Comments Thread For: Spence Not Interested In Signing With Arum, De La Hoya or Hearn

[Ray*]

because hes fighting of the calibre of ocampo level

His “Calibre” of opponents would probably be worse if he was signed to one of these promoters, who would want to protect their investment, who wouldn’t want to deal with another promoter because of X reasons.

[pugil1st]

Boxing is not very popular sport. Outside boxing community, here in Europe, nobody knows Mayweather and de la Hoya. My friends for example, 90% of them have no idea who these people are.

Nobody worries about a market that doesn't know Mayweather and De La Hoya. Those people might as well be hermits and there is know way to get them to spend money on sports.

[Ilpo]

Spence doesnt need a promoter - he needs a rivalry or rivalries. I do not know why people preach the importance of promoters, when the fans, social media and tv exposure are the most important things today to get recognition.

It doesnt make a difference do you have a promoter or not if you are popular enough. Case Canelo: Does anybody really believe that Canelo wouldnt be this big without Oscar? Oscar doing crazy shyt and talking idiotic stuff about Canelo has made a huge impact on his popularity in mexico and elsewhere?

In europe the popularity of a fighter begins with local rivalries. In, say, England, the guys participate in so called derbys, then move on to national rivalries and then move on to europe/world -level. At that point you have a solid fanbase allready, and you can build on that with "im conguering america!" type of slogans.

Obviously I have been bit of a black/white with this, becouse obviously some guys do get a lot of help from having a promoter. But in many cases having a promoter lifts you up to a certain place, and after you have reached that place you do not need a promoter any more. That is why many guys put up their own promotional companies after reaching a certain level. But Spence is already in a place where promoter wouldnt help him anymore. He is already a household name in boxing, and getting through to a wider public is a mixture of different things, such as luck, good opponents, good dates, good lookes, making an effort to increase fame (talk shows, dancing with the stars lol etc.)

Oscar De La Hoya couldnt make a difference at this point for Spence. It is also a character question. Maybe he does not want to star in the movies or prance around the yellow pages.

Just some thoughts.

[MDPopescu]

... The era of "big promoters" (in the U.S. at least) came to an end...

... Spence actually has "promoters" and an "adviser" on top...

[JakeTheBoxer]

People who know who are Mayweather and Pacquiao, also know who are Spence, Crawford, Garcia, Porter, Berto...They also remember Clottey, Margarito, Cotto, Judah, Mosley, Quintana..All these fighters are well known in boxing community.

Others...they just don`t care.

[Tom Cruise]

That really has nothing to do with a promoter.

Crawford is considered p4p #1, has had the backing of two networks with bigger subscription bases, has a promoter and is still unknown. Same with Loma.

Crawford is a bit of a weird one because he came through late in his career when he had little hype in the early stages. Spence has been followed since he turned over, especially after giving Broner the bidniss in sparring and giving Mayweather a black eye. His main problem is getting his big rivals to fight him, but also the PBC have not been great at building anticipation for fights and that has hurt him. That’s where a good promoter comes in imo.

But I do take your point. US promototers in general (inc. PBC, Arun etc) have struggled to create crossover stars since HBO cut their funding for the sport. I feel like we heading towards something of a ‘lost generation’ of American talent in terms of profile and fights. Guys like Spence and the Charlos are ludicrously low profile considering their talent and exciting styles. They are coming into their late 20’s and still feel like prospects in a way because their careers have moved so slowly.

[Tom Cruise]

Spence doesnt need a promoter - he needs a rivalry or rivalries. I do not know why people preach the importance of promoters, when the fans, social media and tv exposure are the most important things today to get recognition.


.

A proper modern promoter knows exactly how to exploit those two avenues to their max potential.

[IMDAZED]

Crawford is a bit of a weird one because he came through late in his career when he had little hype in the early stages. Spence has been followed since he turned over, especially after giving Broner the bidniss in sparring and giving Mayweather a black eye. His main problem is getting his big rivals to fight him, but also the PBC have not been great at building anticipation for fights and that has hurt him. That’s where a good promoter comes in imo.

