Rid**** Bowe vs Deontay Wilder would've been interesting

[DreamFighter]

Well, Wilder and AJ would clearly be the biggest guys Bowe ever faced. So big pro hw-s didn`t exist in 90s. If they did, they ******.

Vladimir Klitschko was olympic gold medalist. AJ is olympic gold medalist. Wilder is bronze medalist.

We simply live in era of giants in hw divison.

Pov got gold, hes 6 2, Majidov and Glaznox got bronze they are 6 2

You make zero sense. Why do you have zero reasoning power with the facts in front of you, all you need to do is check wikipedia to see your arguments are fail!

why am I, another person, having to click on wikipedia to show you are wrong? arent you capable of clicking through it properly yourself? are you a child? no.

You are an adult, you should be capable of doing these simple checks yourself.

[Cutthroat]

do you think any other 45 year old would do that with hoylfield?

obviously not, so your argument is wholly flawed.

This is ******ed, as if Wilder, AJ, Fury, Ortiz, Haye, Ruiz, Breazeale, Ugonoh, Hughie Fury, Pedvetkin, Whyte, Ruiz, etc. etc. aren't better than an old obese Foreman. By '88 Foreman was getting touched up by part time journeymen like Guido Trane.

I bet at the same time you'll downplay an in shape and ripped 6'6 Wlad Klitschko that AJ/Fury/Jennings fought.

A 205lb Holyfield would get rag dolled by modern super heavies.

Even Moorer was hurting him and he's a blown up LHW, Holyfield gassed that fight in 5 too.

[DreamFighter]

This is ******ed, as if Wilder, AJ, Fury, Ortiz, Haye, Ruiz, Breazeale, Ugonoh, Hughie Fury, Pedvetkin, Whyte, Ruiz, etc. etc. aren't better than an old obese Foreman.

you've tried to turn around the fact that foreman was the only outstanding 40something back then.

Today several 40somethings are in the HW market.

I am not sure you realise that you killed off your own argument yet, It would be interesting to see at what point you realise you've inverted the foreman argument the wrong way - today? or later in the week.

[New England]

This is ******ed, as if Wilder, AJ, Fury, Ortiz, Haye, Ruiz, Breazeale, Ugonoh, Hughie Fury, Pedvetkin, Whyte, Ruiz, etc. etc. aren't better than an old obese Foreman. By '88 Foreman was getting touched up by part time journeymen like Guido Trane.

I bet at the same time you'll downplay an in shape and ripped 6'6 Wlad Klitschko that AJ/Fury/Jennings fought.

A 205lb Holyfield would get rag dolled by modern super heavies.

Even Moorer was hurting him and he's a blown up LHW, Holyfield gassed that fight in 5 too.

lamon brewster wasn't much bigger than evander holyfield and he knocked wladimir klitschko out in his prime. sanders as well was only about 225 when he beat wladimir, and he was known as a very light worker and a guy who played a lot of golf! holyfield was lighter in his prime, yeah, but he worked his ass off and sanders did not!

wladimir had a bad chin, dude. please don't act like he developed one of the most boring styles of the last 20 years under emanuel steward protecting a good chin. only way he beats foreman is if he doesn't get hit for 12 rouds. you probably don't know enough about boxing to really undestand what it means to say styles make fights. your chin in relation to your opponent's power is the most signifcant factor in any fantasy HW matchup. wladimir has a flat out bad chin for a HW champion.

and FFS a 45 year old foreman would hit him, what's a 25 year old foreman going to do, pack up his bag and leave town?

[Cutthroat]

But Emanuel Steward said Lewis was a devastating puncher, and you put so much stock in what he says but then Lewis, who crushed Ruddock, floored a still decent Tucker, wobbled the durable Mccall, now he can't punch. Haha. Most of those guys you mentioned are fighters that mixed well in world class and we're good fighters. Wilders best win was a struggle against a man who was well past he's prime, who was so shot he couldn't even stop Malik Scott and had a serious illness, and he still got so hurt that the doctor had to delay the beginning of a round to see if he was ok. A Stiverne who had been stopped by a nobody took Wilder 12,a tubby nobody Molina, who couldn't even hit AJ, wobbles Wilder and takes him late. Unknown novices have led him on scorecards until their weak chins cracked, and guys who never floored a decent fighter put him down and he was saved by the bell. Plus, somehow your going on about Lewis when the thread was about Bowe. But you are good for a laugh, youre the talk of the site, well done 😉

The same Ruddock that got drew with 7-20 Phil Brown, got stopped by 18-2 David Jaco, and won a close SD to a 28-12 Mike Weaver, that guy? This is the BS I'm talking, you remember Ruddock as some sort of legend when he was drawing/losing to part time and severely undersized boxers.

