Rid**** Bowe vs Deontay Wilder would've been interesting

[DreamFighter]

40 year old Wlad would've beaten 30 year old Wlad, .

absolutely not, 40 year old wlad was good for 10 rounders max., and that pushing it. He was gasping like a fish as early as round 9.


young wlad was fully fit. he'd simply outgass a 40 year wlad and then club him out, that was one of his standard way of picking up wins. The boots on the other foot now for him.

[DreamFighter]

4
A year earlier to the Young loss, Foreman was knocked down by Lyle (60% KO ratio) who was already a journeyman.

Foreman's defense is probably the worst defense I've ever seen from a heavy, ever. Foreman was just flat out bigger, stronger, more powerful than 90% of his competition, he overwhelmed small opponents with his sheer size. Foreman was the proto-super heavy, enjoying major physical advantages that he would not have in this current era such as constantly pushing off his smaller opponents to keep them off him.

Different eras, different fighters. Look at Ali, he got dropped by 188lb Henry Cooper in what his 11th fight? If he grew up in this era you're not going to find ANY heavies that size, instead you're looking at having to fight 6'4 230+ super heavies with serious KO power to climb the rankings.

whether you are hit flush on the chin by a 180 lb man or 250 lb man, you get knocked out. the result is the same.

Landing flush is the crux, and thats about SKILL, not weight. Others come into it to a degree if used with skill, such as height, reach, body weight. You dont land flusher the heavier you are.

thinking that skill is a matter of weight is kinda insane. Butterbean was a shyt boxer, not the greatest ko artist ever.

[Cutthroat]

See this is the problem, you cherry pick stage of career. If we were talking Pernell Whitaker doing well against Chavez you'd be saying "what, the same guy who lost to Willy Wise? “. I'm talking about the Ruddock who was durable because hed survived two fights with Tyson without being flattened, one of them with a broken jaw, and was considered the number 2 or 3 heavy when Lewis crushed him. Did you know why Ruddock lost to Jaco btw? He was a sick man, like, Ortiz really. You don't understand power, knockdowns or comparative performances in boxing. Triangle theory has never worked. For instance, we have Tyson Fury going life and death with McDermott, most people had him losing, getting knocked over by cruiserweight non puncher Cunningham, do you think that Wlad is weaker than them via comparative performance? I saw Derek Williams nearly killed at the Albert Hall, I saw Razor Ruddock drop like he was dead at Earls Court, I watched Grant and Rahmans careers practically ended by Lewis, ktfo. And I watched Wilder take ten to stop a gassed, fully conscious shot old fighter with high blood pressure, after getting such a fight that a doctor had to postpone the beginning of a round to check he was safe to go on. Read it and weep my friend.

Nah, it's you that cherry picks. Mitch Green and Ellis ate flush punches from Tyson and went the distance with him, but instead of it being that Tyson's power was exposed it's that they have iron chins. Green would get stopped the very next fight and Ellis had been stopped like 2x before. That is the problem, your logic and standards get flipped.

Chavez Jr. is a perfect example of how people's standards get flipped, all logic goes out the door. Most of his opponents were flat out BUMS. How many modern day fighters could be fighting 6-2, 9-4, etc. journeymen 10 years into their careers and not be criticized? Old time fighters get a pass, the standards are lowered and they're made into the unbeatable machines.

Tyson Fury was out of shape most of his career, the fat version would've lost to any current top 10 HW. It's only when he got into shape that he started demolishing guys. Fighters like Foreman, Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, were showing flaws at all points throughout their careers.

[Cutthroat]

absolutely not, 40 year old wlad was good for 10 rounders max., and that pushing it. He was gasping like a fish as early as round 9.


young wlad was fully fit. he'd simply outgass a 40 year wlad and then club him out, that was one of his standard way of picking up wins. The boots on the other foot now for him.

Young Wlad was losing to Purrity, Sanders, Brewster (a fight where he gassed early), after he hired Steward right before the Peter fight, he started demolishing these same level of opponents. He would've lost to Peter too but his holding/defense which was still in it's infancy, was just enough to allow him to survive. Brewster, Sanders, Purrity are not better than Haye, Pedvetkin, Jennings, Pulev etc.

whether you are hit flush on the chin by a 180 lb man or 250 lb man, you get knocked out. the result is the same.

