Who has the greater legacy? Marco Antonio Barrera or Juan Manuel Marquez

[chrisJS]

It's Barrera. Remove the Pac fights from Marquez and all you have is a load of not very good fighters. Hell, he even lost to some of them too.

Two things. First, the Pacquaio fights mean a lot because Pacquaio showed how much better he was than Barrera and most believe Marquez won at least 2, but probably 3 or 4 of those fights. Second, that's not entirely true about Marquez' opponents.

The "losses" to John and Norwood were highly controversial. Both highway robberies especially the John one. The Mayweather loss? Big deal. He moved up two weights on top of having just moving up two weights really fast. How would Barrera fare moving up to fight a guy of Mayweather's caliber under such circumstances? Bradley? Sure, he was 40 and all the way up at 147. Hardly hurts him. Barrera had two CLEAR losses to Junior Jones. One bad stoppage, the other by clear decision. He also lost to Marquez clearly and two very one-sided fights to Pacquaio. Khan? Meh. I barely hold that one against him but it's about as relevant as Mayweather-Marquez for example.

Marquez would never lose clearly to Pacquaio as based on facts and he would never lose clearly to a guy like Jones.

Barrera has the excellent Hamed win and the 2-1 series over Morales. I'm not sure that evens up the top of their resumes based on Marquez having the head-to-head winner and their respective results with Pacquaio. Marquez also had the excellent wins over Diaz (who was young, hungry & coming off a great win) and Casamayor (who was lineal, off a great win and in Marquez 1st fight at 135) I think they ***** the McKinney win for example.

The rest?

The Medina that Marquez defeated had comprehensively beaten Tapia (total robbery) and was a natural Featherweight who had enough in the tank to win another title right after Marquez. They both beat Agapito Sanchez and Robbie Peden but Marquez beat them worse and he beat them first. They both beat Juarez, but Marquez shut him out Barrera barely sc****d by in one fight and even in the second didn't dominate him as clearly as did Marquez.

Marquez was unified at two divisions (champion at 4), Barrera at one division (champ at 3). The Alvarado win is better than the Ayala one given Ayala was much smaller and then you've got top opponents like Salido and Gainer both of whom Marquez defeated with ease. You have to factor in when a fighter beats certain guys not just the name necessarily. Marquez was always matched with solid opponents and difficult styles throughout his whole career - Pinckney, Gervacaio, Jiminez, Wheeler, Kotey, Sanchez, Peden, Medina, Gainer, Salido, Polo (very underrated was robbed in a few title attempts should have entered as WBO champ after bogus draw in Scotland vs. Harrison), John, Terdsak etc; Just because they aren't huge names didn't mean they meant little.

On top of all of this Marquez was a better fighter in the ring. He had more skill and was better at adapting.

[Sid-Knee]

Two things. First, the Pacquaio fights mean a lot because Pacquaio showed how much better he was than Barrera and most believe Marquez won at least 2, but probably 3 or 4 of those fights. Second, that's not entirely true about Marquez' opponents.

The "losses" to John and Norwood were highly controversial. Both highway robberies especially the John one. The Mayweather loss? Big deal. He moved up two weights on top of having just moving up two weights really fast. How would Barrera fare moving up to fight a guy of Mayweather's caliber under such circumstances? Bradley? Sure, he was 40 and all the way up at 147. Hardly hurts him. Barrera had two CLEAR losses to Junior Jones. One bad stoppage, the other by clear decision. He also lost to Marquez clearly and two very one-sided fights to Pacquaio. Khan? Meh. I barely hold that one against him but it's about as relevant as Mayweather-Marquez for example.

Marquez would never lose clearly to Pacquaio as based on facts and he would never lose clearly to a guy like Jones.

Barrera has the excellent Hamed win and the 2-1 series over Morales. I'm not sure that evens up the top of their resumes based on Marquez having the head-to-head winner and their respective results with Pacquaio. Marquez also had the excellent wins over Diaz (who was young, hungry & coming off a great win) and Casamayor (who was lineal, off a great win and in Marquez 1st fight at 135) I think they ***** the McKinney win for example.

The rest?

The Medina that Marquez defeated had comprehensively beaten Tapia (total robbery) and was a natural Featherweight who had enough in the tank to win another title right after Marquez. They both beat Agapito Sanchez and Robbie Peden but Marquez beat them worse and he beat them first. They both beat Juarez, but Marquez shut him out Barrera barely sc****d by in one fight and even in the second didn't dominate him as clearly as did Marquez.

