Comments Thread For: Hearn: I'd Love To Make Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte For Dec. 22

[uppercut510]

I wish those posters that scream duck can read your post and consume it. Like I always say it takes two to tango. IMHO when a reasonable offer is made to either teams and it doesn’t work out then so be it. I would never accuse a boxer of ducking. But that’s just me, if Whyte and Ortiz happens in England then it would be on PPV, hence why Ortiz stands to make more than in his fight with Wilder. Not only that but people would cheer for him here. So no matter how bad the offer from Hearn I doubt it would be any lower than £1.5m (Personally think he would get more and deserves more).

do you think the fight will be made?????

[Ray*]

do you think the fight will be made?????

I hope so, for us it’s great. Am not sure this fight happens to be honest, why? Because fights like this one doesn’t usually happen that easily. I said the same thing about the Joshua/Wilder situation on day 1 and that turned into “They don’t want the fight and what are they scared of” from certain posters on here. I essentially went from a Wilder fan on here to be scarred with being a Joshua fan, only if those posters can go back before the all the AJ/Wilder thing started and see how badly I sh^t on Joshua.

[Eff Pandas]

IMHO when a reasonable offer is made to either teams and it doesn’t work out then so be it.

How do we know an offer is reasonable is the question? We aren't seeing these contracts.

I remember when I heard that Broner turned down w/e he turned down for the Pacquiao fight + options. It was $4M or something iirc. Idr exactly. And I was like Broner is f#cking stoopid. I'm sure other mfers said he was ducking Manny or scared or w/e. It wasn't a good look for Broner either way whatever people were saying. But then I heard, iirc from Willie Monroe, talking about that offer Broner had gotten that he had inside info about & apparently it was a 360 offer.

If anyone doesn't know what a 360 deal is here you go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360_deal

And then I was like oooooohhhhhhhh sh^t okay that makes sense then. Broner ain't ******, he's smart or Haymon or other mfers just told him how sh^t that deal was. That was a complete bs offer that was bad for the Broner business. He ain't getting his Haymon second checks off of that deal. He's not getting his merch money. He's not getting his come hang out at my club for $50K money. He's not getting his music money. He's not getting any of the money for side sh^t. It all goes through Arum ultimately &/or he's gotta give a piece of that to Arum basically. Its more like the type of deal guys in the UFC gotta sign basically. That is a completely bs deal for any boxer with a already sellable persona to be signing.

[Ray*]

How do we know an offer is reasonable is the question? We aren't seeing these contracts.

I remember when I heard that Broner turned down w/e he turned down for the Pacquiao fight + options. It was $4M or something iirc. Idr exactly. And I was like Broner is f#cking stoopid. I'm sure other mfers said he was ducking Manny or scared or w/e. It wasn't a good look for Broner either way whatever people were saying. But then I heard, iirc from Willie Monroe, talking about that offer Broner had gotten that he had inside info about & apparently it was a 360 offer.

If anyone doesn't know what a 360 deal is here you go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360_deal

And then I was like oooooohhhhhhhh sh^t okay that makes sense then. Broner ain't ******, he's smart or Haymon or other mfers just told him how sh^t that deal was. That was a complete bs offer that was bad for the Broner business. He ain't getting his Haymon second checks off of that deal. He's not getting his merch money. He's not getting his come hang out at my club for $50K money. He's not getting his music money. He's not getting any of the money for side sh^t. It all goes through Arum ultimately &/or he's gotta give a piece of that to Arum basically. Its more like the type of deal guys in the UFC gotta sign basically. That is a completely bs deal for any boxer with a already sellable persona to be signing.

A reasonable offer would be something that is enough to make the fight in accordance to each teams market values.

[Eff Pandas]

A reasonable offer would be something that is enough to make the fight in accordance to each teams market values.

I get that, but how are fans supposed to identify what is or isn't a reasonable offer to say who might be "ducking" when they rarely know what the offer is OR what the options or other aspects of a contract could be? I don't think we can.

Ultimately a reasonable offer to us just ends up being when a deal gets accepted & the fight is made. Thus it musta been reasonable enough.

But that could still be a bad offer to a fighter & maybe the fighter just decided to take a chance at future value to be gained over being immediately rewarded for their current value.

[Ake-Dawg]

I get that, but how are fans supposed to identify what is or isn't a reasonable offer to say who might be "ducking" when they rarely know what the offer is OR what the options or other aspects of a contract could be? I don't think we can.

Ultimately a reasonable offer to us just ends up being when a deal gets accepted & the fight is made. Thus it musta been reasonable enough.

But that could still be a bad offer to a fighter & maybe the fighter just decided to take a chance at future value to be gained over being immediately rewarded for their current value.

There you go again. Expecting others to acknowledge that sometimes we don't have enough detail to determine what is reasonable or even what a fighters market value is. Your AB example was perfect. What I don't understand is why these reporters continuously ask these softball questions to promoters and allow them to control the narrative. How is it that we don't know the Wilder Fury rematch details. How is it that we don't know the % split Hearn offered Wilder?

