How would you honestly rate Golovkin?

[Scipio2009]

You call Mayweather an A+ fighter. First I'd rather use a scale of 0/100. There is no perfect fighter just like there is no perfect looking woman. Every fighter no matter how great they are has flaws. Is Floyd clearly an A fighter, absolutely. Is he 97 out 100 maybe, I have him more in the mid 90s.

But let's go with your rating, he is an A+ fighter. What other A fighter did he face that was an A fighter at the time he fought them? I'm not talking about a fighter who was living off his rep. I am talking about a fighter who was clearly an A fighter at the time he faced them. Two of the guys he beat I give Mayweather more credit for than many do (especially the casuals) are Corrales and Castillo. But were they truly A level fighters if we are going by your criteria? I do not think anybody in boxing would consider those guys A level fighters while Golovkin isn't.

Golovkin is clearly an A level fighter in the way boxing people throw out letter grades. When people say B level fighter they are talking about guys like Arturo Gatti and Mickey Ward. Solid fighters but not upper echelon. They aren't referring to guys like Canelo and Jacobs. B level guys are guys like Jeff Horn and probably a guy like Berto. There are lots of B level fighters who get lots of air time.

Now where Golovkin is exactly on that range is going to always remain a question to me. He isn't worse than a 90 IMO. He is 36 years old, unfortunately we did not get to see him earlier in his career take on better opponents. Based on what I've seen I think he would have him beating any MW post Hopkins. I believe he beats every fighter Hopkins beat during his run. But we will never know. He still has some time to go. I'd rank him right now low 90's, with a cap of probably 95 if he made some career ending run of Ws.

How folks throw around letter grades on fighters has always been inconsistent, so let's try to get a rule of thumb we can work with for this conversation.

I play a lot of old school Madden (mostly the last NCAA Football game, which let you export the college players over to Madden).

I bring that up to preface that the toughest thing that you can find in that game is a college player that ends up being a 99 RB in Madden.

You can see a lot of running backs in the 70s (usually 72-79) who can be servicible backups/priority free agents, a good number of running backs in the 80s who can be servicible starters for a team, maybe 7-10 RBs in the 90s who are perennial pro bowl candidates, and maybe 1-3 RBs over 95 who emerge as tops of the league. And then you had Adrien Peterson, who basically spends his entire career as a 99 RB, falling to the low 90s/high 80s as he got to nearly 20 years in the NFL.

That's the frame that I look through.

If I had to rate 36-year old Golovkin, I'd say that he's likely earnestly somewhere 86-88; a really good player and quality starter/star, but no longer the top guy. Maybe Golovkin got near being a 91/92 when he was actually in his prime, but we won't ever know, since he wasn't really "in the game" then.

I don't think Golovkin beats Jermain Taylor, and I don't think he beats Kelly Pavlik before he fell off the rails either; Maravilla Martinez was so dependent on getting you out of position with his athleticism, that he would've been a nightmare for Golovkin, but I'm not sure how he holds up if Golovkin lands clean.

160lb Arthur Abraham is likely tough, but outside of that (and the folks mentioned in the current crop), sure Golovkin beats the rest.

[Scipio2009]

You failed to answer the question. Watch the video. Golovkin was in a totally different time as was Ward when he stated 154-168. At that time Golovkin was desperate to get a big name fight. That no longer existed when Ward threw out his response (some three years later) after his own period of inactivity.

He threw that out and did got exactly what he wanted, his name in the news, at least in boxing circles and the hate Golovkin crowd. Now if Golovkin had sacrificed everything yeah possibly he could have made a fight by why do that? He jumps up to 168lbs (hoping Ward can make it which is questionable), he risks millions of dollars to try and cut a deal with a guy who was notoriously difficult to deal with who would also view himself as the A side. It really makes no sense in any way. It would have been ludicrously dumb for Golovkin to have done that in 2015. Now in 2012 he might have been more willing. Also, Ward just happen to be throwing this out when not only was he coming off of his inactivity but also when Cotto (his promo stablemate) was hearing about Golovkin. Ward knew there was no chance a Golovkin fight was happening. He threw it out there and some suckers ran with it.

