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Wilder was an underdog against Stiverne, Ortiz, and is an slight underdog against Fury. What do all three have in common? They were much more skilled than Wilder. If Wilder is to beat Fury, I think it will be time for us to admit that Power trumps skill in the HW division. Anybody else agree?
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fury is a dog in las vegas, no sutre where you are getting your props.
prime fury beats wilder. i doubt wilder puts a big punch on him in 2015. he loses on the cards, it's the only way the fight goes if wilder doens't get lucky. but fury isn't prime, he actually looked like the layoff had a massive effect and that he could use another year of activity. he may well get stopped. speed, length, and power are not what you want to see when you are not sharp and need time in the ring. those three things can spell disaster when you put them together. only rub is accuracy. wilder is not particyarly accurate for a can't miss puncher, and fury is going to be at length and shifty. -
If memory serves, he was slightly favored against Stiverne and Ortiz.
The thing about the HW division is that power has a much greater consequence than other divisions. You can see this as you go up the weight scale. I remember Andre Ward talking about it when he was moving up to LHW. When the power becomes as crushing as it is in the HW div, it makes or breaks champions.Comment
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The application of that power is a skill though.Comment
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That’s true.
It’s the speed with Wilder anyway.
If he was slow and unathletic he wouldn’t be an Olympic medalist and he certainly wouldn’t be a world champion.
But yeah I agree with Red Foxx power gains significance up the weights you go because really there must be a generation of boxing fans brought up on 147 pounders being the top division. Knockouts between the top fighters aren’t that common there and get less common the lower you go down the divisions between guys at the top level.
Carl Frampton for example absolutely will not stop Josh Warrington.
LSC and Frampton will never stop each other.
By contrast, I believe AJ vs Wilder ends in a stoppage every time either way.Comment
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Height has been a huge factor in the HW division for a while now. Wilder had the height, leverage, & length against Stiverne & Ortiz; with Fury he wont have all those luxuaries.
With that said, I think Wilder wins bcuz of Furys layoff, weight gain, & coke hiatus. If this were 3yrs ago we'd see a true skill vs power match at a more even level.Comment
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Disagree. Power CAN beat skill. But by no means is power winning the day more than skill. Although its a easy claim that power wins more fights at HW than in any other division cuz it definitely allows for more variance in the skill part of a fight.
My mfer Chris Byrd woulda been 0-47 instead of 41-5-1 if that was true as he boxed at the beginning of this era of big, powerful HW & was at a power & size disadvantage vs every single opponent more or less.Comment
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Wilder has 2 advantages and it's not just power.
it's power and speed. he's noticeably faster than Fury. Those 2 advantages are all you need to win.Comment
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i havnt seen any fury skill post comeback, yeah he had that jerky motion that bamboozled a gun shy vlad, vlad had problems throwing against eddie chambers and only ko'ed him if i remember when his coach started shouting at him to get this guy outa here
even the fury version v wlad id say wilder still beats him but with a lot of effort, may even go to the cards and they rob fury would have been most likelyComment
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The consequences are more dire but the pacing, reflexes, fleetness of foot, etc is all different across all divisions and the skills needed for them also differ. For example, with some big heavyweights you sometimes see a lot of hand jostling (look at Wlad or Fury for example) that you will almost never see in lower weight classes.
Same way you dont see many body shot knockdowns let alone knockouts at the top level in HW due to the dire consequences. It’s all a different game everywhere.
Skill is skill, and avoiding their power in an essential jousting match to get yours in is also a skill. Setting up that ONE opportunity to land the one punch you need is a skill, even if you’ll have to take 7 rounds to set it up. It’s why an unusual puncher like Bailey at welter didnt excel. You still have to land.
Stiverne, etc (who wasnt more skilled) all knew what the plan was from Wilder — Land the bomb...and they did not have enough skill to keep it from happening.
In boxing (not just the hw division) a one second lapse in skill/concentration is dire. Just off the top, all the way from Rungvisai, Inoue, Rigo/Dogboe, Frampton/Leo/GRJ, Tank, Mikey, Prograis, Spence, Hurd, Canelo, Smith, Adonis, Usyk, Wilder/AJ... at the top you are NEVER safe.
Even at HW almost all fights are won with skills and the application of those skills...whether your skill is weaving an opportunity to land one shot over a span of time...or landing body shots and staying in the fights to snowball damage, etc. the sweet science is sweet no matter the division.Comment
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