AJ vs Wilder propaganda, the fans, the fiction, the fantasy numbers, a fair deal?

[Boksfan]

Does nobody here question the propaganda lately concerning the fantasy numbers appearing when talking about Joshua vs Wilder?

Specially when people bring up these numbers and think 50 or 100 million revenue means Wilder gets $12.5 and Joshua gets $87.5 Million?

These numbers just pop up from some random journalists, first its $50 mill then $100 mill and then its over $100 mill and all the fans jump on it as if its a hard fact?

What are these fantasy numbers based on? What has Wilder done so far? What were his TV ratings? How much tickets does he sell? How many PPV buys did he sell? How much does he sell outside of his backyard?

There are now certain (obviously american) journalists that just jump on these fictious numbers and try to tell us how much a fight between Joshua and Wilder would generate and people eat it up like its a proven fact. They also fail to tell us what revenue really means and how much of that money ends up for the fighters involved.

When you had Wladimir Klitscho fight Joshua you knew that Wlad was selling out huge arenas before and had massive support in Europe, his fights had huge ratings on RTL (and even HBO), usually watched by over 10 million people live just in Germany. Wlad was long reigning HW champion and fought all over the world.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2017/5/1...-uk-ppv-record

Now you have Joshua, who is obviously a big star in Europe, not well known and never fought in the US and you got Wilder who is not a star in Europe nor in the US. He is slowly building a fanbase in the US yet you have certain people here claiming this fight would do crazy numbers.

There are numbers floating around for Klitschko vs Joshua which was a huge success doing about $50 million in total revenue.
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/12/...boxing-records


That doesnt mean the fighters just get to keep the $50 million, there are tons of people getting paid.

The PPV provider and the cable companies take most of the money from PPV buys and the promoter usually gets only about 45% of the revenue from every single PPV buy which means if the PPV revenue is about $30 million the promoter only gets about $13.5 million: https://www.boxing insider.com/colum...iew-deal-work/

Lets be generous and estimate the AJ Wilder fight generates $60 million (Live Gate, TV money, PPV buys, sponsoring, merchandise etc), thats more than Joshua vs Klitschko did.

Out of the $60 million there is $35 million generated from PPV buys, x 45-50% (lets be generous here too and not do the usual 45%) = ~$18 Million which leaves the revenue at ~$42 Million - $10 Million for all other costs (promotion, stadium rent, accommodations for all the people involved, paying for the actual event/putting up a show, paying the officials, helpers etc. Hearn/Match Room cut, paying the sanctoning fees, pay all the undercard fighters etc), that leaves the total revenue at approximately $32 Million for the fighters which is still crazy high.

$12.5 Million out of a $32 million pot is approximately 40% (a little over 39% to be exact) and leaves Joshua at ~$19.5 Million and with 60% of the split.

Is that such a bad deal afterall for Wilder?

Joshua vs Wilder
PPV Buys $35 Million
Live Gate $13 Million
Other income (1) $12 Million
= $60 Million total revenue
=========================
- Cable/PPV provider $18 Million
- Other costs (2) $10 Million
= $32 Million purse for AJ/Wilder
=========================

Wilder $12.5 Million, that leaves Joshua at $19.5 Million (40/60 split)

Others incomes (1): Sponsoring, TV Money, Merchandise etc.
Other costs (2): Stadium rent, accommodation costs, sanctioning fees, paying undercard fighters, actual event costs, Match Room/Promoter Cut etc.

Yeah they keep saying this fight is twice as big as Klitchko fight, is it really? Klitchko was a worldwide star, Wilder is unknown.

[Boksfan]

I agree that people are going OTT talking as if this will generate 100M. But I do think whatever it generates, Wilder should get a % not a flat fee.

Flat fees are bs in boxing.

[Holler]

Does nobody here question the propaganda lately concerning the fantasy numbers appearing when talking about Joshua vs Wilder?

I question all of it, any of the statements made in public are suspect to me.

If the offer is reported accurately I think it's a part of the negotiation process. I don't think Wilder will sign for a flat fee, he'll want a percentage and he's right to do so because its the industry norm. Giving him a percentage helps motivate him to build the fight also so it's not a bad idea.

I do think Hearn will play hardball and he should do. The time and money AJ has put in to assembling 4 belts should be recognised as should the house that AJ and Hearn have built, the revenues from full UK stadiums and healthy UK PPV figures. That's going to provide the majority of the income from the fight and AJ is fully deserving of the lions share. He's been more aggressive in his career planning than Wilder and he deserves that to be recognised in this negotiation.

Wilder also deserves to be recognised as the holder of a belt, an unbeaten exciting contender from a large market which AJ would love to crack. He's not the A side, he brings less to the table in belts and far less in commercial income, but he deserves some respect as well.

[lizard_man]

So if $12.5M is 40% why doesn't Hearn just make the deal 60-40 so the fight can happen you idiot.