Marquez was unified at two divisions (champion at 4), Barrera at one division (champ at 3). The Alvarado win is better than the Ayala one given Ayala was much smaller and then you've got top opponents like Salido and Gainer both of whom Marquez defeated with ease. You have to factor in when a fighter beats certain guys not just the name necessarily. Marquez was always matched with solid opponents and difficult styles throughout his whole career - Pinckney, Gervacaio, Jiminez, Kotey, Sanchez, Peden, Medina, Gainer, Salido, Polo (very underrated was robbed in a few title attempts should have entered as WBO champ after bogus draw in Scotland vs. Harrison), John, Terdsak etc; Just because they aren't huge names didn't mean they meant little.

On top of all of this Marquez was a better fighter in the ring. He had more skill and was better at adapting.

It wasn't so much that Marquez was on the same level as Pac was, it was purely down to having a style that worked against Pac. Nothing more.

The Norwood and John fights were not controversial in the slightest. People just like to claim that to defend Marquez and try and make out his resume is better than it really is. They were close fights, but Marquez did lose them.

The Barrera that Marquez beat was clearly well past his best. I wouldn't go round making a big song and dance about it.

Rocky Juarez was a nobody. Claiming a win over him isn't really worth the time.

You think Marquez beating a shot to pieces Alvarado is better than Barrera beating Ayala? Wow!! No it isn't. That's crazy.

You do know that Barrera beat Agapito Sanchez first don't you?

I don't care if Diaz was young and hungry, he's still only a good fighter. A good fighter that was dominating and beating the living **** out of Marquez for about 6 rounds until he was cut and completely lost his way.

Casamayor wasn't the true champ either, he was clearly beat by Cruz in a massive robbery. He was finished by the time Marquez got to him so it meant nothing. Throw in the fact that Casamayor was winning the fight before Marquez stopped him late. That isn't a good look. But hey, there is a lot in Marquez's career that wasn't a good look.

I still think Barrera was the better fighter with the better resume. But if you think differently, then that's fine. But I disagree.

[chrisJS]

It wasn't so much that Marquez was on the same level as Pac was, it was purely down to having a style that worked against Pac. Nothing more.

The Norwood and John fights were not controversial in the slightest. People just like to claim that to defend Marquez and try and make out his resume is better than it really is. They were close fights, but Marquez did lose them.

The Barrera that Marquez beat was clearly well past his best. I wouldn't go round making a big song and dance about it.

Rocky Juarez was a nobody. Claiming a win over him isn't really worth the time.

You think Marquez beating a shot to pieces Alvarado is better than Barrera beating Ayala? Wow!! No it isn't. That's crazy.

You do know that Barrera beat Agapito Sanchez first don't you?

I don't care if Diaz was young and hungry, he's still only a good fighter. A good fighter that was dominating and beating the living **** out of Marquez for about 6 rounds until he was cut and completely lost his way.

Casamayor wasn't the true champ either, he was clearly beat by Cruz in a massive robbery. He was finished by the time Marquez got to him so it meant nothing. Throw in the fact that Casamayor was winning the fight before Marquez stopped him late. That isn't a good look. But hey, there is a lot in Marquez's career that wasn't a good look.

I still think Barrera was the better fighter with the better resume. But if you think differently, then that's fine. But I disagree.

He wasn't getting the **** beaten out of him by Diaz. He'd lost some early rounds by was even after 6 and cut him a couple rounds later. He was up after 8 rounds in Diaz hometown. He also wasn't losing to Casamayor. Officially he was ahead and at best Casamayor won 4 rounds but that's generous. Marquez took over around the middle of that fight.

The Norwood and John fights people knew they were robberies even when they happened and before Marquez had a fan base. I've noticed overtime people have tried to use them as legit losses but both were absurd decisions.

You are immensely underselling the Pacquaio fights but it seems you just don't like Marquez. He was able to give Pacquaio more than just problems and with more than just one style.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Who do you think has the greater legacy? I think Barrera's losses against Pacquiao and Jones might hurt him but that trilogy with Morales was great and he won two out of the three plus he handed Nas his first loss.

