How would James Toney fair in today's HW division?

[boliodogs]

Toney was amazingly good at heavyweight for such a small fat guy. He had a great chin and he beat some good heavyweights. He would probably be a top 5th or 6th best heavyweight today if he was at his heavyweight best. He is just too small to beat Wilder, AJ, Parker, Miller and Ortiz. He wasn't much of a puncher at heavyweight but he was a good boxer with a surprisingly high punch output per round. The 45 year old foreman would still be dangerous for any heavyweight fighting today. Foreman was hard to hurt and he hit hard enough to KO any of today's rather easy to hit heavyweights. He was a true heavyweight with real heavyweight power so he would be a threat to any of today's heavyweights but I would favor AJ, Wilder and Parker to beat him. He was slow. I think he would beat Ortiz because Ortiz is slower than he is with less power and stamina.

[alexguiness]

Alot of very tough, durable HWs look fat and unconditioned.

But it is the lean, over muscled guys like Joshua that gas quickly and start throwing arm punches after 6 rounds.

[boliodogs]

He couldn't even KO little 208lb Holyfield, not even Usyk or Gassiev come that light on fight night and they're actually cruisers.

An awful lot of great heavyweight champions weighed less than 208 pounds for some of their title defenses. Joe Louis 198 pounds. Marciano 184 pounds. Ali was as light as 202. Dempsey 187 pounds. Jack Johnson 190 pounds and many other heavyweight champs weighed well below 208 pounds. In case you are going to say we are in a new era of great giant heavyweights consider that Wilder weighed 214 pounds for Ortiz. 208 lean pounds isn't that small of a heavyweight. It's big enough to be the best if the fighter has the skills, heart and stamina. Many of today's 240 to 260 pound heavyweights are very fat and would weigh about 205 to 220 if they were lean. The 208 pound Holyfield was very lean.

[BM dnobagaV]

Please, imagine Wilder landing a bomb and Toney shaking his head, "nope"

[Cutthroat]

An awful lot of great heavyweight champions weighed less than 208 pounds for some of their title defenses. Joe Louis 198 pounds. Marciano 184 pounds. Ali was as light as 202. Dempsey 187 pounds. Jack Johnson 190 pounds and many other heavyweight champs weighed well below 208 pounds. In case you are going to say we are in a new era of great giant heavyweights consider that Wilder weighed 214 pounds for Ortiz. 208 lean pounds isn't that small of a heavyweight. It's big enough to be the best if the fighter has the skills, heart and stamina. Many of today's 240 to 260 pound heavyweights are very fat and would weigh about 205 to 220 if they were lean. The 208 pound Holyfield was very lean.

The world population is literally around double what it is in the 1970's, it was 3.7 billion in 1975, and around 8 billion today. Being the best out of 3 billion people in 1960 isn't the same as being the best out of 8 billion people in 2018. You can't compare guys like Marciano, Louis, to today's era.

Wilder is 6'7 with a massive reach and lean muscle, and lost weight due to an illness, he's normally around 220. He's also the hardest puncher of all time.

[Cutthroat]

Alot of very tough, durable HWs look fat and unconditioned.

But it is the lean, over muscled guys like Joshua that gas quickly and start throwing arm punches after 6 rounds.

AJ blitzes his opponents early so of course he's going to gas, when you have a 6'6 250lb boxer throwing everything at you it's incredibly difficult to survive. Vitali once gassed badly vs an out of shape Lewis far worse than AJ did.

[Cutthroat]

are you suggesting Usuk and Gassiev are as durable as Holyfield? nah. Holyfield would take clean bombs to the chin for 12 rounds with no problem. there's no heavyweight today that durable. period. Foreman starches everybody. I'm not even gonna mention young prime Foreman cuz he'll literally body bag these fools. I'm just talking 45 year old George.

Holyfield was taking bombs from guys that don't posses the power of a Wilder, AJ, or an Ortiz. He was a small 208lb HW at the end of the day that once struggled with a 5'5 cruiser in Qawi. What about Qawi, how do you think a 5'5 Qawi would deal with a 6'4 Gassiev?

Old Foreman could barely beat journeymen like Stewart, later losing to a glass chinned Morrison. Even in his prime he was getting dropped by Lyle, losing to Young.

Maybe this HW division isn't as great as people remember it to be when guys like Douglas were knocking out Tyson, Tyson going the distance with part time boxers, Holyfield was getting into a slug fest with a 45 year old obese man, Lewis was getting sparked out by Rahman etc. or Toney was drawing with Rahman and Peter. You shouldn't over think it, it is what it looks like, a weak division compared to what it is now.

[Cutthroat]

Please, imagine Wilder landing a bomb and Toney shaking his head, "nope"

The only shaking would be Toney's body convulsing on the floor.

[Illmatic94]

Holyfield was taking bombs from guys that don't posses the power of a Wilder, AJ, or an Ortiz. He was a small 208lb HW at the end of the day that once struggled with a 5'5 cruiser in Qawi. What about Qawi, how do you think a 5'5 Qawi would deal with a 6'4 Gassiev?

Old Foreman could barely beat journeymen like Stewart, later losing to a glass chinned Morrison. Even in his prime he was getting dropped by Lyle, losing to Young.

Maybe this HW division isn't as great as people remember it to be when guys like Douglas were knocking out Tyson, Tyson going the distance with part time boxers, Holyfield was getting into a slug fest with a 45 year old obese man, Lewis was getting sparked out by Rahman etc. or Toney was drawing with Rahman and Peter. You shouldn't over think it, it is what it looks like, a weak division compared to what it is now.

put it like this.. I would pick 45 yr old Foreman to spark out AJ, Wilder, Parker and Ortiz.

[Cutthroat]

put it like this.. I would pick 45 yr old Foreman to spark out AJ, Wilder, Parker and Ortiz.

45 year old Foreman could barely get by Stewart. Foreman was great in his era and proved it in the 90's, but in this era there are no 208lb fighters in the top 10 at HW. Instead you're looking at a 45 year old stationary fighter with terrible defense fighting 6'7 monsters. That version of Foreman would be dominated by a guy like Brezeale or Hughie Fury. Foreman was the bigger man in like over 90% of his total matches and fought some very small heavies in his era.

This era is concentrated with super heavies, Foreman would have to give up that physical advantage which made him so special in his own era.