Comments Thread For: Roach Says a Prime Pacquiao 'Walks Through' Everyone at 147

[Mzembe]

Margarito was avoided by who? Floyd? That's about it. Williams had already beaten him and he got caught cheating not long after so it's possible he just ******. Mosley was 38 and had been out the ring for about 18 months in addition to that he'd only won about half his fights the last 8 years coming into the Floyd fight. He was washed up. What did he do in his next fight? Get a draw with Sergio Mora.

I stopped reading at the Pacquaio not being great. Too long winded and sounds like a fanboy and a hater. I actually disliked Pacquaio his whole career and attended the Marquez fights in person. Pacquaio is a great fighter without question and in what planet was the first Barrera fight close? It's a fact Mayweather has never entered the ring as good as that Barrera or the Marquez Pacquaio fought between 2004-2008. Marquez had barely left 126 and had only had two fights at 135 and then jumped up to 147 over night. No gradual buildup. For perspective when Floyd was fighting Oscar at 154, Marquez had his first fight above 126. 12 months prior they were three weight classes apart. It's irrelevant what would happen if they are the same size because it's mythical what's important is that the fight mattered not one bit because of the disparity in weight and size. Marquez by 2012 had a little more time to get up to the weight and he was fighting a guy from the same weight classes in Pacquaio. Marquez being a 126 pounder until he was 33 and Manny being at 130 until he was around 30 at the same age Floyd was at 154.

Also thought I'd add this. You don't think Pacquaio is great because of difficult fights with Barrera and Marquez, both of whom are great. That's cool. But I think you are diminishing the quality for Marquez and Barrera too. Like I said Marquez and Pacquaio are the only two great boxers Floyd ever fought and you seem like you love Floyd and probably think he's TBE or close right? Well you've just admitted Floyd only ever fought one great fighter and then that opens you up further that maybe Marquez isn't great? I love Marquez, he's my all-time favorite but I think Pacquaio rates higher than him historically (though I had him 4-0 h2h) so in your estimation it's arguable/probable Floyd never even beat one great fighter? WOW. Not sure how he can be TBE if he never even fought a great fighter.

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Mosley might have been passed his prime but he got himself into lineal position by annihilating Margarito who in the eyes of many was the best WW at the time.

As for Pac, let me clarify one thing. I don't dislike him at all. PAC is a good boxer with power in both hands with exceptional speed. However, his record at 140 and 147 is really abysmal.

You seem to be a reasonable and logical person and your post is actually worth reading and let me ponder on a few things. I am not dismissing you is what I am saying.

Marquez is hands down my top three fighters of all time. I do like him a lot and my point was not to diminish him because he beat PAC or vice versa. My point and I think you misread me is that Marquez has never looked below average against any fighter but he did against Floyd. He didn't win a single round and his counter punching skills were nowhere in that fight.

This is important because Marquez and Manny are for all intent and purpose the exact same size so how is suddenly Marquez too small for Floyd yet Manny is not too small going back far to 2009 or 2010? Also, Floyd was never a 154 Ibs fighter and you know that. Floyd walks at 150 on average so Oscar and Canelo were way bigger than him. Cotto started at 140 so I don't fuss over that much that even though he did duck Floyd at 140 despite being the bigger guy.

Lastly, the mythical fights are most drawn to suggest very subjective opinions and I find myself getting drawn in them a lot but they offer a glimpse of what could potential happen based on certain intangibles. For example, there is no way in hell Pacman could have beaten Canelo in 2011 (same time Canelo fought Floyd). Pac has a lot of difficulties with pure boxers and that's why Marquez beat him. It is the same reason Floyd beat him (any version of PAC would have gotten beaten by Floyd).

Bottomline is Floyd fought all the relevant names at 147 and PAC elected not to. I am pretty sure PAC could have beaten certain names but Bob Arum was never going to make those fights and a fighter of PAC fighting guys like Brandon Rios or Mathysse or Jeff Horn or even Broner is insane. I think Broner beats PAC when they fight. Mark my words.