Really good question man, it has me torn. Overall, I’d have to edge it to Marquez I don’t even know what I’m justifying it on if I’m honest because they both have similar accomplishments, both have great resume’s and both had good longevity in their careers. I just feel JMM’s was slightly better. Marquez arguably has the better win and the manner in which he chillingly KO’d Pac certainly adds to his legacy, plus JMM was a 4 weight champ compared to Barrera who was a 2/3 weight champion depending how you define his 126 run. Add to that Marquez clearly beat Barrera who was admittedly past his best, I’ll have to edge it to Marquez.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

It's Barrera. Remove the Pac fights from Marquez and all you have is a load of not very good fighters. Hell, he even lost to some of them too.

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 so you’re claiming Barrera, Mayweather, Bradley, Diaz, Casamayor etc are a “load of not very good fighters”😭😭😭😭
Do you even watch boxing??????

[chrisJS]

Really good question man, it has me torn. Overall, I’d have to edge it to Marquez I don’t even know what I’m justifying it on if I’m honest because they both have similar accomplishments, both have great resume’s and both had good longevity in their careers. I just feel JMM’s was slightly better. Marquez arguably has the better win and the manner in which he chillingly KO’d Pac certainly adds to his legacy, plus JMM was a 4 weight champ compared to Barrera who was a 2/3 weight champion depending how you define his 126 run. Add to that Marquez clearly beat Barrera who was admittedly past his best, I’ll have to edge it to Marquez.

Yeah, I guess technically he wasn't champion at 126 but I tend to still count it. He did unify at 130, but Marquez did so at 126 and 135. I felt he deserved the "W" over Morales in fight I which would have given him two unification's (though I felt he lost the second fight) but Marquez was robbed against Pacquaio at 147 so he should be a 5 division titlist.

I think Marquez is clearly better than Morales and Barrera which is a much closer debate and one that I give a slight edge towards Barrera.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Yeah, I guess technically he wasn't champion at 126 but I tend to still count it. He did unify at 130, but Marquez did so at 126 and 135. I felt he deserved the "W" over Morales in fight I which would have given him two unification's (though I felt he lost the second fight) but Marquez was robbed against Pacquaio at 147 so he should be a 5 division titlist.

I think Marquez is clearly better than Morales and Barrera which is a much closer debate and one that I give a slight edge towards Barrera.

Him beating Naz made him lineal champ so I consider him a 3 weight champ myself.
I scored the first fight to Morales tbh, what a fight that was! Round 5 is one of the best rounds I’ve watched.
As for how I rank them: I’d also go Marquez 1, Barrera 2, Morales 3 but it’s very close IMO, but I think Marquez being the better skilled fighter gives him the edge, plus he arguably had a better career. Certainly close between Barrera-Morales but I think the fact Barrera won the trilogy gives him the edge.

[Sid-Knee]

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 so you’re claiming Barrera, Mayweather, Bradley, Diaz, Casamayor etc are a “load of not very good fighters”😭😭😭😭
Do you even watch boxing??????

Of course i'm not including Mayweather or Bradley in that. I'm talking about the kind of fighters he mostly fought.

Barrera was well past his best by the time Marquez got to him. And Casamayor was practically shot. He was losing that fight until the stoppage.

Diaz is nothing more than a good fighter, but was able to beat the **** out of Marquez for half the fight until a cut he received sent his head scrambling. This happened a lot with Marquez, good fighters or shot ones were able to give him serious trouble. He's a great fighter, but he does get overrated by a lot of people.

[Sid-Knee]

Him beating Naz made him lineal champ so I consider him a 3 weight champ myself.
I scored the first fight to Morales tbh, what a fight that was! Round 5 is one of the best rounds I’ve watched.
As for how I rank them: I’d also go Marquez 1, Barrera 2, Morales 3 but it’s very close IMO, but I think Marquez being the better skilled fighter gives him the edge, plus he arguably had a better career. Certainly close between Barrera-Morales but I think the fact Barrera won the trilogy gives him the edge.

I'm not surprised you had Morales winning the first fight considering you had Porter beating Brook.

Most people had Barrera as did I. 8-4 for me. Think you need to work on your fight scoring a bit. It's quite shocking to say the least.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

I'm not surprised you had Morales winning the first fight considering you had Porter beating Brook.

Most people had Barrera as did I. 8-4 for me. Think you need to work on your fight scoring a bit. It's quite shocking to say the least.

Nah it’s a just a subjective sport, you need to gain a further understanding of it, by doing so you won’t refer to fighters like, Casamayor, Barrera, Salido, Gainer, Norwood, John etc as “a load of not very good fighters”.🙈🙈