[sunny31]

It’s foolish to think that offer by Hearn he would only want to get a slight pay increase for AJ and that offer was made in good faith this is a offer made with every intention to be turned down so Hearn can go to the public and be like see I offered him highest payday and they don’t want it similar to what he did with Whyte

I still think it’s a 100 million dollar fight in revenue generated maybe not take home but if Canelo/ GGg can do in the neighbourhood of 150 this can do 100 since it’s be the most anticipated fight that hasn’t been made

I don’t know why you’d think a US PPV is out of the question. It’s the biggest HW fight in 15 years for all the straps. People would be willing to pay $ for that

Even at a low end of 150-175k what GGg did against Lemieux and Jocobs or Ward / Kov did why would anyone leave that $ on the table which is what bare minimum 8-10 million take home. And I’m pretty sure it easily surpasses those PPVs

In your post your #s add up to 50 mil take home not including US PPV which would be at least another 8-20 million

So now we’re at 60-75 take home

Again why not try and get a site fee for this event even if it’s in the UK I’m sure some entity would offer to hold the fight in their stadium or coliseum for a bit of $ even if that’s 1 million

And with the International Rights like I said for me it’s a pure guess but the AJ/Parker said it was broadcast in 212 countries / regions

It’d be for sure a PPV fight in Canada , Australia, New Zealand which probably adds another couple million to the pot

And from previous reports of Chavez Jr receiving 2.5 million for the Mexican rights to his fight with Fonfara ( I know neither are Mexican and not saying it’d be that high , but still a big fight so it’s generate something significant ) to the May/ MAC fight getting 10k for the fight to be broadcast in Italy I think it’s safe to say that Germany, Mexico , Russia all pay decent $ for the fight and the other 200+ counties bring in let’s say 25k ( probably on the low end) a pop that’s another 5 million

So that’s another 10 million and that’s thrown in the pot and being pretty conservative so even by your figures with the other revenue streams this fight does 85 million take home but for arguments sake let’s say 75.

You think a fair offer to Wilder is 1/6 of the take home and roughly half of the % of what Parker got in a fight that everyone can agree is a way bigger fight and would generate more $

And even if we went by your estimation of a 50 million dollar pot you think it’s fair to offer a flat rate that would be significantly less then % what Parker got and also lower % then what a f.ucking Mando would get in what is most likely the biggest fight of the year

Are you for real, how could you even sit there and pretend that was a serious offer and should be accepted

Haha dude you are not being realistic in the slightest with your figures, and it doesn't just preclude to this fight. None of these fights make this kind of % as a profit. Joshua makes at the moment roughly £15-20 ($21-28) million a fight from Hearns own mouth, and that is from very comparable numbers to what this fight will generate, Wilder does NOT magically bring another $30 million to this fight, what planet are you living on? A bit more from TV rights, and we are banking on this being a much bigger gate then the Klit fight, which is an increased ticket price hike (risky). I wouldn't be surprised if this fight did similar numbers to Klitschko all said. Wlad was a HUGE draw, HBO and SHO both paid huge for that fight, HBO on the delay. They shared a pot of £30 million $42 million.

There have been MUCH bigger fights than this which have been held in the UK that haven't gone on US ppv. There is NO WAY this goes on US ppv unless it's in the US. No promoter would risk putting a fight, which lets face it, isn't all that big, on in the afternoon as a PPV fight.

Whilst I have seen some good boxing posts from you in the past, this area is CLEARLY not your forte. Your information is inaccurate and therefore I'm not interested in carrying it on.

[R_Walken]

Haha dude you are not being realistic in the slightest with your figures, and it doesn't just preclude to this fight. None of these fights make this kind of % as a profit. Joshua makes at the moment roughly £15-20 ($21-28) million a fight from Hearns own mouth, and that is from very comparable numbers to what this fight will generate, Wilder does NOT magically bring another $30 million to this fight, what planet are you living on? A bit more from TV rights, and we are banking on this being a much bigger gate then the Klit fight, which is an increased ticket price hike (risky). I wouldn't be surprised if this fight did similar numbers to Klitschko all said. Wlad was a HUGE draw, HBO and SHO both paid huge for that fight, HBO on the delay. They shared a pot of £30 million $42 million.

There have been MUCH bigger fights than this which have been held in the UK that haven't gone on US ppv. There is NO WAY this goes on US ppv unless it's in the US. No promoter would risk putting a fight, which lets face it, isn't all that big, on in the afternoon as a PPV fight.

Whilst I have seen some good boxing posts from you in the past, this area is CLEARLY not your forte. Your information is inaccurate and therefore I'm not interested in carrying it on.

