Do you think Refs allow too much holding?

[Carnage1992]

Its amazing that Hopkins never lost points for all his excessive holding.

[Mister Wolf]

Its amazing that Hopkins never lost points for all his excessive holding.

He lost a point for holding in his second fight with Echols.

[rickJen]

Yes and no. What's happening is they interfere too effing much.
Just last night (Martinez vs Mendez) I got sick of seeing this ****** ref get inside at the slightest hold.
He's almost just an inch away from the fighters ready to break.
Can't these ref clowns at least try letting these fighters untangle themselves?
Fans still want to see who can still throw punches in a clinched state.
Just yell break when you need to and warn one or the other for not following.

[Eff Pandas]

Yea I'm not a holding fan. Generally I think holding leads to less interesting fights (to be clear I'm not saying its ALWAYS like that just usually or more often then not) + helps save guys from KD's. Fans wanna see interesting fights + knockouts so that sh^t would be a nice addition to the sport via holding being seen as a more aggressively managed foul by refs.

[jmrf4435]

It depends on the situation. In many cases the Hometown fighter ALWAYS gets to hold more-It's just something i've noticed.

I thought adonis got away with abit too much holding. especially in the 12th against Jack, he prob would have gone down had he not been allowed to hold as much.

It seems to be a great way to neutralize momentum of an opponent coming forward (floyd wlad) which is a fair strategy considering it is a legal tactic

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Yes and no. What's happening is they interfere too effing much.
Just last night (Martinez vs Mendez) I got sick of seeing this ****** ref get inside at the slightest hold.
He's almost just an inch away from the fighters ready to break.
Can't these ref clowns at least try letting these fighters untangle themselves?
Fans still want to see who can still throw punches in a clinched state.
Just yell break when you need to and warn one or the other for not following.

^^^^^
This.

The ref can say, "Punch and get out." It's perfectly fine and lets the fighters work out of the clinch themselves. Plus, when you have a guy hold in a ridiculous way like flat out hugging, he's exposed right there. If he keeps it up, yes, he should lose points. But when the ref stays out of things, you see a different fight. Plus some guys' inside game is so weak that they get tied up and look at the ref like, "Break us, okay, pal?" Hell, Roberto Duran didn't get started until he got on the inside. I love boxing but the modern boxing seems to abandon inside fighting which is sad.

[MONGOOSE66]

I thought holding, ball hitting and thumbing was illegal?
Problem is it’s only enforced in Mexico.

[Redd Foxx]

I think the problem is the general lack of knowledge (among both refs and fans) as to what differentiates holding and actively working the clinch. Hopkins, Wlad, they both held. Often after punching, to get a shot in and then stall the action. Then, you have guys like Ward, and to an extent Duran, who get inside and start grinding out work. Body shots, and maybe an exit with a left hook. This is more an old-school style and was not the action-stalling hug-a-thon you see from most fighters who clinch.
Understanding the difference is important but, sadly, few can.

It's also important to note that the clinch is sometimes necessary to avoid getting headbutted by an inside fighter who is pushing against you or even clinching you. This is another element that seems foreign to many.

[Zaroku]

Yes and no. What's happening is they interfere too effing much.
Just last night (Martinez vs Mendez) I got sick of seeing this ****** ref get inside at the slightest hold.
He's almost just an inch away from the fighters ready to break.
Can't these ref clowns at least try letting these fighters untangle themselves?
Fans still want to see who can still throw punches in a clinched state.
Just yell break when you need to and warn one or the other for not following.

Agreed, let them fight out of clinches, that’s part of the fight game, gpfighting out of clinches!

[Redd Foxx]

^^^^^
This.

The ref can say, "Punch and get out." It's perfectly fine and lets the fighters work out of the clinch themselves. Plus, when you have a guy hold in a ridiculous way like flat out hugging, he's exposed right there. If he keeps it up, yes, he should lose points. But when the ref stays out of things, you see a different fight. Plus some guys' inside game is so weak that they get tied up and look at the ref like, "Break us, okay, pal?" Hell, Roberto Duran didn't get started until he got on the inside. I love boxing but the modern boxing seems to abandon inside fighting which is sad.

Spot on, brother^. Duran was one of the first examples that came to mind. I loved Steve Smoger and the way he'd let fighters grind it out. He let Froch and Ward handle their business and that fight was gritty AF. Tactical and full of exchanges both at range, and on the inside. If it was a different ref, who knows what may have happened. But, when guys are in with a ref like Smoger, they know they can't cry to him for help so they handle their business.