Riddick Bowe vs Deontay Wilder would've been interesting

[Cutthroat]

Comparing a Holyfield from the Toney fight, and from 12 years earlier in the Foreman fight displays a real misunderstanding of boxing. Plus, chin wasnt what stopped Holyfield against Toney, it was body shots and exhaustion. High blood pressure does make you very sick, particularly in a sporting situation, the thickening of the ventricle in this illness certainly effects stamina and cardio, no doubt at all. Just like there was no evidence of the Toney of the Holyfield fight suffering any kind of illness. See, you move all around time you can make any argument. 12 years ago I could run a 6 minute mile. Now maybe 8 minutes. If you compare yourself to someone I beat years ago by a minute and think you are better than he was because you beat me by a minute now, you have a big hole in your logic. But you know that right? Still nothing about Ortiz iron chin, and we've been talking a while lol.

-'86 Holyfield was barely getting by a tiny 5'7 Qawi.
-'91 version was getting into a war with an old obese Foreman
-'92-'95 was getting put down by Bowe
-'94 was getting out boxed and gassing vs LHW/SMW Moorer.
-By '00 he was losing to John Ruiz

The man got hurt by James Toney to the head and body, but somehow you don't think Wilder's, AJ's, Ortiz's etc. body shots couldn't hurt him? Somehow James Toney's power could do what these men couldn't? The excuses are ridiculous.

I bet you don't even know Holyfield gassed vs Moorer by the 5th round. He gassed even faster than AJ did vs Klitschko, but do we ever hear about it? Nope, it gets erased from memory, doesn't count. But when AJ does it how many threads/posts have you seen about it? Countless.

[Cutthroat]

Tubbs went 10 with Bowe the distance and was a very slick boxer , he schooled Bowe all the time in sparring ,he only lost twice in the 80's bc he was over weight against Witherspoon and too M.Tyson who would CRUSH Wilder within 5 rnds. Your lack of gaging skills is showing . Wilder would be 3rd best fighter in the 80's at best from what hes displayed so far .

Spzilkas most notable ACTUAL knock out win was Mike Mollo who had several losses and has a record of 28 and 6 ...yea Mollo who?

Spzilkas ACTUAL K.O record is 11 out of 23 fights ...and that was to journeyman and thats your proof Spzilka hits harder than Holyfield whos dropped guys like Bowe and Mercer ? lol

I dont think you REALLY understand that Wilder doesnt gave skills that work around a jab that is needed to defeat Bowe , Tubbs had a A plus jab he just lacked power .

How much is Wilder paying you to post on here is a better question ?

-1 year after going 10 with Bowe, Tubbs got KO'd by a 12-10 part time fighter. Tubbs went onto rack up numerous losses in his career vs other part time fighters. I want to hear about how legendary this 12-10 fighter was and how he'd beat Wilder, AJ, Ortiz, Fury etc.


-Tyson couldn't even crush part time boxers in 5 rounds like Mitch Green, James Smith, or Ellis. He already got his ass beat by a journeyman in Douglas.

-Mike Mollo would've been remembered as a legend in the 80's/90's like all journeymen were. Journeymen like Mollo were BEATING the champions lol.

Wilder's jab is elite, he dropped Ortiz with it and pumped out 420 vs Stiverne. When you present head movement like Szpilka or a high guard like Duhapas it becomes hard to land. When you give Wilder a target he'll hurt you with jabs.

Old time heavies are some of the worst defensive fighters I've ever seen, back when getting into brawls with obese 42 year old men got you lauded as being an ATG.

[Mindgames]

-'86 Holyfield was barely getting by a tiny 5'7 Qawi.
-'91 version was getting into a war with an old obese Foreman
-'92-'95 was getting put down by Bowe
-'94 was getting out boxed and gassing vs LHW/SMW Moorer.
-By '00 he was losing to John Ruiz

The man got hurt by James Toney to the head and body, but somehow you don't think Wilder's, AJ's, Ortiz's etc. body shots couldn't hurt him? Somehow James Toney's power could do what these men couldn't? The excuses are ridiculous.

I bet you don't even know Holyfield gassed vs Moorer by the 5th round. He gassed even faster than AJ did vs Klitschko, but do we ever hear about it? Nope, it gets erased from memory, doesn't count. But when AJ does it how many threads/posts have you seen about it? Countless.

