Comments Thread For: Dmitry Bivol Boxes Past Jean Pascal To Win Decision

[KaidouTheBeast]

Pascal 5 years younger will beat bivol convincingly...bivol was too carefull...

[Boxing Logic]

119-111 is a fair card.

Bivol seemed way too content to just win a decision.

That's not how I saw it. Bivol is just fighting at the wrong weight if he wants to be a light heavyweight. 181 in the ring is a large middleweight or a small/avg super middleweight. Bivol was fighting someone who weighed an entire division heavier than him, and who was loading up huge right hand counters. Bivol still hit him with the kitchen sink, but it did nothing due to the weight advantage. Very hard to knock out someone a full weight class heavier than you who is built like a mound of muscle. Even end-of-prime Kovalev never had Pascal out, he just TKO'd him. In the rematch Pascal was not even hurt at the time, his corner just stopped it between rounds.

Bivol threw everything at Pascal when he had the chance, at one point he threw like a 30 punch combination, so how can we say he was content to go to decision? He kept coming forward as well. Just after a certain point, Pascal was too big for Bivol to get out, and Bivol had to be careful as Pascal's size grew in effect late in the fight if not in actuality, at least in potential to cause issues. Bivol had to be careful at the end of 36 minutes of combat, body fatigued, with someone a weight class bigger than him winging bombs. It is what it is. But Bivol definitely did all he could, safely, and a little bit more (which is why he got caught), to get the KO. Let's not take that away from him. He's just fighting at the wrong weight in the ring for light heavyweight.

[Santa_]

i think beterbiev beats bivol

[repsa]

Very disappointed in Bivol .

[chimichanga2]

real talk my ass ROFL.

[aboutfkntime]

Stop with your inane Ward worship and racist innuendo.

Kovalev proved to be a better fighter than Andre Ward period. Just like ggg proved better than Canelo, with just politics giving them victories to justify the USA boxing establishment. Kovalev was overrated and he made Ward look like the overrated fraud we all knew he was.

just wow

from their two matches, it was clearly obvious Ward is the better fighter

same with Canelo/Golovkin

even after the first fight, regardless as to who you thought won..... it was clearly obvious that Canelo is the more-skilled more well-rounded fighter

what the fcuk are you guys watching when you watch boxing ?

and why would you say what you just said ?

[KING5TWENTY]

Anyone who says ggg and kovalev are better fighters then Ward and Canelo are clearly racist.

[Dasmius Shinobi]

Stop with your inane Ward worship and racist innuendo.

Kovalev proved to be a better fighter than Andre Ward period. Just like ggg proved better than Canelo, with just politics giving them victories to justify the USA boxing establishment. Kovalev was overrated and he made Ward look like the overrated fraud we all knew he was.

just wow

from their two matches, it was clearly obvious Ward is the better fighter

same with Canelo/Golovkin

even after the first fight, regardless as to who you thought won..... it was clearly obvious that Canelo is the more-skilled more well-rounded fighter

what the fcuk are you guys watching when you watch boxing ?

and why would you say what you just said ?

I am going to answer that to you, they use the compubox number as a excuse to select the winner. They don't know there are more important aspects in boxing the judges see in fights.

[Boxing Logic]

Anyone who says ggg and kovalev are better fighters then Ward and Canelo are clearly racist.

Past prime GGG outstalked Canelo the first fight, outboxed Canelo the second fight without GGG's back touching the ropes once all night. GGG even well past his prime, missing all his best tools from his prime (his hand speed, his power, his stamina, even his punch resistance has declined with age as shown by Vanes hurting him with a jab), was still able to outbox Canelo in multiple styles, so clearly, prime for prime, it's not even close, GGG is better all around. Prime Canelo has slightly faster hands than prime GGG, although nothing like the difference that we see now, and that's it. That's Canelo's one advantage prime for prime. That and head movement but GGG makes up for that with a much better guard and much better footwork and legs in general, so overall defense still goes to GGG or is even on Canelo's best day.

As for Kovalev-Ward, it's a similar story. Kovalev was drunk and past prime, yet still even Ward fans would admit boxed Ward even in their first fight, while everyone who is just a boxing fan would say Kovalev did better than box him even. So if past prime Kovalev is the equal of prime Ward, then obviously prime Kovalev is better than prime Ward. I have no idea why you would call that racism when it's just logical. It's obvious logic, nothing to do with race. As for their second fight, that doesn't count for anything because the "story of the fight" or rather, more accurately, the natural evolution of the fight was altered so early, so regularly, and so significantly by a clearly one-sided referee that there are zero conclusions anyone can draw from that fight other than that Kovalev is way past prime and his stamina gets shot to hell after only a few low blows (all the more reason why rules should be enforced strictly, so that the competition can be about who is better at the sport, and not how well somebody who is already past prime can overcome being blatantly cheated against).