Good job at avoiding the last part that Wilder deserves less % wise then Parker

What other fights involving a US fighter that’s been held in the UK have there been bigger then 2 undeafted HW in their primes fighting for all the straps

How am I not being realistic

We somewhat agree on what the UK PLv, gate and sponsorships generate but you don’t want to include International Rights or Us PPV

As far as the gate I bet if Hearn didnt partner and double dip with Stub hub and the actual revenue for the tickets went towards the live gate it would easily eclipse the Gate of AJ / Klit

Your own post said this fight does 42 even though your last post said 50 take home which is still less % wise then what Parker got. How is that a reasonable offer

I highly doubt a AJ/ Wilder does similar #s or less then AJ / Klit considering in his last fight Klit got embarrassed in a boring fight lost all
His straps and was coming off a long lay off and hadn’t won in almost 3 Years previously to their fight


If 150k bought GGg/Lemieux you don’t think the biggest HW fight in 15 years for all the straps against 2 prime fighters with unreal KO % could generate at least that. That’s at least another 6 mil take home and don’t think it’s out of realm of possibility to do 300-400 and if promoted right could do much more. Why would anyone involved in this fight leave at least 6-10 million on the table


I’ve always stated that I’m guessing on the #s just going off previous events of this magnitude

I think all those #s I’ve stated are more then reasonable given previous events that this fight generates in neighbourhood of a 100 mil total revenue , you don’t agree cool

[Boksfan]

Good job at avoiding the last part that Wilder deserves less % wise then Parker

What other fights involving a US fighter that’s been held in the UK have there been bigger then 2 undeafted HW in their primes fighting for all the straps

How am I not being realistic

We somewhat agree on what the UK PLv, gate and sponsorships generate but you don’t want to include International Rights or Us PPV

As far as the gate I bet if Hearn didnt partner and double dip with Stub hub and the actual revenue for the tickets went towards the live gate it would easily eclipse the Gate of AJ / Klit

Your own post said this fight does 42 even though your last post said 50 take home which is still less % wise then what Parker got. How is that a reasonable offer

I highly doubt a AJ/ Wilder does similar #s or less then AJ / Klit considering in his last fight Klit got embarrassed in a boring fight lost all
His straps and was coming off a long lay off and hadn’t won in almost 3 Years previously to their fight


If 150k bought GGg/Lemieux you don’t think the biggest HW fight in 15 years for all the straps against 2 prime fighters with unreal KO % could generate at least that. That’s at least another 6 mil take home and don’t think it’s out of realm of possibility to do 300-400 and if promoted right could do much more. Why would anyone involved in this fight leave at least 6-10 million on the table


I’ve always stated that I’m guessing on the #s just going off previous events of this magnitude

I think all those #s I’ve stated are more then reasonable given previous events that this fight generates in neighbourhood of a 100 mil total revenue , you don’t agree cool

Man how stupid are you to mention Golovkin Lemieux fight? Use your brain for reasoning next time.

[R_Walken]

Man how stupid are you to mention Golovkin Lemieux fight? Use your brain for reasoning next time.

How is it unreasonable to say that 150k bought GGg / Lemieux in the states a fight that most didn’t want or think was worthy of PPV

And the biggest HW fight in 15 years and probably the biggest fight of the year featuring 2 prime , unbeaten, high KO % HWs could do a minimum of that # of PPV buys in the States and probably do allot more

And if that’s the case why would the people involved leave at least 6-10 million on the table

[Raggamuffin]

If Parker got one third, Wilder deserves more than 35%. Wilder has a larger fanbase, comes from a more lucrative market, and has the most valuable belt. 60/40 is a reasonable request. Hearn could maybe chip him down to 62/38. But can't expect Wilder to take 35% when mandatories get 25-30% with no rematch clause and Parker got 33.3%.

Well said...

[Raggamuffin]

Good job at avoiding the last part that Wilder deserves less % wise then Parker

What other fights involving a US fighter that’s been held in the UK have there been bigger then 2 undeafted HW in their primes fighting for all the straps

How am I not being realistic

We somewhat agree on what the UK PLv, gate and sponsorships generate but you don’t want to include International Rights or Us PPV

As far as the gate I bet if Hearn didnt partner and double dip with Stub hub and the actual revenue for the tickets went towards the live gate it would easily eclipse the Gate of AJ / Klit

Your own post said this fight does 42 even though your last post said 50 take home which is still less % wise then what Parker got. How is that a reasonable offer

I highly doubt a AJ/ Wilder does similar #s or less then AJ / Klit considering in his last fight Klit got embarrassed in a boring fight lost all
His straps and was coming off a long lay off and hadn’t won in almost 3 Years previously to their fight


If 150k bought GGg/Lemieux you don’t think the biggest HW fight in 15 years for all the straps against 2 prime fighters with unreal KO % could generate at least that. That’s at least another 6 mil take home and don’t think it’s out of realm of possibility to do 300-400 and if promoted right could do much more. Why would anyone involved in this fight leave at least 6-10 million on the table


I’ve always stated that I’m guessing on the #s just going off previous events of this magnitude

I think all those #s I’ve stated are more then reasonable given previous events that this fight generates in neighbourhood of a 100 mil total revenue , you don’t agree cool

Pow boom bam!!!