Landing flush is the crux, and thats about SKILL, not weight. Others come into it to a degree if used with skill, such as height, reach, body weight. You dont land flusher the heavier you are.

thinking that skill is a matter of weight is kinda insane. Butterbean was a shyt boxer, not the greatest ko artist ever.

When a HW gets dropped by a 188lb Cooper your chin is questionable PERIOD. When a 196lb fighter like Peralta is eating flush Foreman punches your power is questionable. When guys previously KO'd go the distance with you like Ellis your power is questionable. When you're losing to Jimmy Young, McCall, Golota, etc. etc. your resume is questionable.

These are the standards modern day fighters/heavies are held to and when you hold these same standards to the past fighters it makes them look like jokes.

There is a reason why there aren't any 190lb or even 200lb heavies anymore, when you're that size your power and durability put you at a HUGE disadvantage. Does this not happen in the lower weights too? If a guy comes in even 1-2lbs overweight it puts the other fighter at a disadvantage, when a smaller fighter moves up in weight how often does he carry his power?

[DreamFighter]

Young Wlad was losing to Purrity, Sanders, Brewster

and they would all still beat him too, whatever age he was. Wlad just wasnt all that head to head.

(a fight where he gassed early)

stop with the BS, brewster out-thought and outboxed him with his defense. He was just smarter than Wlad, sorry if that offends your skintone based niceties.

after he hired Steward right before the Peter fight, he started demolishing these same level of opponents.

, no he didnt, what a lie. He demolished ONLY those below that level - leapai, pianeta, pulev, thompson. The only exception is a fair stoppage of mormeck, I'll give you that - but the general rule for his stoppages were back to bum kill.

There has been perhaps a small improvement in his survival ability. As he has got older he has become better at being cagey and more apt to commit the cheat, but not at winning.

When a HW gets dropped by a 188lb Cooper your chin is questionable PERIOD. When a 196lb fighter like Peralta is eating flush Foreman punches your power is questionable.

you are repeating failed arguments.

There is a reason why there aren't any 190lb or even 200lb heavies anymore,

the obvious one being theres an intermediate cruiserweight division now. well done genius.

[JakeTheBoxer]

Prime Mike Tyson lost to Douglas. Prime Lennox lost to McCall.

Again, we don`t know about Bowe. He didn`t fight a really good opposition. Holyfield is not the whole top opposition of that era. Lewis and Tyson fought better opposition.

[No punch power]

Nah, it's you that cherry picks. Mitch Green and Ellis ate flush punches from Tyson and went the distance with him, but instead of it being that Tyson's power was exposed it's that they have iron chins. Green would get stopped the very next fight and Ellis had been stopped like 2x before. That is the problem, your logic and standards get flipped.

Chavez Jr. is a perfect example of how people's standards get flipped, all logic goes out the door. Most of his opponents were flat out BUMS. How many modern day fighters could be fighting 6-2, 9-4, etc. journeymen 10 years into their careers and not be criticized? Old time fighters get a pass, the standards are lowered and they're made into the unbeatable machines.

Tyson Fury was out of shape most of his career, the fat version would've lost to any current top 10 HW. It's only when he got into shape that he started demolishing guys. Fighters like Foreman, Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, were showing flaws at all points throughout their careers.

Young Wlad was losing to Purrity, Sanders, Brewster (a fight where he gassed early), after he hired Steward right before the Peter fight, he started demolishing these same level of opponents. He would've lost to Peter too but his holding/defense which was still in it's infancy, was just enough to allow him to survive. Brewster, Sanders, Purrity are not better than Haye, Pedvetkin, Jennings, Pulev etc.

When a HW gets dropped by a 188lb Cooper your chin is questionable PERIOD. When a 196lb fighter like Peralta is eating flush Foreman punches your power is questionable. When guys previously KO'd go the distance with you like Ellis your power is questionable. When you're losing to Jimmy Young, McCall, Golota, etc. etc. your resume is questionable.

These are the standards modern day fighters/heavies are held to and when you hold these same standards to the past fighters it makes them look like jokes.