But I do take your point. US promototers in general (inc. PBC, Arun etc) have struggled to create crossover stars since HBO cut their funding for the sport. I feel like we heading towards something of a ‘lost generation’ of American talent in terms of profile and fights. Guys like Spence and the Charlos are ludicrously low profile considering their talent and exciting styles. They are coming into their late 20’s and still feel like prospects in a way because their careers have moved so slowly.

Not necessarily HBO as far as building stars. It was Showtime who helped take Mayweather to the next level.

Remember when Showtime signed Floyd and everyone said it was ridiculous and Espinoza was getting fired?

Take a look at HBO PPV since Floyd left. Aside from Canelo (who was built into a PPV star on Showtime), their numbers are embarrassing. Ward-Kovalev, Crawford-Postol, GGG-Jacobs, etc...all flops.

The key to being a PPV star is performance, opponents, charisma and the right push behind you.

A lot of what a promoter does now can be done by someone else. In another post, you mentioned social media and TV exposure as things a promoter can do. But why would anyone pay a promoter to do that when their publicist gets paid to do the same, is far cheaper, doesn't take 30% of your purse and a cut of everything else he can get his hands on?

It used to be the promoter would get the TV deal -- and take a cut of that.

Get the sponsors -- and take a cut of that.

Get the site fee -- and take a cut of that.

On and on.

Some boxers have gotten hip to that game. If you have people who can do all those sorts of things, it makes sense to do that instead.

[bigdunny1]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...419-story.html

The article above crushes your first point.

"Canelo's potential earnings from the fight was about $15-20 million.[18] Amir Khan's earnings from the fight was an estimated $13.1 million (£9 million), the highest for a British boxer since Wladimir Klitschko vs. David Haye in 2011."

Haymon seemed to negotiate about 40% for Khan in that one so it doesn't matter who the promoter is, he got his guy a deal.

Just because your little circle knows Canelo doesn't make him famous. He does no interviews, is seen on no TV's outside of his fights and sales from 200-500K, not bad, but no a household name. If anyone's the face of boxing it's Joshua. Being a big fish in a small pond will do that for you.

Devin Haney. And he actually looks impressive doing it. And he wasn't fighting a literal fast food worker coming off of a 2 or 3 year layoff. Garcia was disappointed in his own lackluster performance that night

Are you ****** the article you posted is about Haymon not preventing the fight from happening. But he had nothing to do with it. Oscar made a offer and worked directly with Khan's father. Who at the time was telling the world publicly that they didn't need Haymon's permission to fight anyone this is when he wanted the Pacquiao fight. He said his contract is different then other Haymon fighters he has signed. Now kudos for Haymon for not preventing the fight or maybe his contract didn't allow him to either way the fight was made because Golden Boy and Khan wanted it to happen not because Haymon did and he had no control over the event and since that fight Khan hasn't fought again on PBC or any Haymon controlled events. Matter fact he is one of the counter arguments for not needing a promoter as he just officially signed with promoter hearn to land more future PPV fights that he feels he can't land with PBC.

As for the BS estimates you posted those are lies Khan didn't get 40% he got 6M flat fee

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2017/1/1...ce-boxing-news

Alvarez-Khan generated revenue of $27,707,448 and was Golden Boy’s most profitable fight of 2016. Khan made $6 million and Alvarez made $13,309,664 (80% of the net profits)

- taken not from rumors and spin bs given to reporters before the fight but directly from financial court documents that came out during the golden boy/haymon lawsuit. Golden Boy paid him 6M and not a penny more while Canelo made 13.3M.