Andre Ward was 172lbs with nearly three weeks to go to the Paul Smith fight; 168lbs wasn't a problem at that point. And the offer, the insinuation of an offer anyway, was already set at 50/50.

Hindsight is a mother****er, but look what Golovkin ended up doing instead: fought Lemieux in front of few PPV homes, Dominic Wade in a silly fight, a welterweight in the UK, and then the Jacobs PPV in front of maybe 150k homes.

Golovkin takes up the offer, and he likely gets the Lemieux PPV, a Ward PPV at 168lbs, the IBF mandatory on HBO, the Jacobs fight on PPV, and then the Canelo PPV. Win or lose on the Alvarez fight, Golovkin has enough of a PPV profile and some money in his pocket that he actually takes that Saunders fight in Kazakhstan to seal the middleweight division, rather than leave his life hostage to Canelo's timeline

He seals his own legacy, lol.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

World class fighter, but he is old and primed to be taken out

[Scipio2009]

Word to the wise.....a fighter who has 21 title fight victories with zero losses, beat the no.2 and no.3 fighters in the division and is P4P no.1 is not a B/B+ fighter chief lol

Who you fight matters; why folks ignore that is beyond me.

Alvarez showed he could fight (50/50), Jacobs showed he could fight (50/50), 147 Kell Brook showed he could fight (basically 50/50 before the eye completely went), Daniel Geale couldn't punch to save his life but his career showed that he could fight, Martin Murray showed that he was tough, and 154 Rosado and 154 Ouma could fight (basically 50/50 as well).

Everyone else on Golovkin's ledger was basically the drivelling shots.

You add that Andre Ward retiring has basically put things in such flux that there are easily 5 fighters with some claim to being p4p #1, and you're a fool if you're instantly calling Golovkin an A fighter.

[Scipio2009]

Can't agree. Look at Ali. Close fights against Frazier, Norton and got knocked down by several guys. Having a close fight isn't an extraordinary event.

Remove the social impact and view him just as a fighter, Muhammad Ali wasn't a better fighter than Joe Louis was, and it's not even close.

Ali was a beautiful boxer, and a marvel to watch when he could keep the fight long, but he had clear holes in his game, namely an almost utter lack of any inside fighting.

[Scipio2009]

If you think Canelo and Jacobs are parallels to guys like Frazier and Norton, then we have vastly different views on the sport. Joe Frazier is a legend. Who is going to be talking about Danny Jacobs in 40 years?

... Joe Frazier was done with boxing by 1976. 40 years from that date gets you to 2016.

How many folks are earnestly talking about Joe Frazier in 2018? You may here folks bring up the Ali-Frazier series, or maybe even the two round beating by George Foreman, but that's about it if we're honest.

[Redd Foxx]

... Joe Frazier was done with boxing by 1976. 40 years from that date gets you to 2016.

How many folks are earnestly talking about Joe Frazier in 2018? You may here folks bring up the Ali-Frazier series, or maybe even the two round beating by George Foreman, but that's about it if we're honest.

Are you fking kidding? Only NSB can entertain nonsense like this. Did you have any clue the kind of national coverage his death got? His death got more coverage than any of Danny Jacob's fights. Lol. People can hardly bring up Ali without mentioning his great fights with Frazier. Dude is a legend.
Pls don't come at me with ****** shyt like that as if that's some kind of reasonable argument. Danny is no where near Joe in talent, fame, achievement, etc.

And, yes, that's why I said 40 years. Not sure what point you were making with the first part.

[animelive]

For reference, who is a 10 in boxing right now?

I think legacy wise very few can have the perfect resume. Floyd, Pac, Ward definitely had very strong and successful runs in recent times. So would Canelo if he beats GGG.

[DreamFighter]

You only count defences of the 'super' title? Well, you're an outlier, but that's up to you I guess. In that case Sturm only has 5 defences, and isn't there a whole load of guys (Linares for instance, or Maidana) who never had a title at all by your reckoning?

no thats your reckoning.

I count the actual ONE title, not necessarily a "super title". You can make up what shyt you need to believe to make a post, however, feel free. But why you gotta make up what you think other people people is beyond me.

[champion4ever]

He would go down in history easily as a top 10 Middleweight champion.