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Lost all respect for Clenelo Alvaroids, Oscar De La Coca and Golden Girl promotions after robbing GGG in the first fight and taking steroids for the rematch. GGG deserves all the credit for being past his prime and STILL pushing the 28 year old juiced up Canelo to his limits.
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Canelo catchweight saga:
"If he wants to fight with me, let him come down to 155 and I'll fight him whatever day he wants. At this moment, my body isn't ready for 160 pounds. Maybe 1 or 2 more years I'll be ready for 160, I don't know, but I'd be delighted to fight someone like Gennady. He's a great fighter and I think it would be a great fight. I'd be delighted to get him in a fight."
There is no chance that I will go to 155-pounds for a Canelo fight. The division limit is 160 pounds, this is my weight class. I am a fighter, I am here not for business. I fight at middleweight or super middleweight. So, no chance I go to 156 or 158, thats just business. I think I would go to 154 just for a fight with Floyd Mayweather. He is number one in the world, Golovkin told ESPN Deportes.
Yes, I understand that [a loss would hurt his brand], Golovkin told The Times. I understand this decision is maybe 20 percent Canelos and 80 percent [his promoter], Golden Boy. Its business, but its not respectful of boxing. Everyone says Canelo is a great champion, the idol of Mexico. The idol for what? For boxing? No. Or as a businessman? Right now, he looks like a businessman.
Kell Brook and failed CW request:
Ive also in touch with Tom Loeffler, Gennady Golovkins manager and promoter, regarding the possibility of fighting Golovkin in a catchweight contest at 157lbs, said Hearn to the dailystar.co.uk.
https://www.************.com/2016/03...ch-weight-157/
I think hes too small, Golovkin said when asked by Fighthype.com if he would be willing to fight Brook at a catch-weight of 157lbs. My focus is on 160 middleweight division. Kell Brook and evergbody are just trash talking. If hes ready, of course, Ill fight Canelo because hes middleweight champion. My focus is on middleweight division and the belts in the middleweight division. I dont feel Im the next [Mike Tyson]. Too much. Im Triple G, Gennady Golovkin.
https://www.************.com/2016/04/208692/
"I just said to Tom Loeffler that Kell would fight Golovkin at 156, 157-pounds. And he said 'well, I don't know if we'll go below 160.' And I said 'well I'm telling you, I mean it, he will do it.' I think they have plans to stay at 160, but Kell will fight him."
On Cotto and catchweight:
"My focus is at 160 right now. I want a unification fight," Golovkin said. "For me, it's very important, who's the best in the middleweight division? Who are the champions right now? A lot of champions. Miguel Cotto, Peter Quillin, Sam Soliman. Guys, you need show? You need amazing show? Just call me. I'll stay here. I'm ready for everybody."
Asked to name the fighter he wants to face first, Golovkin was clear. "Miguel Cotto. 100%, I respect him, I respect his style. This is the biggest fight for everybody. For TV, for my fans, for everybody. For boxing."
"I'll tell you the difference. Miguel has received a lot of criticism for requiring these different catch-weights. When he fought Sergio Martinez...Sergio was not obligated to fight him so Sergio agreed to 159-pounds. Then when Daniele Geale agreed to take the fight at 157-pounds, he voluntarily agreed to that. Now that they've negotiated 155-pounds [for Canelo], they both voluntarily agreed to it," Loeffler explained to BoxingScene.com.
"But when you have a mandate, and you have to defend the middleweight title at the middleweight limit, then as far as the weight is concerned, from our perspective, there is no reason to negotiate the weight. We can negotiate a lot of the other factors or we can go to a purse bid."
On Ward:
GGG is now clearly the A side yet Ward still would want to dictate terms, which makes no sense, Loeffler said. GGG would fight Ward on a 50-50 basis, the best 160-pounder versus the best 168-pounder (at) 164 (and) a 50-50 split on all proceeds. But it seems like Ward needs more tune-up fights.
https://www.************.com/2015/07...-basis-at-164/
Ward wants to fight Golovkin, and he wants to fight next, but it wont happen at 164-pounds. By accepting 168 with Carl Froch and Chavez Jr., but then demanding 164 with Ward its their way of saying, we dont want to fight Andre Ward, the source revealed to Boxing Scene.https://www.frontproofmedia.com/boxi...a-boxing-voice
"Little G' turned down an official fight with us," Ward told the reporter. "The reality is for all the talk ... the proof is in the pudding. I have an email right now that shows we gave them what they want ... 50/50 ... and the man -- the promoter --turned it down, said maybe 2017."
Quickly after the video was posted, Golovkin's Los Angeles-based promoter Tom Loeffler called The Times to refute that version of events, stressing he wanted to clarify the "context" of his rejection.
Loeffler said the email from an official of Ward's promoter, Roc Nation Sports, extends a 50/50 purse-split offer to fight in 2016 after each fighter took one fight earlier in the year.
"It would've been a bad deal to take," Loeffler said.
