Rid**** Bowe vs Deontay Wilder would've been interesting

[Mindgames]

Holyfield and Tubbs weren't punchers either, but despite getting dropped by Holyfield and rocked by Tubbs Bowe he's described as having one of the toughest chins of all time.

Ortiz had never been down, never been hurt by punchers with similar KO ratios. 90's Foreman hit 205lb Holyfield with everything he had and he withstood it, 90's Foreman was losing to journeymen. This is a joke. If AJ/Wilder/Ortiz teed off on a 205lb fighter's head for 12 full rounds without a knock down their power would get laughed at.

Compare the 90's southpaws to Ortiz and you'll see Ortiz was on an entirely different level. Jeff Wooden was a small journeyman that used to give contenders/champions absolute hell. Moorer was a LHW that moved all the way up to HW and became champion. None of these men have the power, the durability, or size of an Ortiz.

You totally disregarded the level these guys were fighting at. Ortiz was fighting at a low level apart from Jennings who has no knockouts at world class level. This is why you can't say Ortiz had a great chin. Btw Foreman didn't hit Holyfield with everything he had, Holyfield avoided by far the worse of the punishment. But you're kind of all over the place with your reasoning. Ortiz simply had only one good win against a world rated fighter who wasn't a puncher. And he had a serious illness, which is another thing you don't address. But again, this is a much better effort than the other day, slightly shorter pieces, with the outrageous stuff sounding a little more realistic lol.

[4truth]

Wilder and it's not even a question. Bowe was just too slow, in the early rounds of the first fight Holyfield was getting in and out without problem, imagine with Wilder who has around the same speed as Holyfield but has the reach to fight out of Bowe's range. Wilder would jab his head for 2-3 rounds and go for the kill with the right, does'nt matter how though Bowe was, he wouldn't be able to take this sort of punishment for so long and his defense wouldn't help

I agree that compared to Wilder, Bowe was very slow BUT in a battle of jabs Bowe wins that and it's not close. The question would be could Wilder land a bomb.

[Just looking]

I agree that compared to Wilder, Bowe was very slow BUT in a battle of jabs Bowe wins that and it's not close. The question would be could Wilder land a bomb.

Wilder is faster and have a better reach, Holyfield was going straight at Bowe and Bowe could'nt jab him as he was getting inside. If Wilder and Bowe throwed jabs at the same moment, Wilder's would hit before while Bowe wouldn't even reach him

[4truth]

Wilder is faster and have a better reach, Holyfield was going straight at Bowe and Bowe could'nt jab him as he was getting inside. If Wilder and Bowe throwed jabs at the same moment, Wilder's would hit before while Bowe wouldn't even reach him

Wilder's jab is weak, and while I think Bowe is overrated, his jab was among the best ever. All the while Washington was throwing a jab, he was controlling Wilder making him reset every time. He came out in the 5th NOT throwing it and got destroyed. Bowe had an 81" reach which is plenty sufficient. Hell, even short armed Szpilka was having his way with the jab. The jab is a real problem for Wilder.

[Cutthroat]

You totally disregarded the level these guys were fighting at. Ortiz was fighting at a low level apart from Jennings who has no knockouts at world class level. This is why you can't say Ortiz had a great chin. Btw Foreman didn't hit Holyfield with everything he had, Holyfield avoided by far the worse of the punishment. But you're kind of all over the place with your reasoning. Ortiz simply had only one good win against a world rated fighter who wasn't a puncher. And he had a serious illness, which is another thing you don't address. But again, this is a much better effort than the other day, slightly shorter pieces, with the outrageous stuff sounding a little more realistic lol.

You're inflating the level these guys were fighting at. People are flipping their logic and standards when it comes to these old time fighters.

When Holyfield gets into a war with Foreman it's because he's a great boxer? No, the reality of it is he had a very poor defense. Sorry bust your'e not that great when you're getting into a war with an obese 42 year old man that would later lose to other journeymen.

When 205lb Holyfield is eating Foreman's punches it's because he's got an iron chin? No, the reality of it is Foreman's power was overrated.

Bowe was KO'd and dropped multiple times in the amateurs, did it get him labeled as having a glass chin? No, but it does for Wilder/AJ. Lewis, Ali, Foreman were also down from journeymen/guys not known for their power, how many times did it get them labeled as glass chins? Instead it got flipped and the men that did this to them became world beaters.