[Mzembe]

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yeah that's you! lmao!! go seek help my brotha. holding your anger in is not a good thing. that's how school shooters are created.

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Typical response. You have an answer for everything unrelated to boxing but ZERO response to actual FACTS.

[IceTrayDaGang]

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Typical response. You have an answer for everything unrelated to boxing but ZERO response to actual FACTS.

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facts? i see bs so i respond back with bs

[IceTrayDaGang]

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Mosley might have been passed his prime but he got himself into lineal position by annihilating Margarito who in the eyes of many was the best WW at the time.

As for Pac, let me clarify one thing. I don't dislike him at all. PAC is a good boxer with power in both hands with exceptional speed. However, his record at 140 and 147 is really abysmal.

You seem to be a reasonable and logical person and your post is actually worth reading and let me ponder on a few things. I am not dismissing you is what I am saying.

Marquez is hands down my top three fighters of all time. I do like him a lot and my point was not to diminish him because he beat PAC or vice versa. My point and I think you misread me is that Marquez has never looked below average against any fighter but he did against Floyd. He didn't win a single round and his counter punching skills were nowhere in that fight.

This is important because Marquez and Manny are for all intent and purpose the exact same size so how is suddenly Marquez too small for Floyd yet Manny is not too small going back far to 2009 or 2010? Also, Floyd was never a 154 Ibs fighter and you know that. Floyd walks at 150 on average so Oscar and Canelo were way bigger than him. Cotto started at 140 so I don't fuss over that much that even though he did duck Floyd at 140 despite being the bigger guy.

Lastly, the mythical fights are most drawn to suggest very subjective opinions and I find myself getting drawn in them a lot but they offer a glimpse of what could potential happen based on certain intangibles. For example, there is no way in hell Pacman could have beaten Canelo in 2011 (same time Canelo fought Floyd). Pac has a lot of difficulties with pure boxers and that's why Marquez beat him. It is the same reason Floyd beat him (any version of PAC would have gotten beaten by Floyd).

Bottomline is Floyd fought all the relevant names at 147 and PAC elected not to. I am pretty sure PAC could have beaten certain names but Bob Arum was never going to make those fights and a fighter of PAC fighting guys like Brandon Rios or Mathysse or Jeff Horn or even Broner is insane. I think Broner beats PAC when they fight. Mark my words.

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seriously bro. go write a book or something

[chrisJS]

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Mosley might have been passed his prime but he got himself into lineal position by annihilating Margarito who in the eyes of many was the best WW at the time.

As for Pac, let me clarify one thing. I don't dislike him at all. PAC is a good boxer with power in both hands with exceptional speed. However, his record at 140 and 147 is really abysmal.

You seem to be a reasonable and logical person and your post is actually worth reading and let me ponder on a few things. I am not dismissing you is what I am saying.

Marquez is hands down my top three fighters of all time. I do like him a lot and my point was not to diminish him because he beat PAC or vice versa. My point and I think you misread me is that Marquez has never looked below average against any fighter but he did against Floyd. He didn't win a single round and his counter punching skills were nowhere in that fight.

This is important because Marquez and Manny are for all intent and purpose the exact same size so how is suddenly Marquez too small for Floyd yet Manny is not too small going back far to 2009 or 2010? Also, Floyd was never a 154 Ibs fighter and you know that. Floyd walks at 150 on average so Oscar and Canelo were way bigger than him. Cotto started at 140 so I don't fuss over that much that even though he did duck Floyd at 140 despite being the bigger guy.

Lastly, the mythical fights are most drawn to suggest very subjective opinions and I find myself getting drawn in them a lot but they offer a glimpse of what could potential happen based on certain intangibles. For example, there is no way in hell Pacman could have beaten Canelo in 2011 (same time Canelo fought Floyd). Pac has a lot of difficulties with pure boxers and that's why Marquez beat him. It is the same reason Floyd beat him (any version of PAC would have gotten beaten by Floyd).

