Comments Thread For: Results Create Movement: BScene Pound for Pound Update

[mabulkhair]

Here we go again with a lopsided list and not enough credit for the right fighters.

#1 - Crawford

Why? Who's he beat that he gets put at #1? Postol? Carnelo has decisively beaten way more top tier competition and you got him at 7?

#2 - Lomachenko

Same question - why? Rigo? Who was blown up and two weights up? Linares who everyone agreed was well past the sell date? Meanwhile there's one way to beat the guy.

#3 - GGG

Why? The two top competitors he faced, he struggled with both.

#4 - Mikey

You can't be serious. For a Broner win? Certainly not Lipinets who is a B- level fighter.

#5 - Rungvisai

You got this man at #5 when he TWICE beat people's P4P #1 AND beat Estrada - he beat two guys people felt were the cream of the crop at SFW - and has an absolutely frightening KO ratio. Seriously?

#6 - Inoue

Look, I've got no problems with him being on the list, but 6 is too high at this point. Who's his best win, Nieves?


#7 - Carnelo

No. Just no. There's NO logic at having him anywhere under Top 5.


#8 - Spence

This is where Inoue should be and Spence should take Inoue's spot.


#9 - Santa Cruz

Everyone's got him listed and I just don't get it. Why are people continuing to overrate his Frampton wins? Got a gift against Mares, other than that...Frampton is all he has. He should not be on this list. #12 maybe.


#10 - Usyk

People are overrating this guy too. Shouldn't be on the list.



So IMO that's two that shouldn't be on the list. Meanwhile, who SHOULD be on the list:

Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn - Beat the best active fighter at 147, he's undefeated in his campaign

Deontay Wilder - his record speaks for itself and a knockout win over Luis Ortiz should have earned him a spot.


This list looks like it's Cliff's favorite fighters rather than a quantifiable list of achievements. Like this quote:



You say this yet Jeff Horn who fought "the consensus best available" and beat him doesn't get ranked at all, but Usyk who hasn't is on the list. Then you got Chocolatito who got schooled then slept on the "could easily be here" - no! He's not in the conversation AT ALL anymore. Jermall Charlo who hasn't fought anybody worth mentioning, Jermell Charlo who is a shadow of his brother, etc.


Here's "The List".

#1 - Deontay Wilder - Why? His record speaks for itself. # of fights, # of wins, # of knockouts. Even the one that wasn't a knockout was decisive. He hasn't had a fight that people questioned whether he should have won it.

#2 - Carnelo Alvarez - Only ever lost to the best to ever do it, beat world class opposition otherwise, often in dominant fashion.

#3 - Errol Spence - Why 3? Not enough fights or contenders to be any higher, but 6 fighters in a row that had never been stopped, he stopped. Walked through a fighter Shawn Porter struggled with, walked through a fighter that took Manny Pacquiao the distance. Went over to Kell Brook's backyard and stopped him for the belt.

#4 - Srisaket Sor Rungvisai - Why? Beat everyone's P4P #1 TWICE, beat Estrada, a very intelligent, dangerous fighter with a solid record. He can't be higher because there are 4 ways to beat him.

#5 - Terrence Crawford - Why 5? Yes, he cleaned out a division. Yes, he's a solid fighter. Yes, he's undefeated. But the majority of his accolades were against B-levels.

#6 - Gennady Golovkin - Why 6? He refuses to fight outside of the single weight class, and the two times he stepped up, he struggled. Otherwise he's got a solid resume with no questionable outcomes except for Jacobs.

#7 - Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn - Beat the "consensus" best 147'er unanimously (technically twice), undefeated, solid knockout wins, but he hasn't beaten anyone else worth noting which is why he isn't higher.

#8 - Mikey Garcia - Undefeated, solid resume, good wins.

#9 - Vasyl Lomachenko - Solid resume, very good wins, but there's already one way to beat him which is why he isn't higher.

#10 - Anthony Joshua - Good wins, solid resume, but hasn't challenged himself outside of Clinchko.

Wilder number 1? I am Wilder fan and that's a far stretch to put him number 1. I guess beating a 50 year old Ortiz is a great thing. Jeff Horn who couldn't beat a way past prime legend...really and weighing twice as much. Just because you have a loss does not automatically mean you can't be number 1. The greatest fighters Joe Louis, Robinson, Ali, Leonard, and Duran all had losses but they were all time greats and had several losses.

[mabulkhair]

Spence jr
#1🥊

Spence number 1??? He even said during an interview by Fighthype a couple days ago that he would put himself at 5 or 6 and Crawford and Loma at 1. Spence has all the potential though to be number 1 but he isn't yet.

[komandante]

Alvares no.1 in Peds.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Wilder number 1? I am Wilder fan and that's a far stretch to put him number 1. I guess beating a 50 year old Ortiz is a great thing.

Ortiz was in his late 30's. Same as Rigo, by the way. But of course, people give Loma credit for beating Rigo yet discredit Wilder's win over Ortiz despite both opponents being of comparable age. And Loma barely hurt Rigo where Ortiz got knocked out. So yes, I rate the win higher.

