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Comments Thread For: Ward: What More Does Crawford Have to Do to Be P4P Number 1?

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  • #51
    Nope................. Now the media is pushing the Crawford agenda hard.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by Letmaku View Post
      Horn is not a real champ. Not even close to Broner or Linarez. Mikey is #1, Loma #2, Crawford is #3. Maybe Bud hit Spence balls to be #1
      Horn = Liam Smith of Champions.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by markther View Post
        Ward, “He should be the guy that fought the best competition and has beaten the best competition over an (extended period of time).“

        Looking at both Lomo’s & Crawford’s key opponents, who had the stronger competition Ward?


        Lomo’s (3 division champion)

        Best Wins:
        Linares
        Russell
        Walters
        Rigondeaux


        Crawford’s (3 division champion)

        Best Wins:
        Gamboa
        Postol
        Molina Jr.
        Horn

        GGG (1 division champion)

        Best Wins:
        Murray
        Lemieux
        Jacobs
        Brook

        Alvarez (3 division champion)

        Best Wins:
        Mosley
        Lara
        Cotto
        Khan


        Based on Ward’s own criteria, my pick is Lomo, but it would have been Alvarez if he didn’t get suspended.....
        Good post but you're missing out on the subtleties which ARE important.
        1. If you got a gift decision on your resume you don't get the same credit as somebody who sparks out a similar fighter or the same fighter (especially when they did that BEFORE you).
        2. If you beat a great fighter who is any one OR combination of the following:- shot/old/post-prime ......... then that takes the gloss of that win. Mosley, Rigondeaux and arguably Gamboa fit that description.
        3. If you beat a fighter who won a contentious/gift decision then you don't gain the same credit too.
        4. If you beat a fighter and he got status because HE beat a shot/old/post=prime fighter then that takes the shine off YOU beating that victor. If you include that kind of win when judging then you are compounding the error.


        IMO - Crawford beating Horn doesn't rate as much as him beating Indongo, who at least was a 'genuine' champion - Horn had a contentious decision over an OLD/POST-PRIME Pac.

        In the same way you can make adjustments on GGG's resume for win over Jacobs and you could also factor in that he should have beaten Canelo on the cards.

        Also Loma loses points when Rigo fought too small at 130 and same as GGG over Brook.

        Based off all that Loma's resume stands out. Everyone saying that Russell has elite skills. He does but he got tamed at 126 when both were in their prime and both belonged at 126. There's nobody on Bud's resume that has Russell's skillset. Nobody.

        Then look at Linares at 135. Much bigger than Loma and very skilled - maybe Gamboa had similar skills when Bud fought him but Gamboa was smaller than Bud - way smaller. With Loma-Linares it was the other way round.

        And then Walters was the feared boogeyman at 126 - nobody wanted to fight him so he went up to 130. He is as good a win as Indongo (prob better ) IMO. Who was the feared boogeynam that Bud has destroyed?

        I'm just not even going to mention GGG and Canelo - their resumes just plain lack at this point in time compared to Bud's and Loma's.

        [wanna give a shout-out to Usyk and Sor Rungivisai - building very solid resumes] >>> you don't have to jump weight classes to build a great resume ,although it can help, as long as there is significant excellent fighters in your weight-class.
        Last edited by SteveM; 06-12-2018, 01:27 PM.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by OmahasCHAMP View Post
          I Love Watching Loma, BUT...Sorry,I Just Can't Give #1 p4p To Any Fighter With Any Blemish On Their Record, Especially A Loss,#2, I Think Anyone In Contention For p4p Should Have More Than 12 Fights? I Think it Was? 11-1 Can't Be #1,NOPE,Sorry, I May Be Ok With GGG Till Loma Does More,But Even GGG has A Draw!? Crawford Hasn't Even Had A Close Fight In 33 Wins,ZERO Losses,ZERO Draws,ZERO NDs, 33-0-0-0 24ko's
          Almost As Perfect As One Can Get!?
          So Sugar Ray Robinson was never p4p after his 40th fight? Roy Jones wasn't after Griffin I? Henry Armstrong was never a contender because he got KO'd in his debut by Al Lovino?

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          • #55
            His best win is a guy that's been getting koed by journeyman. Lomachenko is number 1 p4p no questions about it.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by chrisJS View Post
              He’s a three-division world champion and, if I’m not mistaken, if I read it properly, he’s done it with the least amount of fights. And I think it’s like six or seven guys that are in that category. I think he’s done it in the least amount of fights.

              Sounds like he's talking about Lomachenko there. Loma did it in 12 fights. Crawford in 33 fights. There's a difference there. Inoue's done it in 16, Fenech I believe did it in 19 (ESPN left these guys off for some reason), De La Hoya in 23 so I think Crawford would rate just ahead of Mayweather on that list at #5.

              Crawford is clearly p4p material though and if he's not #1 he's #2 at the least. He's a great fighter entering his prime. Exciting.
              Make sure you add those bouts that Loma get paid for to his tally.

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              • #57
                1. Loma
                2. Crawford

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by siablo14 View Post
                  Make sure you add those bouts that Loma get paid for to his tally.
                  All 6 of them was it? Still up there with the fastest then. He did only be behind Inoue.

                  But most don’t add them since they had different sized gloves and only against fellow amateurs in addition to a different number of rounds. They were not professional fights and the contracts signed prior say as much.

                  But still yeah, even if you do count them then yeah still up there.

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                  • #59
                    This P4P stuff is truly foolish when you think about it. Nobody shares the same criteria. Nobody shares the same ethics. Everyone has a skewed opinion.

                    How there is even a debate about personal opinions is beyond me. Crawford#1? Sure. Loma #1? Sure. Spence#1? Why not! GGG#1? Sure!

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                    • #60
                      It's between Bud and Loma, probably. But I have Inoue knocking on that door as well even though he's only left Japan once. All are different kinds of fighters as well.

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