You are the one trying to justify Ortiz iron chin when he fought no punchers.I already covered Holyfield Toney. You haven't accounted for Wilder against no puncher Sconiers though. Wilder has been dropped and hurt by people who haven't held a title at any weight. He just had life and death with a much older l man with a compromised circulation, just utterly embarrassing.Btw, all the fighters you mentioned against Holyfield were world champions, mostly Hall of fame fighters. Deontay is an accident in the making. Enjoy.

[Cutthroat]

You are the one trying to justify Ortiz iron chin when he fought no punchers.I already covered Holyfield Toney. You haven't accounted for Wilder against no puncher Sconiers though. Wilder has been dropped and hurt by people who haven't held a title at any weight. He just had life and death with a much older l man with a compromised circulation, just utterly embarrassing.Btw, all the fighters you mentioned against Holyfield were world champions, mostly Hall of fame fighters. Deontay is an accident in the making. Enjoy.

You fail to understand fighters with "iron chins" throughout HW boxing's history have been stopped/down by non-punchers. Jimmy Young, Buster Douglas, Oliver McCall, James Toney, Henry Cooper, Jennings hits just as hard if not harder than most these guys. Show me where Ortiz' losses are?

You made excuses for Toney dropping Holyfield, as if Wilder, Ortiz, Fury, AJ can't throw body shots lol. Holyfield also got hurt by Moorer and most his his KO wins came at LHW.

Sconiers-Wilder happened 8 years ago when Wilder had almost no experience, Holyfield was getting dropped/hurt throughout his career and kept his "iron chin" reputation. Holyfield was vastly more experienced than Wilder due to his amateur experience making it even worse.

Winning a title in the 90's isn't the same as winning it in 2018, two completely different sample groups, this one is obviously better. Lewis is arguably the hardest puncher and even Steward has gone on record as saying he didn't hit as hard as Klitschko. We know the average HW is bigger, more durable, and hits harder than 90's HW's.

[Mr Objecitivity]

-Wilder's last 5 opponent's combined record is 206-12, Stewart racked up his KO's vs part time boxers with double digit losses.

-Duhapas had never been stopped before, Scott undefeated never stopped, Stiverne never legitimately stopped should've been undefeated, Ortiz never stopped never in a competitive fight undefeated.

-Ortiz was not washed up lol he's never shown a single sign of slowing down. He's dominated all his opponents including after getting busted with PED's before he fought Jennings.

-Klitschko doesn't have a single win as good as Luis Ortiz and that's a fact, and unlike Wlad Ortiz was actually undefeated, never KO'd.

-Sam Peter got schooled by James Toney a year after losing to Wlad then put down by journeyman McCline 2x LOL. Wach is a walking punching bag, Haye has 1 win over a top 10 HW like 10 years ago, Ibragimov drew with the guy Stiverne KO'd to become HW champion. Just because you say they're good doesn't mean they are.

-Haye would be a downgrade from Ortiz at this point, Jennings performed WAAAAY better vs Wlad than Haye and Ortiz toyed with him. Bellew was eating clean punches from Haye before he got injured, but you think he can hurt Wilder? Don't make me laugh. Haye hasn't been relevant since 2009, you're living in the past, it's 2018.

-Why doesn't Levi Billups have one of the ATG chins? He went the distance with Lewis? Oh that's right, because it doesn't fit your logic lmao. That's what we call mental gymnastics, just like Bowe gets labeled an iron chin despite literally being hurt more times than Wilder/AJ in his career and that's a fact.

-Gavern and Molina were Wilder's leftovers, considering they were already KO'd it makes them irrelevant. AJ takes more punches to do more damage, Wilder needs 1 right hand.

-Bowe couldn't even out muscle Golota, when he fought a man just as strong he looked like complete shyt. Wilder was throwing Ortiz around like a rag doll as weak as he was at 215lbs. European fighters in general are better today than the past too, Golota would be nothing special as well, I doubt he'd even beat Szpilka.

