Tweet
I wrote this somewhere else some time ago (around January/February) and chickened out of posting it here. But I thought as it's a quiet week it might now get some discussion going.
When I wrote this Hopkins hadn't given his superb retirement performance against Tarver, and Joe Blow was still being talked about on US forums as a "scared bum who's never fought anyone and will get KTFO in two rounds."
First of all, I like America and I like Americans. But it's undeniable that a sizeable proportion of Americans on boxing forums talk... well, let's just say they're supseptible to being misinformed.
There are some great guys out there, but there'll still come a time when you'll express an opinion on a boxer and get accused of saying so because of your race/nationality.
Now, before I came onto boxing forums, I had simply no expectation that my right to express an opinion would be denied, or that the validity of my opinion would be tarnished, simply because I lived on a different continent to somebody else. That concept was totally beyond me, yet it happens all the time. And strangely, the only race I've ever seen do this are Americans. (Okay, sometimes Canadians will, but who cares about them, right?
)
There are three American boxers in particular I dislike: Roy Jones (who I actually love, but his career is crap), Floyd Mayweather and The Slop. Now whenever I say this, someone will always counter "oh, but you say that because you're British/European". Like an entire ****ing continent has some generic mindset like the Midwich Cuckoos or some such thing.
)
Oddly, I love LOADS of American boxers.... Ali, Tyson, Ray Robinson, Holyfield, Frazier (yeah, I'm a heavyweight junkie)... but when I say THAT, my race is never brought into the conversation.
But the bottom line is this... with few notable exceptions, the money is in America right now. Certainly, in terms of TELEVISION, then America is where the money is. (Hatton fans who talk about him selling out MEN Arena might remember Frank Warren saying for a big opponent he needed US TV).
So, it stands to logical reason that for US TV to appeal most to its audience it should do its best to boost the profile of American boxers. Hey, that’s just good business, right? People want to see their own guys on the TV (I like to think I’m neutral, but in the main...) Just look at the largest heavyweight bout that’s coming up in April. Two Americans going at it for the WBC Championship of the world. Ostensibly, I’ve got no problem at all with Toney – the guy has outrageous talent and is a soundbite on legs. But the bottom line is, he didn’t win the right to fight for the title... Maskaev did. If Maskaev had a larger fanbase or was born in the States I imagine he’d have got his shot. (And as he’d already KOed his opponent the first time, it was a good shot, right?)
So... Rahman. A mediocre talent with a big punch and iffy chin, after beating Lewis with a lucky punch, he went into a losing streak of three losses and a draw... one of the losses against Holyfield in a time when EVERYBODY was beating Evander Holyfield, and another to John Ruiz. That’s John Ruiz.
His route back to contention after losing to John Ruiz? A DECISION over Alfred Cole and KO wins over Mario Cawley, Rob Calloway, Terrence Lewis and Kali Meehan. Followed by a points victory over Monte Barrett in the most boring fight it’s ever been my privilege to sit through. I ask you this... do you think if Rahman WASN’T American he’d be getting a shot? (I know he’s technically WBC champ but that’s through good fortune, not for what he did in the ring). Rahman probably isn’t even the best heavyweight in Florida, let alone the world.
So boxing has more than its proportionate share of American fighters. That’s no bad thing in itself... a lot of them are very good. (Though it does make you wonder what would happen if a boxing initiative program was adopted in Africa, a country where you would expect stronger fighters to come from, but a country so generally poor that few are inspired to compete on the world stage).
But boxing is a BUSINESS, first and foremost. It’s the job of boxing media – HBO, Showtime, even The Ring (which claims to be neutral, but has to sell itself on telling us that boxing is exciting and entertaining) – have to "sell" us fighters. So a bonus I feel I have over US fans is that I don’t have to sit through HBO promos where Larry Merchant fellates Floyd Mayweather for going on his "Costa Zoo’s Sloppy Seconds World Tour" or The Best Damn Boxing Show Period! Tells Bernard Hopkins he’s a P4P great.
All this is fine and well, it’s all part of the hype, and I’d never suggest that all Americans are so gullible they fall for it. (I once had a conversation with an American who believed that all Europeans were scared to fight Americans.... like it was a genetic trait or something... bizarre) But the average age range of American posters out there on the boxing forums seems to be lower as well, which – while a lot of younger posters are very knowledgeable – does also bring about the rise of the "punk kid". Now, the punk kid will get into a fight in his back yard and think it makes him the new Larry Holmes, and he’ll swallow up and regurgitate anything HBO/Boxrec will tell him.