Just 1 year after a close fight with Bowe, Tubbs went on to get stopped by a 12-10 journeyman. You're not going to sit there and convince me a 12-10 journeyman, part time boxer, previously knocked out multiple times is ANYWHERE near a fighter of Ortiz's pedigree. The journeyman and fighters these guys were getting exposed by were losing to OTHER part time boxers that's what you don't get.

[Cutthroat]

Wilder's jab is weak, and while I think Bowe is overrated, his jab was among the best ever. All the while Washington was throwing a jab, he was controlling Wilder making him reset every time. He came out in the 5th NOT throwing it and got destroyed. Bowe had an 81" reach which is plenty sufficient. Hell, even short armed Szpilka was having his way with the jab. The jab is a real problem for Wilder.

Wilder literally dropped Ortiz with a jab in the 2nd round, he had Ortiz's facial expressions changing with each jab, they have a lot of power behind them.

Washington-Wilder barely lasted 5 rounds and Washington is VERY mobile, Bowe had little to no mobility. Szpilka is a mover and a southpaw, you're comparing completely different fighters to Bowe. Bowe could come forward that's it, anybody that could stand their ground like Holyfield or Golota could beat him.
A mover like Tubbs gave Bowe all he could handle and Wilder is VERY fast, great reflexes.

[Just looking]

Wilder's jab is weak, and while I think Bowe is overrated, his jab was among the best ever. All the while Washington was throwing a jab, he was controlling Wilder making him reset every time. He came out in the 5th NOT throwing it and got destroyed. Bowe had an 81" reach which is plenty sufficient. Hell, even short armed Szpilka was having his way with the jab. The jab is a real problem for Wilder.

Washington was throwing less jabs in round 5 because Wilder took it from him. Washington was throwing overhands on round 2 to mix up with his jab as a leading punch, making his jab more useful. On round 3 Wilder took the overhand from him with left hooks. With only the jab to lead, his jab was landing less and less through the fight as Wilder was blocking or parring it and even counter-jabbing. And even in the early rounds they were landing the around the same amount of jabs. Szpilka was getting through because he is a southpaw and Wilder had very little experience with this type, but again, after some rounds Szpilka was having a hard time getting in range

[SUBZER0ED]

Prime "Big Daddy" Bowe would have eaten Wilder alive. Period.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Wilder has a significantly higher KO ratio than all those men. The only man to go a full 12 was Stiverne due Wilder's broken right hand.

-Peter ate Wlad's right hands no problem CLEAN on the chin no problem for 11 rounds before a left hook finally wobbled him. It takes Wlad time to break guys down, many have gone the distance like Jennings, Ibragimov, Haye, Peter, Fury, Wach, etc. you think AJ could duck into a Wilder uppercut while he's hurt like he did Wlad's not once 2x in a row? Don't make me laugh. I want to hear the excuses from this one lmao.

-Levi Billups, previously KO'd, journeyman level, went the distance with Lewis. McCall ate his punches no problem, Tua ate his punches, Tucker, Mercer, Mavrovic etc.

-Haye hasn't fought a top 10 HW since 2009 and it was a close fight that went 12.

-AJ is an accumulation puncher, Wilder needs 1 punch. Can you really not tell the difference?


Duhpas is a significantly better defensive fighter than Bowe, he keeps a very high guard. The only time he's been stopped was taking Pedvetkin who'd tested positive for Ostarine and took the fight on 48hrs notice.

Bowe was EASY to hit, he was there for anybody, he depended on overwhelming small guys with his pure size. He got into wars because he was a bad defensive fighter. He doesn't have Duhapas' guard, he's tailor made for an early KO by Wilder. Even Tony Tubbs arguably beat Bowe, now you're gonna tell me Tubbs is better than Ortiz lmao.

Luis Ortiz is a proven chin, never been hurt in the pros, never been down, 6'4 240lbs of muscle. Dropped by a jab, rocked multiple times even with him keeping his guard high, knocked out cold. He too has a significantly better defense than Bowe and is around his size. Sorry but that excuse of Wilder hasn't KO'd anyone doesn't fly.

KO ratio doesn't matter much! Otherwise, Alex Stewart, who once was a 100% knockout record would've been a more powerful puncher than Mike Tyson who had less than 100% knockout record but anyone who understood boxing enough, knew that such wasn't the case.

What matters more is who you beat. And how many in prime, top 10 ranked, previously UN-KO'ed and / or undefeated opponents has Deontay Wilder KO'ed? Pretty much none!