Out of all those boxers you've mentioned. Only Johan Duhaupas and Bermane Stiverne were PRIME + top 10 ranked boxers when Deontay Wilder beat them. The rest either weren't in the top 10, or they weren't in their primes, or they were stopped multiple times before or it's a combination of all three things.

Surprising how the two opponents Wilder faced that were in the top 10 and in their primes in Duhaupas and Stiverne (first fight), he couldn't even drop them? The same trend will most likely continue if he continues fighting more of this type of opposition.

And BTW, Malik Scott was stopped by Dereck Chisora, prior to fighting Deontay Wilder. So that's false! And how hypocritical of you to give credit to Wilder for stopping a left over of another boxer in Malik Scott, whilst discrediting Anthony Joshua's stoppages over Eric Molina and Jason Gavern because they were leftovers of Deontay Wilder? Doesn't surprise me because you are full of double standards and cherry picking.

Alexander Povetkin knocked out Duhaupas unconscious in 6 rounds. Whilst Wilder couldn't even drop Duhaupas. That alone exposes Wilder's power as overrated and debunks any myth of his power, surpassing any human punch resistance limitation.

Luis Ortiz was around 40 years of age. Of course he was 'washed up' and past his best. Only someone living in delusion or a brainwashed individual would believe a boxer around the age of 40 would be at his best.

Not just that, but Ortiz was also inactive for over a year and only had 2 rounds against a bum in Daniel Martz (with 26% losses out of his career record), prior to facing Wilder. So how do we know how good Luis Ortiz really was, before he fought Wilder?

We can't assume the Ortiz that fought Bryant Jennings (arguably his best performance of his pro career) was the version that fought Wilder. Not just due to age, but also due to inactivity and lack of medication / PED.

Klitschko not having a single win as good as Ortiz is your opinion, and not a fact. Alexander Povetkin is more accomplished and has a far better resume in the pros than Ortiz does. Prime David Haye is also better than anybody Wilder beat, including the old, washed up Ortiz that Wilder fought.

Even if I agree that Ortiz is better than any opponent Klitschko beat (which I don't by the way), that would only be Ortiz at a younger age, when at his best, when he was allowed to take his medication / PED and not the washed up version that Wilder faced. As it stands, prime Sultan Ibragimov > Luis Ortiz that Wilder beat.

Again, it is hypocritical of you to justify Wilder not being able to stop Bermane Stiverne in the first fight because of an injury. When the same can be said of Wladimir Klitschko in his first fight against Samuel Peter. Wlad had a injured right arm in that fight, which is why his right hand wasn't as effective as it usually is and the only time he landed a semi-decent left hook, which happened to be in the championship rounds, Samuel Peter was practically out on his feet. The second fight showed us what a Wladimir Klitschko in better condition can do.

And Wladimir Klitschko also had a arm injury in his fight against Bryant Jennings, in addition to also being a declining fighter at the top level too. This happens to every boxer when they get older. If Wilder continues boxing to a similar age as Wlad, it'd happen to him too. It doesn't at all prove Wilder is a more powerful puncher than Wladimir Klitschko.

Mariusz Wach might be a 'punching bag'. But Johan Duhaupas isn't much less of one either. Difference is, Mariusz Wach is EVEN MORE durable than Duhaupas and EVEN MORE difficult to drop / KO.

You tried to argue that because Wach was able to take Wlad's punches, somehow it proves Wilder is a more powerful puncher than Wlad. Yet, a less durable Duhaupas was able to take all of Wilder's punches for 11 rounds without even dropping once. So what does that prove? It proves your argument is invalid and makes it moot. Considering Povetkin was able to knock Duhaupas unconscious (a guy evem Wilder couldn't even drop) but couldn't drop Mariusz Wach.

I'm not arguing about current David Haye. I'm arguing about a prime David Haye pre-2014. Give David Haye all of Wilder's opponents and he most likely has a 100% KO record. The only boxers Haye failed to KO was Nikolai Valuev (Wilder never faced anybody as big in size as Nikolai Valuev) and prime Wladimir Klitschko (Wilder never faced anybody as big + skilled as Wladimir Klitschko).