But despite this, it's the fact that Wilder has faced guys people said would beat him easily - and he's knocked them all out. Now, people aren't sure Joshua can beat him. That wasn't the way people were talking 2 years ago. And there's no known way to beat Wilder. People have tried countering him, they've tried outboxing him, they've tried swarming him, and nothing's worked.

Loma doesn't have enough fights, and again, there's one way to beat him. He beat a P4P which is why he's listed, but not at the P4P's weight class. When he has more wins against quality opponents at equal weight, he will go up the list. That's how it works.

Like right now, if Loma fought Mikey, whoever won that fight goes up quite a bit, whoever lost goes off the list.

Jeff Horn who couldn't beat a way past prime legend...really and weighing twice as much.

Who got the W? Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn.

And Chavez Jr. outsized both Martinez and Canelo. Didn't stop either guy from beating the larger opponent convincingly. Stop making excuses - Manny didn't show up and he lost!...to a school teacher. Thus why he ain't on the list, even beating Lucas wouldn't put him back on it. He'd have to rematch the Hornet and win decisively TWICE - once for the rematch and once for the rubber match - and then he would be back on the list.

[mabulkhair]

Ortiz was in his late 30's. Same as Rigo, by the way. But of course, people give Loma credit for beating Rigo yet discredit Wilder's win over Ortiz despite both opponents being of comparable age. And Loma barely hurt Rigo where Ortiz got knocked out. So yes, I rate the win higher.

But despite this, it's the fact that Wilder has faced guys people said would beat him easily - and he's knocked them all out. Now, people aren't sure Joshua can beat him. That wasn't the way people were talking 2 years ago. And there's no known way to beat Wilder. People have tried countering him, they've tried outboxing him, they've tried swarming him, and nothing's worked.

Loma doesn't have enough fights, and again, there's one way to beat him. He beat a P4P which is why he's listed, but not at the P4P's weight class. When he has more wins against quality opponents at equal weight, he will go up the list. That's how it works.

Like right now, if Loma fought Mikey, whoever won that fight goes up quite a bit, whoever lost goes off the list.



Who got the W? Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn.

And Chavez Jr. outsized both Martinez and Canelo. Didn't stop either guy from beating the larger opponent convincingly. Stop making excuses - Manny didn't show up and he lost!...to a school teacher. Thus why he ain't on the list, even beating Lucas wouldn't put him back on it. He'd have to rematch the Hornet and win decisively TWICE - once for the rematch and once for the rubber match - and then he would be back on the list.

I am only giving Loma credit cuz Rigo was in the p4p list. I think Rigo is in his 40s too. Many boxers lie about their age. Loma beat Linares who some consider as the best lightweight. Further, losses don't define a boxer, it's what you do after you lose. Loma came back after the Salido fight and fought probably the best at featherweight in Gary Russell and beat him decisively.

Which fighters has Wilder fought that ppl said would beat him easily?? plz don't say Stiverne. I like Wilder but the only person on his resume that's notable is Ortiz. Joshua has the better resume out of the 2 and if we are going by your logic, Joshua has faced more undefeated boxers. Joshua-Wilder would be a good fight and a fight that should happen in the UK due to Joshua popularity.

Jeff Horn was schooled intellectually by Teddy Atlas on why he lost the fight but it's cool at least Horn is keeping the belt nice and warm for Crawford. I'm not arguing that Manny should be on the list, Manny hasn't been the same since his KO to Marquez and that was in 2012.

[Combat Talk Radio]

I am only giving Loma credit cuz Rigo was in the p4p list. I think Rigo is in his 40s too. Many boxers lie about their age. Loma beat Linares who some consider as the best lightweight. Further, losses don't define a boxer, it's what you do after you lose. Loma came back after the Salido fight and fought probably the best at featherweight in Gary Russell and beat him decisively.

Losses define you if you didn't deserve the fight to begin with. The only way Loma's status increases significantly is for him to decisively beat someone who's also on the P4P list at an equal weight class. So basically, Mikey is the only one who counts. I don't even count Easter, because he's not that good. Neither is Beltran.

Which fighters has Wilder fought that ppl said would beat him easily?? plz don't say Stiverne.

People thought Gavern, Stiverne, Molina, Szpilka. Ortiz and Arreola would beat Wilder. Many thought Arreola would walk right through him.

You can go back in time and see all of the posts claiming that Wilder was running scared from Ortiz; that Ortiz would spark and expose Wilder; that Wilder was too unrefined for how good Ortiz was.

You see, the problem is, many people, like you, get influenced by Teddy Atlas' rants about guys. As I'll get to later.

I like Wilder but the only person on his resume that's notable is Ortiz. Joshua has the better resume out of the 2 and if we are going by your logic, Joshua has faced more undefeated boxers. Joshua-Wilder would be a good fight and a fight that should happen in the UK due to Joshua popularity.