There is a reason why there aren't any 190lb or even 200lb heavies anymore, when you're that size your power and durability put you at a HUGE disadvantage. Does this not happen in the lower weights too? If a guy comes in even 1-2lbs overweight it puts the other fighter at a disadvantage, when a smaller fighter moves up in weight how often does he carry his power?

Brilliant comments! It's crazy and mind boggling how these old nostalgic fan boys hold modern heavyweights to an absurdly high standard, compared to the old heavyweights. It'd take time for them to slowly realize and admit that modern super heavyweights totally blow away, and are superior to those old heavyweights by an astronomical margin.

[No punch power]

and they would all still beat him too, whatever age he was. Wlad just wasnt all that head to head.


stop with the BS, brewster out-thought and outboxed him with his defense. He was just smarter than Wlad, sorry if that offends your skintone based niceties.

, no he didnt, what a lie. He demolished ONLY those below that level - leapai, pianeta, pulev, thompson. The only exception is a fair stoppage of mormeck, I'll give you that - but the general rule for his stoppages were back to bum kill.

There has been perhaps a small improvement in his survival ability. As he has got older he has become better at being cagey and more apt to commit the cheat, but not at winning.




you are repeating failed arguments.




the obvious one being theres an intermediate cruiserweight division now. well done genius.

So everyone automatically became a 'bum' since Lennox Lewis retired. Am I correct? Because you say so?

Modern heavyweight is the best there ever was. Today's heavyweights like Deontay Wilder would put the likes of Lennox Lewis and everybody else in his era to sleep or knock them out senseless.

Deontay Wilder is the most powerful puncher in human history. Lennox Lewis is a feather fist, compared to Deontay Wilder. Lennox Lewis's best punches were bouncing of Levi Billup's body like they contained the power of a little sissy girl. Lewis's best punches also bounced off the body of Zeljko Mavrovic like he had the punching power of a little sissy girl. These are facts! No excuses! Why couldn't he KO them? Because he isn't very powerful compared to today's super heavyweights like Deontay Wilder. Even Wladimir Klitschko is more powerful than Lennox Lewis or anybody else from his era, never mind Deontay Wilder.

Lennox Lewis couldn't even drop a cruiser weight Evander Holyfield in a combined 24 rounds. He isn't going to KO Deontay Wilder or any of the top heavyweights today. It just ain't going to happen! Learn to deal with this fact! No matter how much it upsets you!

[DreamFighter]

So everyone automatically became a 'bum' since Lennox Lewis retired. Am I correct? Because you say so?

I've not said so, anywhere, so thats the end your post's worth. goodbye. luv your huge redline rep bar., btw.

see I dont get why some people start a post on a fail like that...they are making it too easy to rebuke them.

[Mindgames]

Nah, it's you that cherry picks. Mitch Green and Ellis ate flush punches from Tyson and went the distance with him, but instead of it being that Tyson's power was exposed it's that they have iron chins. Green would get stopped the very next fight and Ellis had been stopped like 2x before. That is the problem, your logic and standards get flipped.

Chavez Jr. is a perfect example of how people's standards get flipped, all logic goes out the door. Most of his opponents were flat out BUMS. How many modern day fighters could be fighting 6-2, 9-4, etc. journeymen 10 years into their careers and not be criticized? Old time fighters get a pass, the standards are lowered and they're made into the unbeatable machines.

Tyson Fury was out of shape most of his career, the fat version would've lost to any current top 10 HW. It's only when he got into shape that he started demolishing guys. Fighters like Foreman, Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, were showing flaws at all points throughout their careers.

Oh dear, you've just proven my point. Mitch Green had the reputation as having a iron chin because that's what he had. He was never dropped amateur or pro, and although he lost to Johnson in he's next fight seven years and several rehabs later, he got stopped for not throwing shots back, far from being flattened, never wobbled or dropped. Now you're just lying to back up your flawed and laughable argument. Secondly, if youre talking about Chavez Snr and not Jnr as I suppose you are, it's not that he doesn't have a few bums on record, it that he has several hall of famers, double figures or great fighters, punchers and several at their peak and Wilder just has one guy with high blood pressure past he's prime. Your point about Fury was refuted by your earlier examples, whereas then you disregard stage of career entirely to make a point now stage of career matters again. Yeah, I get it, youre floundering pretty badly now, quite fun to watch tbh.