Otherwise, a prime David Haye has as much of a 100% knockout record as Deontay Wilder. And David Haye's knockout win over Dereck Chisora is a more impressive knockout win than any knockout Wilder has in his career. Wanna know why? Because Dereck Chisora has ACTUALLY been in the ring with other power punchers with 70% and 75%+ knockout records in Vitali Klitschko, Tyson Fury and Dillian Whyte but nobody else other than David Haye has ever stopped Chisora or beat him as convincingly. And that was PRIME Dereck Chisora!

Then take a look at how a declining Chisora makes a prime Dillian Whyte go life and death and takes his punches without getting knocked out / stopped. And this is the same Dilian Whyte who recently BRUTALLY KO'ed a previously undefeated Lucas Browne unconscious.

Deontay Wilder's best stoppage wins are over Johan Duhaupas (a guy Wilder couldn't even drop in 11 rounds and a guy who was knocked more brutally by Alexander Povetkin) and Luis Ortiz (a guy who never faced any other power puncher other than Wilder).

Who has Wilder knocked out with a more proven chin than Dereck Chisora? The answer is NOBODY!

Lennox Lewis didn't KO Levi Billups. But he did KO many other opponents. You do realize that a boxer doesn't have to KO every opponent and can choose to out-box certain opponents, even if they have the power to KO them? Especially if they are already winning comfortably on the scorecard. Right?

Lennox Lewis is a SIGNIFICANTLY better boxer than Deontay Wilder. And so is Wladimir Klitschko. Both are able to win rounds easily against their opponents. Lennox Lewis doesn't need his right hand to bail him out of losing situations because his boxing skills are good enough to win rounds against nearly every opponent and be winning fights against nearly every opponent. Unlike Deontay Wilder. The fact that he doesn't KO every opponent, isn't an indication that Wilder is a more powerful puncher.

I also never claimed Levi Billups has an ATG chin. The fact that Lennox Lewis didn't choose to go for the KO against Levi Billups, isn't evidence that somehow Wilder hits harder than Lennox Lewis.

What makes you think Riddick Bowe was any weaker, less powerful, less durable or less offensively skilled than Johan Duhaupas? This is the same Johan Duhaupas that was bullying Wilder to the ropes, time and time again. This is the same Duhaupas, Wilder went life and death with. This is the same Duhaupas that GREATLY bruised up Wilder's face and gave him a swollen eye.

Since you love to go by KO ratio. Riddick Bowe has a 73% KO ratio whilst Johan Duhaupas has a 59% KO ratio. If Duhaupas was able to inflict as much damage on Wilder as he did. What do you think a boxer with a higher KO ratio (Riddick Bowe) would do to Wilder? Something to think about for you!

And Riddick Bowe was past his best against Golota. If the discussion is about past his best Riddick Bowe vs prime Deontay Wilder. Then Wilder's chances of winning significantly increases obviously. However, if this discussion is about prime Riddick Bowe vs prime Deontay Wilder. Then Riddick Bowe is the clear favorite to me!

And Anthony Joshua USUALLY needs fewer punches to stop his opponents. Go ahead and check the punch stats! If anybody is more of an accumulative puncher, then it's Deontay Wilder, since he usually requires more punches to get his stoppages.

[Mindgames]

You fail to understand fighters with "iron chins" throughout HW boxing's history have been stopped/down by non-punchers. Jimmy Young, Buster Douglas, Oliver McCall, James Toney, Henry Cooper, Jennings hits just as hard if not harder than most these guys. Show me where Ortiz' losses are?

You made excuses for Toney dropping Holyfield, as if Wilder, Ortiz, Fury, AJ can't throw body shots lol. Holyfield also got hurt by Moorer and most his his KO wins came at LHW.

Sconiers-Wilder happened 8 years ago when Wilder had almost no experience, Holyfield was getting dropped/hurt throughout his career and kept his "iron chin" reputation. Holyfield was vastly more experienced than Wilder due to his amateur experience making it even worse.

Winning a title in the 90's isn't the same as winning it in 2018, two completely different sample groups, this one is obviously better. Lewis is arguably the hardest puncher and even Steward has gone on record as saying he didn't hit as hard as Klitschko. We know the average HW is bigger, more durable, and hits harder than 90's HW's.