Lewis was a devastating puncher for his era, but Wilder, AJ, Ortiz etc. make his power look like child's play. When reality hits you right in the face like Bllups and Mavrovic. eating flush punches on the chin you can't see Lewis' power for what it is.

I brought up Lewis because he was obviously better than Bowe, he'd KO'd him in the amateurs. Bowe's competition in the 90's was weak compared to Lewis'.

[Cutthroat]

lamon brewster wasn't much bigger than evander holyfield and he knocked wladimir klitschko out in his prime. sanders as well was only about 225 when he beat wladimir, and he was known as a very light worker and a guy who played a lot of golf! holyfield was lighter in his prime, yeah, but he worked his ass off and sanders did not!

wladimir had a bad chin, dude. please don't act like he developed one of the most boring styles of the last 20 years under emanuel steward protecting a good chin. only way he beats foreman is if he doesn't get hit for 12 rouds. you probably don't know enough about boxing to really undestand what it means to say styles make fights. your chin in relation to your opponent's power is the most signifcant factor in any fantasy HW matchup. wladimir has a flat out bad chin for a HW champion.

and FFS a 45 year old foreman would hit him, what's a 25 year old foreman going to do, pack up his bag and leave town?

Brewster/Sanders had 20lbs on the 205lb Holyfield that fought Foreman, that's A LOT. Prime Wlad didn't come around until the mid to late 30's when he hired Steward in '05. Steward taught him to use his body to wrestle, lean, hold, etc. once he got all that down he was money. Wlad aged like fine wine, he is probably the most disciplined HW champion I've seen, he didn't get fat and out of shape like Lewis, Foreman, Tyson, Holmes, Ali etc.

Foreman had one of the worst defenses of all time, catching shots on your forehead doesn't work in this era, Wilder hurts you with forehead shots.

This is Foreman in '88 vs undersized, part time Italian journeyman Guido Trane:



Foreman was getting pieced up, look at how Foreman towers over this guy, how slow he is, how easy he was to hit, how many times he has to push off to keep him off. Somehow Guido Trane could take flush punches, land flush punches but Wlad couldn't? A modern super heavy wouldn't land at will on Foreman?

Even a younger Foreman in '77 got beaten by a 20-5 Jimmy Young with a 20% KO ratio. The same Young that got beaten by Clay Hodges, Randy Neumann, Roy Williams, stopped by Shavers, drew with Shavers, drew with Billy Aird, lost to Ossie Ocasio 2x after beating Foreman, etc.

[New England]

Brewster/Sanders had 20lbs on the 205lb Holyfield that fought Foreman, that's A LOT. Prime Wlad didn't come around until the mid to late 30's when he hired Steward in '05. Steward taught him to use his body to wrestle, lean, hold, etc. once he got all that down he was money. Wlad aged like fine wine, he is probably the most disciplined HW champion I've seen, he didn't get fat and out of shape like Lewis, Foreman, Tyson, Holmes, Ali etc.

Foreman had one of the worst defenses of all time, catching shots on your forehead doesn't work in this era, Wilder hurts you with forehead shots.

This is Foreman in '88 vs undersized, part time Italian journeyman Guido Trane:



Foreman was getting pieced up, look at how Foreman towers over this guy, how slow he is, how easy he was to hit, how many times he has to push off to keep him off. Somehow Guido Trane could take flush punches, land flush punches but Wlad couldn't? A modern super heavy wouldn't land at will on Foreman?

Even a younger Foreman in '77 got beaten by a 20-5 Jimmy Young with a 20% KO ratio. The same Young that got beaten by Clay Hodges, Randy Neumann, Roy Williams, stopped by Shavers, drew with Shavers, drew with Billy Aird, lost to Ossie Ocasio 2x after beating Foreman, etc.

dude that fight was 11 months into a comeback after 10 years out of the sport! wladimir had trouble with lesser fighters than comeback foreman in his prime! so much trouble that he was knocked around the ring and stopped.

and holyfield was shorter than sanders, not much smaller! sanders was always loose around the midsection, and in the case of the wladimir fight he had only gone three rounds since being stopped by hasim rahman in 2000. if he trained hard like evander holyfield he'd have been much closer to his weight.

and again, regarding lamon brewster, he was 225 and never ripped down to the bone against holyfield. about an inch taller than evander at best, and probably identical in reach. they're virtually the same size.

are sanders and brewster better fighters than evander holyfield? because they beat wladimir up in his prime!