Bottomline is Floyd fought all the relevant names at 147 and PAC elected not to. I am pretty sure PAC could have beaten certain names but Bob Arum was never going to make those fights and a fighter of PAC fighting guys like Brandon Rios or Mathysse or Jeff Horn or even Broner is insane. I think Broner beats PAC when they fight. Mark my words.

Marquez has never been at such a size disadvantage as the one he encountered with Floyd. A natural featherweight vs. a natural welterweight based on Floyd being a welter in his 20's, Marquez being a featherweight at 33. Pacquaio was a lot smaller than Floyd too. Pacquaio also had no business at 147 he was dramatically undersized in that division just like Marquez but he didn't just jump into the level of opposition Marquez did. Marquez took the Floyd fight because he was in a cashout mode. He was very close to wanting to retire because he couldn't get a 3rd Pacquaio fight and was getting underpaid. He was getting 900k-1m for the Diaz, Katsidis, Casamayor fights and Floyd was the only fight they could pay him what they said that would when he signed. $3m plus whatever Floyd had to cough up for cheating at the weigh-in. Marquez, at that point was looking at retirement or simply winding his contract down.

I disagree that 2011 or 2013 Canelo beats Pacquaio around that time. Canelo isn't the pure boxer you are saying. He's not in Marquez' league talent or technique wise. If he was drained down to less than 154 Pacquaio would have him for breakfast. Barrera and Morales were also much better boxers than him. MUCH better. Canelo is one of the most overrated boxers of modern times. Golovkin was overrated (some said he's a bum on this site) and clearly past his best he was able to do enough for most to believe he was 2-0 against him in his physical prime. He looked clueless against Lara and only made the fight close because Lara fought scared (but still should have won). Canelo is a good fighter but he's not in the class of Marquez, Barrera, Morales and never will be. His current form is nowhere near and his ceiling isn't either. It takes just watching them fight to realize this. Marquez at 40 and undersized was better than Canelo is at 28.

Marquez in your top 3 favorites or your opinion of top 3 ever? He's my favorite fighter ever but I would probably struggle to rank him top 50 all-time. I think he's one of the best of the modern era but would place him behind Whitaker, Jones, Hopkins, Pacquaio, Mayweather, Holyfield, Chavez but ahead of the rest like Toney, Barrera, Morales, Trinidad, Calzaghe, Lewis etc;

[Mzembe]

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seriously bro. go write a book or something

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No one is talking to you. This post was directed to someone else, how you make it your business is exactly what I say about you.
You are those nosy, judgmental, ignorant neanderthals.

Let it be. Good luck to you and to you boy Pacman.

[Mzembe]

Marquez has never been at such a size disadvantage as the one he encountered with Floyd. A natural featherweight vs. a natural welterweight based on Floyd being a welter in his 20's, Marquez being a featherweight at 33. Pacquaio was a lot smaller than Floyd too. Pacquaio also had no business at 147 he was dramatically undersized in that division just like Marquez but he didn't just jump into the level of opposition Marquez did. Marquez took the Floyd fight because he was in a cashout mode. He was very close to wanting to retire because he couldn't get a 3rd Pacquaio fight and was getting underpaid. He was getting 900k-1m for the Diaz, Katsidis, Casamayor fights and Floyd was the only fight they could pay him what they said that would when he signed. $3m plus whatever Floyd had to cough up for cheating at the weigh-in. Marquez, at that point was looking at retirement or simply winding his contract down.

I disagree that 2011 or 2013 Canelo beats Pacquaio around that time. Canelo isn't the pure boxer you are saying. He's not in Marquez' league talent or technique wise. If he was drained down to less than 154 Pacquaio would have him for breakfast. Barrera and Morales were also much better boxers than him. MUCH better. Canelo is one of the most overrated boxers of modern times. Golovkin was overrated (some said he's a bum on this site) and clearly past his best he was able to do enough for most to believe he was 2-0 against him in his physical prime. He looked clueless against Lara and only made the fight close because Lara fought scared (but still should have won). Canelo is a good fighter but he's not in the class of Marquez, Barrera, Morales and never will be. His current form is nowhere near and his ceiling isn't either. It takes just watching them fight to realize this. Marquez at 40 and undersized was better than Canelo is at 28.