Nope, you have a problem with logic. Holyfield had survived many big punches and punchers of the game, regardless of whether he was stopped in some fights, this is what proves a good chin, not that it's invulnerable your whole life, although not all stoppages are a matter of chin. Ortiz had not faced any punchers, so he had no opportunity to prove he's chin, so therefore you have no proof he had an iron chin. All the guys you mention before Jennings had floored world class fighters, some had held world titles, Jennings never had a world class win. Never floored a world class fighter. Non puncher, and no high level wins. Deontay can't have a iron chin being floored by a Sconiers, a man who hadnt given him a long drawn out beating and wasn't world class and has no world class wins. No comparison, and you know it, but you seem to like writing this stuff and it kinda amuses me.

[Cutthroat]

Nope, you have a problem with logic. Holyfield had survived many big punches and punchers of the game, regardless of whether he was stopped in some fights, this is what proves a good chin, not that it's invulnerable your whole life, although not all stoppages are a matter of chin. Ortiz had not faced any punchers, so he had no opportunity to prove he's chin, so therefore you have no proof he had an iron chin. All the guys you mention before Jennings had floored world class fighters, some had held world titles, Jennings never had a world class win. Never floored a world class fighter. Non puncher, and no high level wins. Deontay can't have a iron chin being floored by a Sconiers, a man who hadnt given him a long drawn out beating and wasn't world class and has no world class wins. No comparison, and you know it, but you seem to like writing this stuff and it kinda amuses me.

Lewis was the hardest hitter of Holyfield's era/resume and he doesn't hit as hard as Wladimir based on Steward's own words.
Ortiz, Wilder, AJ all hit harder than Lewis and would never go the distance with the likes of Levi Billups. This era contains the hardest punchers off all time in HW history based on their KO ratios/resumes. Like I said, everyone's logic gets flipped. When Lewis doesn't KO Billups it's because he's got an iron chin, when Bowe doesn't KO Tubbs it's because he's got an iron chin. It's too funny.

Holyfield was getting hurt by Moorer (LHW), Bowe (couldn't even KO Tubbs while a journeyman did) and Toney (MW), not really an iron chin.

Jennings proved his chin vs Wlad eating his punches for a full 12, he also showed his class in out performing Pulev, Thompson, Haye, Pedvetkin, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Watch, etc. One of Wlad's toughest fights ever. To say he wasn't world class after that performance is laughable.

Wilder-Sconiers is irrelevant, Wilder didn't have 100+ amateur fights like Bowe did. He's made leaps and bounds in the pros, Bowe on the other hand was lackluster throughout his career, getting dropped by little Holyfield, close fight with Tubbs, and when he fought a guy his own size, Golota, he was getting beat up.

[The Big Dunn]

https://youtu.be/YMqEXyq0upQ

Stylistically this is a 50/50 fight both are big HWs and both have one-punch knockout power. Idk, man this would be a war.

50/50???? Bowe would destroy Wilder. Bowe may have went out like a biyatch against Lennox throwing the belt in the trash but he is superior to Wilder in every way, shape and form.

[New England]

bowe had an incredible jab and chin. no way in hell wilder even makes a fight out of it. keep in mind that all wilder does well is hit hard. he can hardly box. bowe had legitimate boxing skills, handspeed, a mean streak, that phone pole jab, all the things you need to weather a storm and beat a puncher down.

bowe would whoop wilder. wilder doesn't even make it to contention in bowe's era. there were really, really good contenders in the 90's with power and accuracy. morrison, don ruddock, michael dokes, they'd be too much for wilder to get by.


hell,i even think a motivated buster douglas beats wilder up. just watch bowe fight a round and wilder fight a round right after and tell me they're in the same stratosphere of boxing skills.

[sunny31]

Bowe was a tough m'fer but tough doesn't get you anywhere in this current era of super heavies. Tough gets you hurt, tough gets you dropped. There is a limit to the amount of PSI the human skull to take and Wilder has surpassed that limit.


Bowe was very slow, stationary, and easy to hit. He got into a lot of wars for that very reason. Guys like Tubbs and Holyfield (205lbs), landed plenty on him including Golota. If Holyfield came in 205 vs Wilder and tried to get into a war with him like he did Bowe I guarantee you it's lights out.

Wilder would make him look slow, Wilder's reflexes and speed are on another level. Bowe is honestly tailor made for him.

Pahahahaha