It's like trying to study lions in their natural habitat or something, but then an alien ship drops down into their habitat and gives them alien technology or some ****. At that point, you can no longer draw any conclusions about lions in their natural habitats because it's not natural anymore, the experiment has been altered by an outside influence. Well, that's what the referee did, he was an outside influence that changed the course of that fight, rendering that fight meaningless. He also changed the ending of the fight as well. The referee had his hands in every aspect of that fight. But before the stoppage, which was bogus, the fight was basically EVEN on the official judges cards "official" my ass, officially blind and/or corrupt, and most fans had Kovalev ahead.

At worst, it was another very close fight. So if past prime Kovalev fights close with prime Ward, whichever way you scored it they were always close fights and close rounds, then obviously prime Kovalev was better. That is, again, just obvious. So to me, pointing out the obvious is not racist at all. It's when you try to IGNORE the obvious that one has to start wondering what your motives are. Why would you ignore something that is obvious? Why do the obvious logical conclusion bother you so much? Why would you rather make up something false and call other people names to defend your made up reality than simply acknowledge the obvious?

I think either racism, or some other type of bias, is what causes people to IGNORE obvious logic. Acknowledging obvious logic, that's just being logical, being objective, being fair. That's not racist. I'm not saying you're racist, I don't know what your reasons are, but you are the one trying to deflect from the obvious, not me or anyone else saying Kovalev > Ward and GGG > Canelo, so that makes you the one with some sort of bias or agenda, not me or anyone else agreeing with me on this.

[Boxing Logic]

Stop with your inane Ward worship and racist innuendo.

Kovalev proved to be a better fighter than Andre Ward period. Just like ggg proved better than Canelo, with just politics giving them victories to justify the USA boxing establishment. Kovalev was overrated and he made Ward look like the overrated fraud we all knew he was.

Well said. I wont say Ward was a fraud because he was talented, but definitely protected and overhyped. Always fought the same slower orthodox euro style opponents. Kovalev was the only really explosive dynamic one with underrated skill, an elite jab, etc, but that fight wasn't made until everyone on the inside knew about Kovalev's training and lifestyle issues and knew he was having trouble even making it through sparring sessions in the gym, due to his stamina, so there was no way they thought he was much risk to Ward anymore at that point. That's why Ward's team was so ****y predicting Ward would stop Kovalev in their first fight, even though Ward could not even stop Alexander Brand. They saw how badly Kovalev gassed the fight before, against Chilemba. He was already past prime, and yet, he still beat Ward in my opinion, so that goes to show, Ward was either a little overrated, or maybe styles make fights. But Kovalev was so past it by that point in terms of his stamina especially, and it's not like Kovalev is a good inside fighter or his style is difficult for Ward, in fact I believe he was their hand picked style at 175 over Stevenson due to the fact Kovalev was another slower (by that point), orthodox, euro style guy, similar to Kessler at 168, while Stevenson was a faster, much more prime at that point despite being older, athletic southpaw boxer puncher, just like the ones Ward avoided at 168 in Bute and Dirrell (could switch either way).

So for that reason, I really do think Ward was a little overrated. Ward had an elite jab, basically elite hand speed at 175, and very good defense, but his power and punch selection were average, his chin was above average but not elite, his punch output was awful, his footwork was pretty basic, and as a result of many of these not-elite areas of his game, he struggled at the top level sometimes to win rounds with clean boxing, so he would unfortunately make the CHOICE to resort to holding, fouling, and cheating at times, especially the only time he fought something even halfway close to a prime elite opponent with both accuracy and power in Kovalev.

So that is to say, Ward is underrated in some ways, overrated in other ways, but he definitely didn't legitimately beat prime Kovalev in my opinion, or Kovalev at all, and he's never legitimately beaten an elite prime fighter in my opinion or even faced one, so for that reason especially, I could never call him elite. Kovalev, due to his early decline, never beat an elite prime opponent either, but the reason I say he was better in his prime than Ward was because he was much more dominant over similar level opponents at the time than Ward was... I think in skills we saw they were on the same level, just with different styles and Ward relying more on cheating to reach that level while Kovalev could do it clean, but then there was one huge separating factor which was Kovalev's power. That's what allowed him to dominate more. Both of them would win every round vs guys on the level of Nathan Cleverley, at least Im guessing Ward would, but the difference is, Kovalev would also knock them down and stop them.

And then the other reason is just simply that Kovalev was way past his prime already when he fought Ward, while Ward looked to me in the best shape of his career, and yet Kovalev still had so much success against him, referee bull**** aside. That tells me just logically, if Kovalev was also in the best shape of his life, his fights vs Ward would not have even been close. The only reason Ward found any success in either of their fights was Kovalev gassing out. Give Kovalev his prime gas tank, or any reasonable gas tank from any other fighter Ward fought like Froch or Bika or Barrera or whoever, and Kovalev beats him big not just beats him (which he already did anyway imo). But when you only have 3 rounds of stamina in you, it's going to be hard to beat Ryan Garcia over 12 rounds let alone Ward. And yet somehow Kovalev still did it which really just proves it to me even more as much as it can ever be at this point, prime Kovalev vs prime Ward, Kovalev wins clearly if not dominantly.