"If the pay-per-view for the Lemieux fight is what we think it should be, Gennady would deserve more than 50% against Ward, considering Ward has barely fought outside of California," Loeffler said. "So it's unreasonable to ask us to commit to that right now."
Loeffler said his emailed reply to Ward's camp was that if Ward was still at 168 pounds in early 2017, Golovkin would be pleased to consider the bout at that point.
There are your sources. Again, Gennady is a fun fighter but he clearly ducked a lot of fights from 2015 onward. A shame, but every fighter goes through this sort of thing.Comment
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Not quite accurate, man. He was 30 when he was finally allowed to restart his career in the US after a lengthy legal battle with his former promoter. That wasn't choice. It took until about 2015 until he was even making himself the kind of purses than might attract decent opposition and by that time there were pretty much no big names in the division to fight... Maravilla was done, and besides the Cotto / Canelo / Maravilla triangle had been planned as early as 2013 (before Golovkin even had much of a US presence) by the WBC - why on earth would any of three - or the WBC risk the paydays by taking a fight against Golovkin before that business was taken care of? Ain't about guys being 'afraid' of GGG as some idiots would have it merely that he wasn't a big enough draw for the threat he represented.
Funny thing is some folk simultaneously call him stuff like Mr 97K and (justifiably) rubbish his resume without seeming to consider that the one is the direct result of the other. Despite HBOs marketing campaign, they never really brought enough money from their diminishing war chest to make it worth any of the significant names around his weight fighting him.
Simplest reading of the situation is that Golovkin simply started too late with the wrong promotional team and in the wrong division to ever build up a good resume in the US. **** happens, man... most fighters ain't lucky enough to get picked up by a major promoter at a young age and groomed from the start to be a star. Golovkin is what happens when a good fighter just doesn't get good opportunities. Sure - maybe - he could have tried harder for one or two guys.. Lara maybe, but nothing that would have made his resume significantly better reading. I'm fairly sure Cotto would never have fought him with the Canelo fight long planned, but this can't be proven, in fact there's a case to be made that The WBC mandated Golovkin with the intent of pushing Cotto into the Canelo fight if he looked like dawdling.
Could the Canelo fight have been made earlier - perhaps 2016 if Golovkin had said he was willing to go to 155? Maybe.. we'll never know, but to my knowledge there has never been another case when an incumbent champion had been asked to give up so much weight to defend his titles... besides. I think history has shown that Golovkin was probably very wise not to offer that fight at that weight.Last edited by Citizen Koba; 12-20-2018, 12:31 PM.Comment
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This is why people don't like Gennady - his fans like YOU.
Let's break it down for you...in basic, simple, small words.
This entire paragraph is essentially saying:
Gennady had a bad contract which kind of kept him from having the career he could've or would've. He was contractually bound to Germany until he was 30-31 years old. This entire paragraph is SPECULATION as there are NO SOURCES. Typical GGGirl posturing...
In this paragraph you blame HBO for not marketing GGG soon enough and that it is HBO's fault for GGG not getting any big fights sooner in his career. More GGGirl posturing, defending the holy Khazakh scrotum!
This is all true. You don't necessarily need sources here because you are generally speaking and it's largely common knowledge which can be supported by the established stars today (Canelo with GBP, AJ with Hearn/DAZN, Manny with TR, etc.) as well as budding stars (like Ryan Garcia or Diego DLH having GBP backing him - and if you remember failed projects like Victor Ortiz with GBP)
In this paragraph you simply ignore countless fights that could've been made and received large amounts of press:
- Canelo (and potentially Cotto) at 155: Gennady refused catchweight
- Andre Ward at 168 (Gennady originally challenged him at SMW): Gennady changed his stance and required his own catchweight which Ward refused
- Dervenchenko after Canelo rematch fell through
- Andrade after Canelo rematch fell through
- Erislandy Lara at any point in his career
- BJS which was reportedly a done deal until Gennady withdrew and later fought Canelo in their rematch instead
- Kell Brook at 157: Gennady refused the catchweight
Gennady has, literally, 5 world champion opponents (past, current, future) in 40 professional fights during an era where there are 4+ champions per weight class. If you don't understand how astronomically bad that is than you shouldn't be on these boards...
This is the part I am trying to get you to understand:
Wrong. Golovkin is what happens when a good fighter just doesn't TAKE good opportunities.
Canelo won the title at 155. Why would it matter at which weight it happened at? Gennady was pushing 35 years old...he NEEDED these types of opportunities to fast-track toward stardom. He passed on every meaningful fight over contradictions about catchweights, complained about judging and in-fact hand-picked judges for the Canelo rematch...and then complained about the judges he chose...
No clue what you're talking about. Fighters who dare to be great are given maximum credit. At no point in Gennady's career did he dare to be great.
