Virgil Hunter is Overrated

[Eff Pandas]

Tyson had success afterwards precisely BECAUSE of the foundation that Cus laid down.

Even though his skills slowly deteriorated more and more as time went by the fundamentals that were ingrained in him were enough to keep him winning for a while.

Thats an argument to make. Tyson might be a bad example to have brought up cuz idk if he'd have learned boxing from as quality a mind as D'Amato for his particular build/physical attributes if not for D'Amato.

I mean does Angelo Dundee make a Mike Tyson? Idk about that. Does Eddie Futch even make a Mike Tyson with his Joe Frazier history? Idk about that one either, but Futch would likely have been better than Dundee for him.

So bad example by me perhaps there. But mainly I think high level trainers are gonna take high level fighters to a high level (how high is the question cuz I assume some trainers will get you higher than others but idk that its about the quality of the trainer so much as the adaptability of the trainer + boxer) assuming there aren't personality conflicts or other sorta bs that gets into the mix that hurts the trainer/boxer relationship.

[alexguiness]

Hunter was never any good to start with.

He just fooled alot of people with his creepy whispering.

[BoloPuncher1]

I too was puzzled as to why Virgil was staying outside the ring in between rounds.
For whatever reason, he doesn't seem to connect to these veteran fighters he's hired to train.
As far as the fight last night, Uzcategui fought a really smart, controlled fight and turned it on when he needed to.
I also believe Dirrell is nearing or at the end of his career.

[cork]

In general I think trainers are overrated. Thats not to say any a$$hole sitting in a gym with a towel around his neck can train you. But I think most guys who achieve big things were gonna achieve them, within a certain margin of error, with a lot of high level trainers.

I mean look at a guy like Mike Tyson. If he'd have had Cuz D'Amato & Kevin Rooney as his brain trust for longer he'd likely have reached a higher peak (imo anyway), but later after Cus passed & Rooney was dumped, Tyson with mfers who used a condom for an enswell was winning/defending world titles.

Specifically with this fight it seemed like neither Hunter OR Dirrell were fully into their particular tasks last night. It was a weird a$$ situation. Dirrell didn't seem to trust or listen to Hunter & Hunter wasn't even bothering to get in the ring past a certain round I don't think. To me it looked like Stitch called the fight, maybe cuz he knew the whole story before & during the fight as an observer, but I couldn't quite makeout the audio so idk that for sure. Either way this didn't seem like a fighter/trainer matchup that was "working" before this fight from how quick things went south in this fight.

What about lomachenko dad? Dud was the coach of the Ukrainian boxing team and it seems like all of those guys have really solid foundation. Seems like a great coach for me but i do agree with you to an extent. Without talent the trainer isn't going anywhere.

[Eff Pandas]

What about lomachenko dad? Dud was the coach of the Ukrainian boxing team and it seems like all of those guys have really solid foundation. Seems like a great coach for me but i do agree with you to an extent. Without talent the trainer isn't going anywhere.

I feel like a high level trainer would probably take a regular non-special, non-high level boxer to a HIGHER peak vs his natural abilities than he could take a high level fighter. Cuz there are a lot of basic things well taught that I think would greatly enhance the average schmo with boxing gloves on & it'd be harder to upgrade a special fighter as much with those same tactics/training habits.

To be clear & for an example I think if a guy is a 8/10 on natural skills/abilities for boxing, a special fighter lets say, a high level trainer can get him to a 9 or 10/10. But if a guy is a 3/10 on natural skills/abilities for boxing, a average guy who's not necessarily an athlete or not THAT athletic, a high level trainer might doubled him up to a 6 or 7/10.

[Scipio2009]

lol

fighters go to him on the strength of Andre Ward. but Ward is god given talent.

Hunter has never improved anybody that he trains.

in the Dirrell fight he just gave up on his fighter. didn't even bother to go to the ropes in between rounds just barking orders from a distance.

time to be real he is an overrated trainer.

Hunter improved Angulo, Hunter improved Berto, and Hunter has done wonders to improve Amir Khan (it took four camps, but Hunter had gotten through to Khan so well that he was basically out boxing Saul Alvarez for 4 rounds before he started to lose his focus).

Not all style fits are successful (Mares came in, fought well under Virgil Hunter, but didn't really fight like Abner Mares so he chose to head elsewhere. Fonfara was only in his second fight when he got put back in with Adonis Stevenson, so that's basically an incomplete at this point). Let's see how Peter Quillin ends up looking with Hunter (they've quietly been working together for over a year at this point, with Quillin having already gotten his first 8-rounder out of the way, so let's see how the rebuild goes).

Beyond that, Virgil Hunter basically has 3-5 pups that he's basically developing from the ground up: Tony Yoka, his cruiserweight, Mario Barrios, and Joey Spencer, with others likely there that no one knows about just yet.

Don't let the hate consume you, lol

[ShoulderRoll]

Hunter improved Angulo, Hunter improved Berto, and Hunter has done wonders to improve Amir Khan (it took four camps, but Hunter had gotten through to Khan so well that he was basically out boxing Saul Alvarez for 4 rounds before he started to lose his focus).

Not all style fits are successful (Mares came in, fought well under Virgil Hunter, but didn't really fight like Abner Mares so he chose to head elsewhere. Fonfara was only in his second fight when he got put back in with Adonis Stevenson, so that's basically an incomplete at this point). Let's see how Peter Quillin ends up looking with Hunter (they've quietly been working together for over a year at this point, with Quillin having already gotten his first 8-rounder out of the way, so let's see how the rebuild goes).

Beyond that, Virgil Hunter basically has 3-5 pups that he's basically developing from the ground up: Tony Yoka, his cruiserweight, Mario Barrios, and Joey Spencer, with others likely there that no one knows about just yet.

Don't let the hate consume you, lol

How did Hunter improve Angulo, though?

There's video where he says that he left Virgil because he couldn't really tailor his approach to fit in with a Mexican style fighter.

[Stinger1]

Proof for Virgil will be with Tony Yoka. IF he can take an Olympic gold medalist and mould him into a heavyweight world champion would confirm he's a great trainer for me. A lot of fighters who've reached world level already have ingrained habits that are very difficult to change.

[Scipio2009]

How did Hunter improve Angulo, though?

There's video where he says that he left Virgil because he couldn't really tailor his approach to fit in with a Mexican style fighter.

Whether Virgil could "tailor his approach to fit in with a Mexican style fighter", he was able to get Angulo to better find his space to fire his shots on the inside, while also helping build Angulo, the man, up better to be able to get through the rough patches needed for him to have his chance to succeed.

Hunter was never going to make Angulo Andre Ward, and I doubt that he even tried to, tbh, but there were clear things that Virgil Hunter was able to show and teach Angulo that helped round out what Angulo had already been taught.

For whatever reason, Virgil Hunter has seemed to become a type of "last chance saloon" for guys that Virgil sees as having something left to offer the sport, which is commendable imo.

If Angulo wanted to fight a certain way, that's his perogative to seek that out.

[Motorcity Cobra]

Fighters seem to come to him when they're broken.