[Ray*]

I get that, but how are fans supposed to identify what is or isn't a reasonable offer to say who might be "ducking" when they rarely know what the offer is OR what the options or other aspects of a contract could be? I don't think we can.

Ultimately a reasonable offer to us just ends up being when a deal gets accepted & the fight is made. Thus it musta been reasonable enough.

But that could still be a bad offer to a fighter & maybe the fighter just decided to take a chance at future value to be gained over being immediately rewarded for their current value.

Fans would always take one side, we have seen that with the whole AJ/Wilder thing, the only thing i can go by is what both team can confirm.

I have seen fighters taking the short end of the stick to make fights, because they are looking at the bigger picture, a deal that doesn't necessarily represent their market value.

If for example Ortiz sells out all his fights in miami then i think him fighting Whyte in that location would be a viable option which means Ortiz market value would increase, right now he doesn't, we know his purses are not in the double millions yet, so we know his market value in terms of what he brings to the table.

I hope this fight gets made and i hope the posters that are so quick to label one a ducker can read some of your post in regards to ducking.

There you go again. Expecting others to acknowledge that sometimes we don't have enough detail to determine what is reasonable or even what a fighters market value is. Your AB example was perfect. What I don't understand is why these reporters continuously ask these softball questions to promoters and allow them to control the narrative. How is it that we don't know the Wilder Fury rematch details. How is it that we don't know the % split Hearn offered Wilder?

Because both Teams have decide NOT to leak the details, details get leaked on purpose all the time, to serve a purpose. Especially when it's in the best interest of their fighters, but both Fury and Wilder cannot afford to leak their fight details due to future negotiation with Joshua...Best believe they would both claim they made $25M dollars each upwards.

[PotentialToast]

What difference does it make? He and Ortiz are both the top two mandatory challengers for Deontay Wilder's WBC title belt.

So what if they don't make the kind of money they are expecting to make. At least they will be put in line for an eventual title shot at the WBC belt.

If Whyte ducks Ortiz again, this will mark the third time he has pulled such a stunt like this. First, he ducked Ortiz for the WBC title eliminator, then he ducked Pulev for the IBF title eliminator and unless Luis Ortiz come over to the U.K. He is about to duck this mandatory title eliminator again which is sad.

Perhaps he just hold out until April and receive that ass whoopin again the second time around by Anthony Joshua for the WBO title.

Whyte fighting Parker elevates him to WBO mandatory (confirmed at the end of the month) and he is then next in line for AJ (monster pay day). He made £Ms fighting Parker. Pulev was for $300k ish. Ortiz for a second eliminator and Wilder saying he would duck him for 2 years! Whyte made the smart move. Fighting Ortiz for fun now (not really much for him to gain) illustrates his balls.

[Ake-Dawg]

Fans would always take one side, we have seen that with the whole AJ/Wilder thing, the only thing i can go by is what both team can confirm.

I have seen fighters taking the short end of the stick to make fights, because they are looking at the bigger picture, a deal that doesn't necessarily represent their market value.

If for example Ortiz sells out all his fights in miami then i think him fighting Whyte in that location would be a viable option which means Ortiz market value would increase, right now he doesn't, we know his purses are not in the double millions yet, so we know his market value in terms of what he brings to the table.

I hope this fight gets made and i hope the posters that are so quick to label one a ducker can read some of your post in regards to ducking.



Because both Teams have decide NOT to leak the details, details get leaked on purpose all the time, to serve a purpose. Especially when it's in the best interest of their fighters, but both Fury and Wilder cannot afford to leak their fight details due to future negotiation with Joshua...Best believe they would both claim they made $25M dollars each upwards.

A fighter's purse isn't the only evidence of market value. For example, Mayweather's purse for the MayPac fight was $200M. However, he made far more than that off of endorsement and ppv revenue that will never get reported. Fighters create alternate revenue streams under businesses to avoid taxes. Its been speculated that over $350M went to Mayweather and his associated businesses (promotional company included). Reported purses don't always represent market value, so we as fans should shy away from trying to use that definitively.

As for details that aren't revealed, I want reporters to ask the questions and they haven't. Re: Wilder Fury, it appears that their rematch clause allows for Wilder to fight Joshua before rematching Fury based on the chatter between the fighters.

[JWHardin]

The IBF mandatory was called first. Had Joshua fought Ortiz first he would have lost his title. So it made sense to get that out of the way. Ortiz would have been next But Ortiz went in Wilder's direction instead and failed a test so wouldn't have been able to fight Joshua anyway because the WBA stripped him from the top 15 rankings. So it's a good job a training camp for Joshua wasn't wasted and he had the Takam fight instead.

According to this article, it was the WBA that should have been mandated first, not the IBF.
https://www.skysports.com/boxing/new...nst-luis-ortiz

Hearn stated at the time that sometimes you have to drop belts to give the fights people want. (when talking about the Wilder fight) He also said no one wants to watch AJ fight Pulev, the way Pulev was beaten so easily by Wlad.