I’ve actually seen posters suggest that Bernard Hopkins was a better middleweight than Sugar Ray Robinson... because he had a record 20 defences. (Let’s not even get into the grey area of whether it’s actually 19). Now, I personally couldn’t give a good damn about Hopkins’s record... it’s trash. Anyone who can get 20 defences against the likes of Antwon Echols and Robert Allen doesn’t necessarily equate to a boxing master. And KOing a way out of his natural division DLH (who no one gave a hope in Hell of winning the night before... the night after it was "career defining"... what, his career was defined by beating a little Mexican???) I don’t care what BoxRec might tell you, in terms of TALENT and BOXING ABILITY Bernard Hopkins was NOWHERE NEAR the class of Sugar Ray Robinson. And I say this not because I’m "European" or the rest of it. (Amusing too how HBO started to promote Hopkins as a "legendary fighter" yet dropped him like a stone when the more photogenic, less "dangerous" and lighter-skinned Jermain Taylor came along).
Here’s another one... the poster who once told me that only three people didn’t acknowledge Roy Jones Jr. was an all-time great: "haters" (What, are we in kindergarten again?), "noobs" (ditto) and "Brits". Class. The fact is, Roy Jones Jr. probably WAS an all-time great of the sport... just a shame he never proved it. A win over Hopkins doesn’t really impress me for obvious reasons, though Toney was a fine victory. But it’s a rare exception in the career of a supremely gifted athlete who spent nearly his entire career negotiating his way through the paid ranks without ever engaging in a bout that could be labelled "competitive".
And so we come to Floyd, and my rant and bile has nearly sated itself. If I say I don’t like Floyd then it’s because I’m "European". Not because he’s a classless, graceless, egotistical ******* who doesn’t fight anybody. Floyd is the living embodiment of how P4P is eating out the soul of our sport. Let’s get it straight: say what you like about P4P, quote this stat, quote that stat: the entire thing is a THEORETICAL CONCEPT... and it’s getting out of hand. Floyd is now in a position where he’s not fighting the highest contenders in his division because some journalists have extrapolated from his bouts the possibility that he would win. Jesus Christ. P4P is FUN, but whatever happened to boxers actually FIGHTING each other? Not only that, but the entire issue driving the concept is what if all the boxers in the world were the same weight class – who would be the best? FFS, Mayweather, Hatton and Cotto ARE THE SAME WEIGHT CLASS. There’s NO NEED for a "let’s imagine"... then can ACTUALLY FIGHT EACH OTHER WITH NO PROBLEM.
I’m out, I’m spent. Three things: 1. World love; 2. Don’t bring people’s nationality up in a boxing debate – if nothing else, it’s just downright ****ing RUDE; 3. Don’t believe the hype.
Peace.
When I wrote this Hopkins hadn't given his superb retirement performance against Tarver, and Joe Blow was still being talked about on US forums as a "scared bum who's never fought anyone and will get KTFO in two rounds."
First of all, I like America and I like Americans. But it's undeniable that a sizeable proportion of Americans on boxing forums talk... well, let's just say they're supseptible to being misinformed.
There are some great guys out there, but there'll still come a time when you'll express an opinion on a boxer and get accused of saying so because of your race/nationality.
Now, before I came onto boxing forums, I had simply no expectation that my right to express an opinion would be denied, or that the validity of my opinion would be tarnished, simply because I lived on a different continent to somebody else. That concept was totally beyond me, yet it happens all the time. And strangely, the only race I've ever seen do this are Americans. (Okay, sometimes Canadians will, but who cares about them, right?
)There are three American boxers in particular I dislike: Roy Jones (who I actually love, but his career is crap), Floyd Mayweather and The Slop. Now whenever I say this, someone will always counter "oh, but you say that because you're British/European". Like an entire ****ing continent has some generic mindset like the Midwich Cuckoos or some such thing.
)Oddly, I love LOADS of American boxers.... Ali, Tyson, Ray Robinson, Holyfield, Frazier (yeah, I'm a heavyweight junkie)... but when I say THAT, my race is never brought into the conversation.
But the bottom line is this... with few notable exceptions, the money is in America right now. Certainly, in terms of TELEVISION, then America is where the money is. (Hatton fans who talk about him selling out MEN Arena might remember Frank Warren saying for a big opponent he needed US TV).
So, it stands to logical reason that for US TV to appeal most to its audience it should do its best to boost the profile of American boxers. Hey, that’s just good business, right? People want to see their own guys on the TV (I like to think I’m neutral, but in the main...) Just look at the largest heavyweight bout that’s coming up in April. Two Americans going at it for the WBC Championship of the world. Ostensibly, I’ve got no problem at all with Toney – the guy has outrageous talent and is a soundbite on legs. But the bottom line is, he didn’t win the right to fight for the title... Maskaev did. If Maskaev had a larger fanbase or was born in the States I imagine he’d have got his shot. (And as he’d already KOed his opponent the first time, it was a good shot, right?)