Joshua has one name of note: Grabomir Clinchko, who even at 40 put Joshua down. The only other names worth mentioning are Dillian Whyte, who had Joshua on Bambi legs for a minute, and Parker, who was basically fighting a tag team with Joshua and the ref. Clinchko is the only one I count.

Jeff Horn was schooled intellectually by Teddy Atlas on why he lost the fight

You mean, Teddy Atlas threw his own personal bias into the mix and got fired for his troubles. Yes. That happened.

6 of 8 WBO independent judges said that Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn beat Manny Pacquiao at the Battle of Brisbane. That's good enough for me, since it jibes with what I saw - 7 rounds to 5 for the Hornet because Manny didn't half show up but 5 rounds of the fight.

I go by who gets their hand raised at the end of the day. It was a close fight and one that Horn earned by not being afraid of the guy in front of him.

[Boxing Goat]

Lol @ Crawford being no.1 over Loma and GGG

Loma's last 5 opponents so outrank Crawford's that it's pathetic to even discuss it

[Boxing Goat]

Ortiz was in his late 30's. Same as Rigo, by the way. But of course, people give Loma credit for beating Rigo yet discredit Wilder's win over Ortiz despite both opponents being of comparable age. And Loma barely hurt Rigo where Ortiz got knocked out. So yes, I rate the win higher.

But despite this, it's the fact that Wilder has faced guys people said would beat him easily - and he's knocked them all out. Now, people aren't sure Joshua can beat him. That wasn't the way people were talking 2 years ago. And there's no known way to beat Wilder. People have tried countering him, they've tried outboxing him, they've tried swarming him, and nothing's worked.

Loma doesn't have enough fights, and again, there's one way to beat him. He beat a P4P which is why he's listed, but not at the P4P's weight class. When he has more wins against quality opponents at equal weight, he will go up the list. That's how it works.

Like right now, if Loma fought Mikey, whoever won that fight goes up quite a bit, whoever lost goes off the list.



Who got the W? Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn.

And Chavez Jr. outsized both Martinez and Canelo. Didn't stop either guy from beating the larger opponent convincingly. Stop making excuses - Manny didn't show up and he lost!...to a school teacher. Thus why he ain't on the list, even beating Lucas wouldn't put him back on it. He'd have to rematch the Hornet and win decisively TWICE - once for the rematch and once for the rubber match - and then he would be back on the list.

Honestly, you have to be the biggest troll on here or the biggest idiot. Take your pick but either way just stfu. Nobody needs this sh@t

[mabulkhair]

Losses define you if you didn't deserve the fight to begin with. The only way Loma's status increases significantly is for him to decisively beat someone who's also on the P4P list at an equal weight class. So basically, Mikey is the only one who counts. I don't even count Easter, because he's not that good. Neither is Beltran.



People thought Gavern, Stiverne, Molina, Szpilka. Ortiz and Arreola would beat Wilder. Many thought Arreola would walk right through him.

You can go back in time and see all of the posts claiming that Wilder was running scared from Ortiz; that Ortiz would spark and expose Wilder; that Wilder was too unrefined for how good Ortiz was.

You see, the problem is, many people, like you, get influenced by Teddy Atlas' rants about guys. As I'll get to later.



Joshua has one name of note: Grabomir Clinchko, who even at 40 put Joshua down. The only other names worth mentioning are Dillian Whyte, who had Joshua on Bambi legs for a minute, and Parker, who was basically fighting a tag team with Joshua and the ref. Clinchko is the only one I count.



You mean, Teddy Atlas threw his own personal bias into the mix and got fired for his troubles. Yes. That happened.

6 of 8 WBO independent judges said that Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn beat Manny Pacquiao at the Battle of Brisbane. That's good enough for me, since it jibes with what I saw - 7 rounds to 5 for the Hornet because Manny didn't half show up but 5 rounds of the fight.

I go by who gets their hand raised at the end of the day. It was a close fight and one that Horn earned by not being afraid of the guy in front of him.

Did you really just say Gavern lol and Szpilka who is naturally a cruiserweight. Molina who had Wilder as you say Bambi legs in the 9th and who Joshua finished in the third (also was tested positive for steroids after Joshua fight). If you want to talk about weight classes, Mikey is actually naturally bigger than Loma and if Loma takes that fight, that would be an incredible fight and one that I think Mikey would edge out because I like to remain objective.

Atlas was fired because he was not following the script like many other commentators do.

And if you go by whoever gets their hands raised, I guess you also saw Bradley beat Pac, Willimas beat Lara, pac beat Marquez in their third fight, and Trinidad beating ODLH.

I am done debating, there is no point. P4p is a mythical list and your entitled to your opinion.

[Boxing Goat]

1. Loma (Made a P4Per QUIT)
2. Crawford
3. GGG
4. Pednelo
5. Spence

Loma made 2x P4P caliber fighters quit, beat another very decisively and just knocked one out with a body shot. He's no.1

Lol @ Crawford who has beaten a few B level guys and is hyped beyond belief for it. Ridiculous