Who is the lineal HW champion?

[Boksfan]

Vacated until #1 fights #2

[davefromvancouv]

that is not even debatable

but the winner of Wilder/Joshua would become undisputed

lineal is really only relevant if you do not have an undisputed champ, the cycle starts again

lineal is over-rated, like we saw with Canelo when he beat Cotto

and like with Adonis Stevenson

Fury is the lineal champion. Even if there was an undisputed champion. The concept is simple: the lineal champion is the man who beat the last lineal champion, or the winner of the consensus #1 and #2 after the lineal champion retires.

The lineal cycle does not start again when there is an undisputed champion.

If there is a separate lineal and undisputed champion, the lineal title may have less sway but, historically, it still has relevance because you can never be stripped of this mythical title. Doesn't matter if you're temporarily banned, you take time off, you refuse to fight the best, etc. You either lose it in the ring or you relinquish it by "officially" retiring. At that point, it becomes vacant until there is an actual fight between the consensus #1 and #2.

So in the current situation, Fury is defending the lineal title against Pianeta. If Pianeta wins, he's in the history books as the new lineal champion... Until he gets beaten or retires...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lineal_boxing_world_champions

[TyrantT316]

Joshua is the widely accepted champion due to his size, promotion, beating Wlad, being marketable, holding more than one belt.

Wilder is not as widely accepted, but in my view on a similar level as Joshua. Joshua just has Wlad as the better name on his record vs Wilder with Ortiz.

Fury is still the lineal champion. Wlad was dominant, Fury dominated him in skill and became the man. Fury never lost it in the ring. So until Fury loses, he'll be the lineal champ.

Wilder is obviously pushing to be the lineal champion to have that claim in a fight vs Joshua. Not a bad move in my opinion. He at least gets a big title fight vs the lineal champ so it's a lot of risk with reward. If he wins, he can't be viewed as second to Joshua as far as boxing champions are concerned.

[aboutfkntime]

No, it doesn't. Where are you getting this idea from ?

They are two completely unrelated concepts

You can be undisputed without being lineal, and vice versa. Roy Jones Jr was the best example. Martinez was the lineal MW champion without holding any titles at all.

The lineal system simply comes from the consensus no.1 beating the consensus no.2. Or where there is already a consensus champion, somebody beating him.

That is the problem with the lineal system, as its difficult to achieve consensus in a lot of cases. Right now, there is no consensus on whether or not Fury is the lineal champion, but its almost universally accepted that Joshua is no.1 and Wilder is no.2. Both the winner of that fight, and Fury would still have claims.

no, that is bollocks..... no idea where you got that from

that doesn't even make sense

undisputed = holding ALL major titles

lineal = the-man-who-beat-the-man

undisputed > lineal..... hands down, not even close

a lineal " champ " is only relevant when you don't have a real champ..... back in the day, there was no such thing..... it only comes into play when a TRUE undisputed champion retires, dies, or is stripped..... leaving the titles fragmented, and so the cycle starts again

waaaaay too much importance is placed on lineage

[aboutfkntime]

fury was not active and fighting, the guy had retired and was also *sort of* suspended for PEDS and blow. other than losing i can't find many better reasons to vacate the man's title. this is a discussion of lineage and in the case of my post, ring magazine and it's lineage's history. particularly with the HW championship you will not find anybody who was that inactive. best example that you'll find is muhammad ali, who certainly left under less dubious circumstances, but was not considered the champion of the world when he came back, more of a placeholder for a spot to challenge joe frazier. joe frazier had complied with the US army, kept his boxing license, and he and ali boxed off at #1 and 2 respectively for a vacant lineage.

The Ring do not/can not, create lineage

lol wtf ?

forget that bible-of-boxing bullshht..... they are a fkn magazine, they do not sanction and they do not mandate

you win/lose lineage in the ring, not on paper

and you cannot be stripped of lineage, simply because, YOU own that lineage

[aboutfkntime]

Neither retirement was recognized by TBRB or RING. TBRB did not strip him for his Twitter retirement, they vacated his claim after he vacated his remaining heavyweight belts, but you can't lose your lineal title by vacating alphabet titles. The RING did not strip him for his Instagram retirement, they vacated his claim for inactivity, but you can't lose your lineal title for inactivity. CBZ did apparently recognize one of his social media retirements, but Boxing Scene still lists him as lineal champion.


https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/v...boxing-ratings

bingo !

but if Wilder/Joshua unify and one of them becomes undisputed..... the cycle of lineage starts again

lineage has NOTHING to do with The Ring Magazine...... they USE lineage when they rank, which is horribly flawed

[aboutfkntime]

Vacated until #1 fights #2

how absolutely absurd

1) The Ring's opinion..... is often wrong..... and guess what, there are more than two fighters in every division

e.g.

Kovalev/Bivol (#1 and #2) could both be beaten by THE TITLE-HOLDER Stevenson

neither could lay claim to being undisputed by beating the other

same with Canelo/Golovkin at 160

[aboutfkntime]

the bullshht.....

The Ring (magazine lol) create/appoint lineage

what bollocks

they have an opinion..... but guess what, opinions are like ass-holes, everyone has one..... so what?

never heard that until recently, on boxingscene

The Ring, have nothing to do with lineage...... other than, they rank by lineage..... which is horribly flawed and often inaccurate

the fact that they do not sanction or mandate, means that they create/own nothing..... they are an award, NOT a title

a lineal champion is just the-man-who-beat-the-man......

so what?..... triangle theories do not work in boxing

whofkncares who the lineal champ is, why would it ever be relevant/important?

[Boksfan]

how absolutely absurd

1) The Ring's opinion..... is often wrong..... and guess what, there are more than two fighters in every division

e.g.

Kovalev/Bivol (#1 and #2) could both be beaten by THE TITLE-HOLDER Stevenson

neither could lay claim to being undisputed by beating the other

same with Canelo/Golovkin at 160

Do you have mental problems? What you talking about? Do you have a clue what conversation is about here?

[aboutfkntime]

Do you have mental problems? What you talking about? Do you have a clue what conversation is about here?

you said this.....

Vacated until #1 fights #2

I replied with this.....

Kovalev/Bivol (#1 and #2) could both be beaten by THE TITLE-HOLDER Stevenson

neither could lay claim to being undisputed by beating the other

same with Canelo/Golovkin at 160

what don't you get ?