[Cutthroat]

dude that fight was 11 months into a comeback after 10 years out of the sport! wladimir had trouble with lesser fighters than comeback foreman in his prime! so much trouble that he was knocked around the ring and stopped.

and holyfield was shorter than sanders, not much smaller! sanders was always loose around the midsection, and in the case of the wladimir fight he had only gone three rounds since being stopped by hasim rahman in 2000. if he trained hard like evander holyfield he'd have been much closer to his weight.

and again, regarding lamon brewster, he was 225 and never ripped down to the bone against holyfield. about an inch taller than evander at best, and probably identical in reach. they're virtually the same size.

are sanders and brewster better fighters than evander holyfield? because they beat wladimir up in his prime!

40 year old Wlad would've beaten 30 year old Wlad, pre-Steward Wlad was trash and would've lost to journeymen both past/present. Steward made Wlad, he went from a poor defense to elite defense by effectively using his body. Took him years to pick up Steward's teachings when he hired him at age 29.

Trane was Foreman's 6th fight back, he was 3 years younger and 14lbs lighter than when he fought Holyfield. Foreman also looked pretty poor in '90 vs 17-7 Martin.

A year earlier to the Young loss, Foreman was knocked down by Lyle (60% KO ratio) who was already a journeyman.

Foreman's defense is probably the worst defense I've ever seen from a heavy, ever. Foreman was just flat out bigger, stronger, more powerful than 90% of his competition, he overwhelmed small opponents with his sheer size. Foreman was the proto-super heavy, enjoying major physical advantages that he would not have in this current era such as constantly pushing off his smaller opponents to keep them off him.

Different eras, different fighters. Look at Ali, he got dropped by 188lb Henry Cooper in what his 11th fight? If he grew up in this era you're not going to find ANY heavies that size, instead you're looking at having to fight 6'4 230+ super heavies with serious KO power to climb the rankings.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Deontay Wilder's punching power is overrated, I think Anthony Joshua marginally hits harder! Joshua, Wilder, Haye are the three biggest punchers in the heavyweight division! (Rid**** Bowe is a big heavyweight who can come down the middle, and would most likely beat Deontay Wilder up until? Wilder could somehow stop him in his tracks with a Bomb!)...

[Mindgames]

The same Ruddock that got drew with 7-20 Phil Brown, got stopped by 18-2 David Jaco, and won a close SD to a 28-12 Mike Weaver, that guy? This is the BS I'm talking, you remember Ruddock as some sort of legend when he was drawing/losing to part time and severely undersized boxers.

Lewis was a devastating puncher for his era, but Wilder, AJ, Ortiz etc. make his power look like child's play. When reality hits you right in the face like Bllups and Mavrovic. eating flush punches on the chin you can't see Lewis' power for what it is.

I brought up Lewis because he was obviously better than Bowe, he'd KO'd him in the amateurs. Bowe's competition in the 90's was weak compared to Lewis'.

See this is the problem, you cherry pick stage of career. If we were talking Pernell Whitaker doing well against Chavez you'd be saying "what, the same guy who lost to Willy Wise? “. I'm talking about the Ruddock who was durable because hed survived two fights with Tyson without being flattened, one of them with a broken jaw, and was considered the number 2 or 3 heavy when Lewis crushed him. Did you know why Ruddock lost to Jaco btw? He was a sick man, like, Ortiz really. You don't understand power, knockdowns or comparative performances in boxing. Triangle theory has never worked. For instance, we have Tyson Fury going life and death with McDermott, most people had him losing, getting knocked over by cruiserweight non puncher Cunningham, do you think that Wlad is weaker than them via comparative performance? I saw Derek Williams nearly killed at the Albert Hall, I saw Razor Ruddock drop like he was dead at Earls Court, I watched Grant and Rahmans careers practically ended by Lewis, ktfo. And I watched Wilder take ten to stop a gassed, fully conscious shot old fighter with high blood pressure, after getting such a fight that a doctor had to postpone the beginning of a round to check he was safe to go on. Read it and weep my friend.