And again more lies about Canelo first you said only Mexicans in the US know Canelo yet Mexicans don't live on the East Coast yet his fights are in movie theaters and bars that don't even air boxing only Canelo fights. But only Mexicans know Canelo the biggest PPV star today in boxing? And you lying on his numbers Canelo 200-500K? Canelo had 2 PPVs last year alone that drew 1M buys or more. He's NEVER had a PPV ever that didn't draw more then 300K PPVs and only 1 PPV in his last 5 didn't crack 600K buys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canelo...per-view_bouts

November 21, 2015
Cotto vs. Canelo Cotto–Canelo 938,000 $58m HBO
May 7, 2016
Canelo vs. Khan Power vs. Speed 600,000 $30m
September 17, 2016
Canelo vs. Smith Canelo-Smith 300,000 $20m
May 6, 2017
Canelo vs. Chávez Civil War 1,000,000 $80m
September 16, 2017
Canelo vs. Golovkin Supremacy 1,300,000 $110m

Joshua is the face of boxing when his last 2 fights drew 346K and 334K ratings on Showtime. And you got the NERVE to say NOBODY in the US knows who Canelo is when this motherphuker can't even get more then 346K people to watch his fights FOR FREE in the US. Meanwhile he is bigger then Canelo yet his OWN promoter just said he can't make Joshua/Wilder in Sept because they have to move it away from Canelo/GGG admitting that is the bigger fight.

And for your final lie you dissing Velez who Ryan just fought yet he is BETTER then anyone Devin has fought. Now I know you just a casual fan who hasn't watched either of these guys fight. Devin just faced Mason Menard a bum who wasn't even top 100 ranked in the world at his weight. Before that he fought Hamza Sempewo who is currently ranked 887th in the world.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/420329

Before that he went the distance looking "unimpressive" with Enrique Tinoco who is currently 175th ranked in the world and he couldn't knock him out.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/536438

But Ryan fighting Velez who EVEN after the loss dropping from 30th to 45th in the world has a better resume and higher ranked then ANYONE Devin has faced.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/428653

And Ryan has the exact same amount of KO's as Devin but with 1/4 fewer fights. I say not being able to KO Velez who is better then Tinoco is more impressive. There are 6 fighters Devin has been unable to KO, Ryan has only 2 opponents he couldn't KO and he's better then anyone Devin has faced. Didn't KO Velez who never been KO'd and only has losses to good fighters. But he wobbled and busted him up more then anyone else and won every round. Some fighters you just can't knockout Devin will be the first to tell you and if you think that is lackluster then Devin has tons of lackluster fights your dumbazzz just hasn't actually watched them. Unlike you I've seen both guys.

[MC Hammer]

Are you ****** the article you posted is about Haymon not preventing the fight from happening. But he had nothing to do with it. Oscar made a offer and worked directly with Khan's father. Who at the time was telling the world publicly that they didn't need Haymon's permission to fight anyone this is when he wanted the Pacquiao fight. He said his contract is different then other Haymon fighters he has signed. Now kudos for Haymon for not preventing the fight or maybe his contract didn't allow him to either way the fight was made because Golden Boy and Khan wanted it to happen not because Haymon did and he had no control over the event and since that fight Khan hasn't fought again on PBC or any Haymon controlled events. Matter fact he is one of the counter arguments for not needing a promoter as he just officially signed with promoter hearn to land more future PPV fights that he feels he can't land with PBC.

As for the BS estimates you posted those are lies Khan didn't get 40% he got 6M flat fee

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2017/1/1...ce-boxing-news

Alvarez-Khan generated revenue of $27,707,448 and was Golden Boy’s most profitable fight of 2016. Khan made $6 million and Alvarez made $13,309,664 (80% of the net profits)

- taken not from rumors and spin bs given to reporters before the fight but directly from financial court documents that came out during the golden boy/haymon lawsuit. Golden Boy paid him 6M and not a penny more while Canelo made 13.3M.

