browne, he showed warrior heart."

So Bivol earns a mandatory opportunity at Jack when Jack is still hot, and it would help Bivol's legacy and brand, but Jack denies Bivol the opportunity he earned and eventually avoids Bivol a 2nd or 3rd time to go fight a prospect instead, and then loses every round. But now Bivol is going to give Jack an UNearned opportunity, when Jack is NO longer hot at all, and when it no longer does ANYTHING for Bivol's legacy or brand??

That sounds more like the plot to a cuckhold **** video than it sounds like smart career management in boxing. Way to set the precedent that "I'm so desperate for opponents, you can duck me when I earn my shot at you, then lose every round to a prospect, but I'd still love to fight you as a thank you. And here, you can have my entire purse too while we're at it. Would you like my belt as well? How about my trophies from the amateurs? Maybe you'd like to take my house for awhile see you're more comfortable there than your own place, or if it's more convenient for you? I can sleep outside in a tent on the lawn it's no problem at all. We have a great lawn that's actually one of the biggest reasons I thought you might enjoy staying at my house, and why I offered!"

I mean get the hell out of here. Bivol should give Jack the middle finger as a boxer, not a person, still have respect as a person, but boxing terms, in figurative, metaphorical terms, he should give Jack the middle finger and find an opponent who will still actually do something for Bivol.

But, he's the one who said it. And his team is the one sending out... unsure... smoke signals, so, as much as I like Bivol, I am in major wait and see mode. Hearn said Usyk would have a big fight his first go at heavyweight, now it sounds like it's back to Takam. They put Johnson on Bivol's undercard tonight. Kathy Duva sounds like she wants to milk more money out of Kovalev for awhile because she has no *****ing stable and she wants a network contact like GBP or PBC or TR has except she has 1% of the talent they do outside of Kovalev, far as I know, so it looks like Kovalev might be used as a political pawn now instead of fighting Bivol...

Gvozdyk, we have no idea. The WBC who protected Haymon's WBC titlist Stevenson for 5 years, no mandatories, no unifications, has already put another Haymon boxer, Browne, as the mandatory to Gvozdyk only 2 months after he won the title, and they're going to order it within less than a year of him beating the Haymon WBC titlist who was allowed to go 5 years without making a mandatory defense. Not only that, but Browne was interestingly made both the WBA and WBC mandatory at the same time, presumably so that whoever is looking weaker at a certain moment, or whoever gets out of shape or develops a drinking problem first, Bivol or Gvozdyk, Browne can pick the more beneficial, opportunistic option for himself to fight, and barring that, pick the best style for him (he already gave it away, Gvozdyk), or maybe that's not even necessary, maybe all it takes is either Gvozdyk or Bivol getting injured for a few months and the WBA or WBC will strip them or make them champ in recess and give Browne the top belt. The WBA already did it to Machado at 130.

It's like all these sanctioning bodies are *****ing desperate to get their belts out of foreign boxers hands and into American boxers hands. Either that or I am just seeing a pattern where there isn't one out of my own bias, thinking Im being objective about what they're actually doing when really I'm the biased one and just think they're doing something they're not... but I'm more than positive about certain similar patterns I've seen in boxing.

What would that be about, anyway, if it were the case? Does Hot Rod's leftovers really have more financial upside for the WBC and WBC than a potential future unified champion and P4P talent like Bivol? Or than the undefeated boxer puncher with KO power Gvozdyk who just stopped a star in Adonis Stevenson? What has Browne done? I know he's American but Gvozdyk and Bivol both speak english, so what's the issue? Browne is American but he already lost and looked really bad vs Hot Rod, and he's not one of the most hyped American boxers like Spence or Crawford or even TD, AND he's unreliable constantly getting in trouble with the law so much so that his fight vs Kovalev that was already negotiated got canceled, so why does it seem like both the WBA and WBC are in a giant hurry to take a belt back from either Gvozdyk or Bivol and get it in Browne's hands?

I just don't get it. People keep telling me it's all about the money in boxing, not nationalism, and yet even in the situations where the foreign boxers seemingly have more financial upside than the American, it feels like the sanctioning bodies _still_ want to promote the American over the foreign boxers. Confuses me to no end. Or, am I just wrong about Gvozdyk and Bivol (Bivol especially) having more financial upside than Browne? Because I'm PRETTY POSITIVE that I'm not wrong about that at all lol, in which case, still just as damn confused as when I said I was two sentences ago!

[Boxing Logic]

Wow...dude...its a message board, you're not writing a book...abbreviate your thoughts

I took all the time to write them, any of you out there interested in doing me a favor and copypasting all my posts in this thread tonight on the last couple pages into one document, and telling me how many pages I actually wrote? I'd really be interested to see how far my gift/problem goes. I never intend to write this much, but I keep doing it. Once the wheels start spinning, I start rolling like a Ferrari and next thing I know, I'm hitting publish and watching a three page post show up on my screen.

[Boxing Logic]

It was not. It was the ramblings of a moron.

Was it in response to you? I didnt pay attention to the name so Im genuinely asking. Anyway I dont think you read it so Im not taking the criticism personally.

And hell, if you did read it, that's still a damn good defensive mechanism though, isn't it? I think I can keep my feelings sheltered with that one in many situations going far into the future. On this forum, it can can be, to me, as the shoulder roll was to Floyd in the ring, the bread and butter of my defense.