5 world champion opponents in 40 professional fights in an era with 4+ champions per weight class. And he passed up on adding another T E N (10) world champion opponents. That is horrific by any fan's standardsComment
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Sure. The contractual issues with Universum are a matter of record.
https://www.******.com/499961-gym-no...ovkin-sparred/
RingTV (published in 2011 - though in the event he wasn't finally cleared to fight in the US until mid 2012 I think)He won’t be able to fight in the U.S. or on American TV until he resolves his contractual dispute with Germany-based Universum, which probably won’t happen until after November (when he says his contract expires), but ‘Superman’ is going to be worth watching whenever ESPN, Showtime or HBO discovers him. Mark my words.
It's also been confirmed by Arum that he was approached during this period and he declined due to GGGs ongoing legal issues. Beyond that what?.. You think he didn't dare to be as great as he could have been and you may be right. You think that the fights he got weren't to do with HBO's budget constraints? Who do you think was paying for his fights (and, at that stage, selecting them, for that matter)? You think maybe he paid his opponents out of his own pocket but just wasn't generous enough? Umm. What else? Oh yeah... sure. If he had of fought Ward he would almost certainly have lost. I never said he was all time world beater anyway, merely the best middleweight in the time he was fighting. It's you that seems to think I'm selling him as something he isn't. I'm merely pointing out that much of the criticism leveled at his career is a result of having a late start and a small time promoter with no stable.
And I agree. Dude should have taken BJS and Derevyanchenko (though there's complexities there - and anyway neither Derevyanchenko nor, say Andrade were either more accomplished or better regarded than Macklin or Murray were at the time he fought them and look how those victories are viewed now), but what's conveniently ignored is that even when fighters have the best and most powerful promoters in the world and are in divisions replete with big names, they can still be sitting on the shelf for a year or two between big fights.
Golovkin had a window roughly between early 2015 and late 2016 after he became big enough to get guys interested yet before the Canelo fights became the absolute focus of career - how many 'big' fights can you seriously expect to have happened in that time even with the best promotion in the world. And the 'big' fights that didn't happen despite Golovkin trying to make 'em are a matter of record (and that ain't to blame the other guys either, it's boxing, man, and we've seen over and over that for whatever reason, fights just don't happen). Simple fact is that even with the best career and promoter in the world - which Golovkin's ain't - there always gonna be half a dozen or a dozen names you can bring up to say 'he coulda fought that dude' cos there's always more opponents than opportunities to fight 'em.
There's Sturm, Pirog, Froch, a number of other samller but at the time respected names like Barker, lee and N'Dam. You want to think Cotto would have faced Golovkin when he had the Canelo fight lined up that's on you , man. Perhaps Golovkin could have made himself look better by saying that he'd go down to 157 or something, but it's my belief that fight wouldn't have happened anyway.. not because Cotto wouldn't have been willing, but because it would have been ******.
I'm wondering if you've reserved the same level of vitriol for every other fighter who doesn't take the biggest risks possible. This **** really seems to make you angry, man. All I'm saying is that promotional issues played a part in Golovkin's weak resume, to which you've essentially agreed. Why does acknowledging that seem so difficult? Dude ain't a fraud... worst that can really be said is that he's a good fighter that didn't take enough risks, but he's hardly the first and won't be the last. You gonna get this annoyed with all the other fighters who don't push for the hardest fight available every time? Cos .. y'know... There's a few of 'em. We gonna see you getting all mad with other fighters cos they didn't drop down to 1Lb above the bottom of their divisional limit? Cos they didn't go up to face a #1 p4per even though there was a financially more lucrative option potentially available at their own weight? Dudes like Mikey going to fight Spence and Dawson coming down to fight Dre can be applauded, but you gonna start telling us that the vast majority who don't do things like that are to be pilloried?
And Canelo... again that fight might or might not have happened. Certainly the weight wasn't the reason GBP and Canelo gave for the fight not happening in 2016 so why the assumption that it would have done if Golovkin had have agreed to a lower weight? Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't (though for the record I have said Golovkin should have been willing to have come down to 157 - and maybe he would if negotiations had progressed that far) but it's really all speculation.
It's been my observation - which has been more or less overtly acknowledged by many posters, many times - that much of the venom levelled at Golovkin is the direct result of some of his fanbase having levelled much the same criticism at other, more accomplished fighters. And I can only imagine your upset at a fighter whose only crime is that 'maybe he could have tried harder' (to get fights that may or may not have happened anyway) is something to do with this. Now I can't speak for anyone else, but I ain't one of those dudes that shat on your favourite guy's career and to me it seems your annoyance with this dude is just a bit weird, so I'll leave you to it.
Solstice greetings, man.
EDIT: And what's this 'GGGirls' and 'scrotums' rubbish, man? I've spoken to you on other matters and you're better than that.
Oh. And just in case you think that my posting on thread means I'm in support of the TS and agreed with the Artorias punch count BS it doesn't. I ain't even watched that video. I'm not a big fan of (the poster) Robbie Barrett's but on this he's **** on. Artorias is heavily biased and ain't to be taken seriously.Last edited by Citizen Koba; 12-21-2018, 04:37 AM.Comment
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