And again more lies about Canelo first you said only Mexicans in the US know Canelo yet Mexicans don't live on the East Coast yet his fights are in movie theaters and bars that don't even air boxing only Canelo fights. But only Mexicans know Canelo the biggest PPV star today in boxing? And you lying on his numbers Canelo 200-500K? Canelo had 2 PPVs last year alone that drew 1M buys or more. He's NEVER had a PPV ever that didn't draw more then 300K PPVs and only 1 PPV in his last 5 didn't crack 600K buys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canelo...per-view_bouts

November 21, 2015
Cotto vs. Canelo Cotto–Canelo 938,000 $58m HBO
May 7, 2016
Canelo vs. Khan Power vs. Speed 600,000 $30m
September 17, 2016
Canelo vs. Smith Canelo-Smith 300,000 $20m
May 6, 2017
Canelo vs. Chávez Civil War 1,000,000 $80m
September 16, 2017
Canelo vs. Golovkin Supremacy 1,300,000 $110m

Joshua is the face of boxing when his last 2 fights drew 346K and 334K ratings on Showtime. And you got the NERVE to say NOBODY in the US knows who Canelo is when this motherphuker can't even get more then 346K people to watch his fights FOR FREE in the US. Meanwhile he is bigger then Canelo yet his OWN promoter just said he can't make Joshua/Wilder in Sept because they have to move it away from Canelo/GGG admitting that is the bigger fight.

And for your final lie you dissing Velez who Ryan just fought yet he is BETTER then anyone Devin has fought. Now I know you just a casual fan who hasn't watched either of these guys fight. Devin just faced Mason Menard a bum who wasn't even top 100 ranked in the world at his weight. Before that he fought Hamza Sempewo who is currently ranked 887th in the world.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/420329

Before that he went the distance looking "unimpressive" with Enrique Tinoco who is currently 175th ranked in the world and he couldn't knock him out.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/536438

But Ryan fighting Velez who EVEN after the loss dropping from 30th to 45th in the world has a better resume and higher ranked then ANYONE Devin has faced.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/428653

And Ryan has the exact same amount of KO's as Devin but with 1/4 fewer fights. I say not being able to KO Velez who is better then Tinoco is more impressive. There are 6 fighters Devin has been unable to KO, Ryan has only 2 opponents he couldn't KO and he's better then anyone Devin has faced. Didn't KO Velez who never been KO'd and only has losses to good fighters. But he wobbled and busted him up more then anyone else and won every round. Some fighters you just can't knockout Devin will be the first to tell you and if you think that is lackluster then Devin has tons of lackluster fights your dumbazzz just hasn't actually watched them. Unlike you I've seen both guys.

Get out your feeling. The PPV numbers listed by you are unconfirmed. This is stuff Oscar just says. If the Khan PPV really sold 600K at 70 a piece why is only 13 mil out of 42 going to Canelo? Obviously that means the fight sold less than what you're being told if Canelo gets 80% of overall net profits. There is a reason HBO never backs up these numbers.

You got the PPV numbers from Wikipedia, the same place where I got the purses for the Canelo/Khan fight. If my quote is false it stands to reason that those numbers you have are false as well.

Hell even the dollar figure aren't adding up right. How is a 938K fight making 58Mil, a 300K fight making 20mil and 1Million viewer fight making 80Mil? You mean to tell me 52K views (the difference between the Cotto and Chavez fight) adds up to $22 million? And if 300K views brings 20 mil shouldn't the cotto fight add up to more than $60 million?

Khan is with Hearn not for PPVs but because he'd done stateside. He did a reality show in the UK to build back his name there and will probably do the remainder of his fights there because it's over for him at WW in the US.

And lastly, and most hilariously, I have to get to your Ryan Garcia lies. You're getting their step up fights mixed up. Velez has lost 4 of his last 7 before Garcia including the great Alfred Santiago, the magnificent 23-7 Rene Alverado, and undefeated 6-0 Ronnie Rios. These are his losses to "only good fighters"?

Menard major loss for comparison was to Beltran in a competitive fight, who are these guys that Velez lost to?