Marquez in your top 3 favorites or your opinion of top 3 ever? He's my favorite fighter ever but I would probably struggle to rank him top 50 all-time. I think he's one of the best of the modern era but would place him behind Whitaker, Jones, Hopkins, Pacquaio, Mayweather, Holyfield, Chavez but ahead of the rest like Toney, Barrera, Morales, Trinidad, Calzaghe, Lewis etc;

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Marquez was my opinion. I am sure he'll never rank up there when it comes to ranking.

About Canelo, I do agree he lost to Lara and struggled (maybe beaten by GGG) but completely disagree on PAC beating him. That fight (if it were to ever happen) would play out like Khan vs Canelo. Blistering speed, in and out movements but PAC gets caught eventually and is knocked out of the ring and beyond. But again as we said, mythical.

More important, a name popped up on your list of great boxers ... Trinidad.
I don't wanna sound ignorant but dude, Trinidad was a one trick pony. He had literally ZERO plan B against Winky Wright. And I had predicted that and two weeks before that fight I had met Winky Wright at 40/40 Club in NYC and it was the same discussions we had.
Winky simply said he will embarrass Tito with his jab and that's what he did. You can't say Tito was washed up or old.


Tito was a come forward brutal puncher and Oscar did beat him and then elected to run the last 4 rounds, God knows why.
It's the same reason Hopkins was able to render him useless.

I mean a boxer losing is not a nail to the coffin but a boxer not having a plan B against good boxers is just crazy.

I really wish it was Roy Jones who fought Tito in 2001 (there were rumors of a catchweight fight). Tito would have lasted no more than 3 rounds. I'd like to hear your assessment of his boxing style.

[chrisJS]

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Marquez was my opinion. I am sure he'll never rank up there when it comes to ranking.

About Canelo, I do agree he lost to Lara and struggled (maybe beaten by GGG) but completely disagree on PAC beating him. That fight (if it were to ever happen) would play out like Khan vs Canelo. Blistering speed, in and out movements but PAC gets caught eventually and is knocked out of the ring and beyond. But again as we said, mythical.

More important, a name popped up on your list of great boxers ... Trinidad.
I don't wanna sound ignorant but dude, Trinidad was a one trick pony. He had literally ZERO plan B against Winky Wright. And I had predicted that and two weeks before that fight I had met Winky Wright at 40/40 Club in NYC and it was the same discussions we had.
Winky simply said he will embarrass Tito with his jab and that's what he did. You can't say Tito was washed up or old.


Tito was a come forward brutal puncher and Oscar did beat him and then elected to run the last 4 rounds, God knows why.
It's the same reason Hopkins was able to render him useless.

I mean a boxer losing is not a nail to the coffin but a boxer not having a plan B against good boxers is just crazy.

I really wish it was Roy Jones who fought Tito in 2001 (there were rumors of a catchweight fight). Tito would have lasted no more than 3 rounds. I'd like to hear your assessment of his boxing style.

Trinidad was a great fighter. Obviously his career says that but his style was one-dimensional somewhat. I think he had good skill, great accuracy, timing and instincts. He was a great mid-range fighter. It was a hell of a dimension.

I think he was used up by 2005. I think the Vargas and Hopkins fights took a lot out of him and on top of that he’s been away nearly three years no doubt eating mofongo, tripletas and lechon and not living as a fighter. He’d lost his spark for sure and his hunger.

[IceTrayDaGang]

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No one is talking to you. This post was directed to someone else, how you make it your business is exactly what I say about you.
You are those nosy, judgmental, ignorant neanderthals.

Let it be. Good luck to you and to you boy Pacman.

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brotha man, you quoted me in the first place! now you complaining about "no one is talking to you"?

[pasawayako]

A prime pac from 2008-2010 would have ko all the current 147lbers with ease.