Wilder's best stoppages are against Johan Duhaupas, who was close to the top 10 and in his prime but Wilder couldn't even drop Duhaupas once after landing 11 rounds of flush punches.

His second best stoppage was against an old, washed up Luis Ortiz suffering from high blood pressure.

Other than that, you can't even compare his level of opposition to Wladimir Klitschko's.

Guys like Samuel Peter, Sultan Ibragimov, David Haye and Mariusz Wach are far more durable, or far better defensively or both, compared to any of Wilder's opponents.

When has Deontay Wilder ever faced someone who is as athletic + elusive + power + fast as David Haye? He never did!

What makes you think Wilder would do better against Mariusz Wach than Wladimir Klitschko when Wilder couldn't even drop the less durable Johan Duhaupas after landing 11 rounds of flush punches? Hint: He wouldn't!

And Wlad's leftover, a blown up cruiser weight Alexander Povetkin knocked Duhaupas out unconscious. So much for Wilder's mythical punching power! There aren't any excuses for that. Fighting on a short notice doesn't excuse one for getting knocked out unconscious like how Duhaupas did against Povetkin. And 1 picogram of any PED to the human body is equivalent to an ant, compared to 10 Earths in terms of size. That's how insignificant it is. It couldn't even enhance a fly, never mind a human athlete. So again, that's not a valid excuse for Duhaupas getting knocked out unconscious by Povetkin but Wilder failing to even drop Duhaupas after 11 rounds with his mythical power.

Povetkin himself didn't train properly for many bouts and was even ill. Such as against Marco Huck and Eddie Chambers. Yet, he managed to win those bouts and didn't get brutally knocked out unconscious like how Wilder's best opponent in Duhaupas did.

you think AJ could duck into a Wilder uppercut while he's hurt like he did Wlad's not once 2x in a row? Don't make me laugh. I want to hear the excuses from this one lmao.

And do you think Deontay Wilder could even drop Anthony Joshua with a single punch when Wilder landed everything but the kitchen sink on Johan Duhaupas for 11 rounds and couldn't even drop him once?

Since Anthony Joshua > Johan Duhaupas in practically EVER department.

What do you think would've happened to Johan Duhaupas if he took as many punches from Wladimir Klitschko as he took from Deontay Wilder? The same Johan Duhaupas that Wlad's leftover alone in Povetkin knocked out more brutally?

David Haye's knockout record is just as impressive at heavyweight as Wilder's. He also knocked every one out, except Valuev (Wilder never faced anyone as big as Valuev, ever) and Wladimir Klitschko (Wilder never faced anyone as good as prime Wladimir Klitschko). Rather, Wilder was knocked out cold by Wlad during the same stage in sparring and wouldn't even step into the ring with him.

What I stated about Wladimir Klitschko also applies to Lennox Lewis too. Yes, he didn't KO Levi Billups but he did KO many other guys. Oliver Mccall, David Tua and Zeljko Mavrovic have some of the best chins ever at heavyweight. Wilder has never even faced anybody IN THEIR PRIMES with solid chins like that. So how is that even a logical comparison?

Let us know when Wilder faces someone like Mariusz Wach. I would be willing to wage a bet with you right now that Wilder isn't going to be able to DROP Wach, since he couldn't even drop the inferior Johan Duhaupas.

Let us know when he faces other durable and prime opponents like Jarrell Miller, Andy Ruiz Jr and etc.

You claim Anthony Joshua is an accumulation puncher. Yet, he USUALLY knocks his opponents out quicker with fewer punches than Wilder. In fact, both Wilder and Joshua have at least 2 common opponents in:

1) Eric Molina: Joshua stopped Molina in fewer rounds and with fewer punches.

2) Jason Gavern: Again, Joshua stopped Gavern in fewer rounds and with fewer punches.


So what is this 'accumulation puncher' and 'one punch' you're referring to? If anything, this actually proves that Joshua's single punch carries greater power.

And by the way, Rid**** Bowe is bigger in size than Deontay Wilder so he could very well out muscle Wilder. And Bowe does many things which Duhaupas does, but at a higher level. Let's not pretend Wilder didn't go life and death against Duhaupas whilst getting his face badly busted up. Bowe would've inflicted far greater damage on Wilder than what Duhaupas did.

[Motofan]

Bowe all day in an easy win. Bowe in peak form was one hell of a heavyweight for anyone to beat head to head. Wilder is somewhere between first and third banana in the post Wlad sideshow.