So... Rahman. A mediocre talent with a big punch and iffy chin, after beating Lewis with a lucky punch, he went into a losing streak of three losses and a draw... one of the losses against Holyfield in a time when EVERYBODY was beating Evander Holyfield, and another to John Ruiz. That’s John Ruiz.
His route back to contention after losing to John Ruiz? A DECISION over Alfred Cole and KO wins over Mario Cawley, Rob Calloway, Terrence Lewis and Kali Meehan. Followed by a points victory over Monte Barrett in the most boring fight it’s ever been my privilege to sit through. I ask you this... do you think if Rahman WASN’T American he’d be getting a shot? (I know he’s technically WBC champ but that’s through good fortune, not for what he did in the ring). Rahman probably isn’t even the best heavyweight in Florida, let alone the world.
So boxing has more than its proportionate share of American fighters. That’s no bad thing in itself... a lot of them are very good. (Though it does make you wonder what would happen if a boxing initiative program was adopted in Africa, a country where you would expect stronger fighters to come from, but a country so generally poor that few are inspired to compete on the world stage).
But boxing is a BUSINESS, first and foremost. It’s the job of boxing media – HBO, Showtime, even The Ring (which claims to be neutral, but has to sell itself on telling us that boxing is exciting and entertaining) – have to "sell" us fighters. So a bonus I feel I have over US fans is that I don’t have to sit through HBO promos where Larry Merchant fellates Floyd Mayweather for going on his "Costa Zoo’s Sloppy Seconds World Tour" or The Best Damn Boxing Show Period! Tells Bernard Hopkins he’s a P4P great.
All this is fine and well, it’s all part of the hype, and I’d never suggest that all Americans are so gullible they fall for it. (I once had a conversation with an American who believed that all Europeans were scared to fight Americans.... like it was a genetic trait or something... bizarre) But the average age range of American posters out there on the boxing forums seems to be lower as well, which – while a lot of younger posters are very knowledgeable – does also bring about the rise of the "punk kid". Now, the punk kid will get into a fight in his back yard and think it makes him the new Larry Holmes, and he’ll swallow up and regurgitate anything HBO/Boxrec will tell him.
I’ve actually seen posters suggest that Bernard Hopkins was a better middleweight than Sugar Ray Robinson... because he had a record 20 defences. (Let’s not even get into the grey area of whether it’s actually 19). Now, I personally couldn’t give a good damn about Hopkins’s record... it’s trash. Anyone who can get 20 defences against the likes of Antwon Echols and Robert Allen doesn’t necessarily equate to a boxing master. And KOing a way out of his natural division DLH (who no one gave a hope in Hell of winning the night before... the night after it was "career defining"... what, his career was defined by beating a little Mexican???) I don’t care what BoxRec might tell you, in terms of TALENT and BOXING ABILITY Bernard Hopkins was NOWHERE NEAR the class of Sugar Ray Robinson. And I say this not because I’m "European" or the rest of it. (Amusing too how HBO started to promote Hopkins as a "legendary fighter" yet dropped him like a stone when the more photogenic, less "dangerous" and lighter-skinned Jermain Taylor came along).
Here’s another one... the poster who once told me that only three people didn’t acknowledge Roy Jones Jr. was an all-time great: "haters" (What, are we in kindergarten again?), "noobs" (ditto) and "Brits". Class. The fact is, Roy Jones Jr. probably WAS an all-time great of the sport... just a shame he never proved it. A win over Hopkins doesn’t really impress me for obvious reasons, though Toney was a fine victory. But it’s a rare exception in the career of a supremely gifted athlete who spent nearly his entire career negotiating his way through the paid ranks without ever engaging in a bout that could be labelled "competitive".
And so we come to Floyd, and my rant and bile has nearly sated itself. If I say I don’t like Floyd then it’s because I’m "European". Not because he’s a classless, graceless, egotistical ******* who doesn’t fight anybody. Floyd is the living embodiment of how P4P is eating out the soul of our sport. Let’s get it straight: say what you like about P4P, quote this stat, quote that stat: the entire thing is a THEORETICAL CONCEPT... and it’s getting out of hand. Floyd is now in a position where he’s not fighting the highest contenders in his division because some journalists have extrapolated from his bouts the possibility that he would win. Jesus Christ. P4P is FUN, but whatever happened to boxers actually FIGHTING each other? Not only that, but the entire issue driving the concept is what if all the boxers in the world were the same weight class – who would be the best? FFS, Mayweather, Hatton and Cotto ARE THE SAME WEIGHT CLASS. There’s NO NEED for a "let’s imagine"... then can ACTUALLY FIGHT EACH OTHER WITH NO PROBLEM.
I’m out, I’m spent. Three things: 1. World love; 2. Don’t bring people’s nationality up in a boxing debate – if nothing else, it’s just downright ****ing RUDE; 3. Don’t believe the hype.
Peace.
Comment