Comments Thread For: DiBella: Hearn Wouldn't Make Joshua-Ortiz; Don't Question Wilder

[N/A]

Stiverne was not rated higher than Povetkin or Tyson Fury

In some cases, yes he was. Those three were all very highly rated in the major independent ratings and the order varied.

Ring had them: Povetkin, Stiverne, Fury
ESPN had them: Stiverne, Povetkin, Fury
TBRB had them: Povetkin, Fury, Stiverne

Signing to fight Povetkin looks good, but upon a further glimpse that was done on circumstances that were in Wilder's favor.

He agreed to go to the most corrupt sports country in the world to defend his title in enemy territory. That obliterates any claim Wilder won't fight the best. Any nitpicking is futile. It's not his fault Povetkin cheated. We can't criticize Wilder for a weak resume when his biggest challenges keep cheating. Criticize the resume, sure, but you can't criticize Wilder. He clearly wants to fight the best. Who else would make a voluntary against King Kong?!?

He could have fought Povetkin in September of 2015 but did not, and was supposed to fight him in January 2016 but didn't. The Povetkin fight against Wach could have been scrapped if the Wilder fight was made.

Woah woah woah, I don't know where you get your info, but this is WAY off base. Povetkin defied the WBC order by taking another fight instead of Wilder. Wilder was ready, willing and able to abide by the WBC order. You can't blame Wilder for the delay. Povetkin blatantly stalled. The WBC order was clear about when the negotiation period would begin and Povetkin just blew it off.

Haymon/DiBella/Finkel hasn't paid Wilder more than 1.5 million in a fight before or since.

How could you possibly know that? Honestly. You have zero ****ing idea what they pay Wilder. I know you're going by what's filed with the commission, but you're being (at best) extremely naive or (at worst) purposely misleading. Unless you truly believe Miguel Cotto was only paid 750k for his retirement fight?

We're going to have to stop there because I can only take so much false information in one post. You've reached your limit. Address these inaccuracies and then I'll be happy to move on to other topics.

[champion4ever]

I'm also pretty sure that there's nothing i've put above that you can dispute thus your claims strike me as nothing more than bias.

Now you are judging me. You are impugning my integrity all because I've asked you a very simple and honest question. I must have hit a nerve.

Whatever you say man. However, keep in mind that this was the same organization that was willing to give Joshua a mandatory exemption by giving him their blessing for a rematch with Wladimir Klitschko back in August 2017 until Wlad retire that very same month.

So in my honest opinion, I don't that think giving Joshua time to defend his WBA title first, would have been a major stumbling block for AJ. I'm pretty sure they would have granted it to him if so requested.

[champion4ever]

What are you on about?? The IBF called for their mandatory to be first over the WBA. Ortiz was going to be next but he went after Wilder instead, failing a drug test in the process.

Get it right will you.

No you are wrong. When Ortiz became the WBA's mandatory; His team had threatened legal action against Hearn, Joshua and the WBA in particular because they had refused to honor their own rules and bylaws by denying Ortiz his opportunity to challenge for that WBA title.

However, it wasn't until Deontay Wilder stepped up and voluntarily decided to give him an opportunity to challenge for his WBC title, that he decided to back off and drop his redress of grievances or legal action against them. All of this happened before Ortiz got popped for failing his drug test.

[champion4ever]

Joshua didn't choose Kubrat Pulev, the IBF mandatory was due before the WBA mandatory.

This is common knowledge, and it's also common sense that he must fight the mandatory that is due first otherwise he ges stripped of his title.

But common sense is not common to all of us it seems, some of us (us as in you) seem not to possess it.

No personal attacks please. Here are the facts. Back in January of 2017 Luis Ortiz was the WBA's mandatory challenger for Wladimir Klitschko's title. They wrote a letter of resolution to both Wladimir Klitschko and Anthony Joshua stating that the winner of their title bout had 120 days to start negotiations to challenge Luis Ortiz for a mandatory bout or face the strong possibility of being stripped for that title.

However, they reneged upon that resolution once Klitschko and Joshua had decided to have a rematch by giving Joshua an exemption. However, when Wlad retired in 2017 and the rematch didn't happen. They sent another letter to Team Joshua and Luis Ortiz ordering the mandatory fight and gave the Joshua and Ortiz camps 30 days to make a deal, or a purse bid will be ordered.

[JRB123]

In some cases, yes he was. Those three were all very highly rated in the major independent ratings and the order varied.

Ring had them: Povetkin, Stiverne, Fury
ESPN had them: Stiverne, Povetkin, Fury
TBRB had them: Povetkin, Fury, Stiverne

I don't know why Stiverne was rated that high given that he didn't have much competition himself before winning the vacant WBC title. He hadn't really had a valid win up to that point.

Others on those rankings back then may not have had that win yet, but Stiverne hadn't proven himself then or since.

He agreed to go to the most corrupt sports country in the world to defend his title in enemy territory. That obliterates any claim Wilder won't fight the best. Any nitpicking is futile. It's not his fault Povetkin cheated. We can't criticize Wilder for a weak resume when his biggest challenges keep cheating. Criticize the resume, sure, but you can't criticize Wilder. He clearly wants to fight the best. Who else would make a voluntary against King Kong?!?

Again, we disagree. You are bringing up Povetkin and Ortiz like those override the times where he side-stepped fights. It does not.

First, you have Tyson Fury that wanted to fight Wilder and had his sights set on him for 2014, and that could have happened while Stiverne and Arreola were fighting for the WBC title.

""We have had talks with Wilder's people and we are in discussions at the moment, but obviously there are a lot of pieces of the jigsaw we need to fit together," said Hennessy.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/25025324

Next, you have Bryant Jennings who wanted to fight Wilder on two separate occasions but was brushed off both times. The first one was scheduled for December 8th 2012, but that was declined by Wilder and his team. It was reported to be a 50-50 offer, but a "no" was given with the response that Wilder had something bigger lined up on Showtime. Wilder ended up fighting Kelvin Price. That is not a better fight than one against Jennings.

The second one that I point out is in 2015, when Wilder had the WBC title. You did mention that Povetkin had the fight against Mariusz Wach in November, which may have given Wilder permission to have one more voluntary defense. One guy that wanted to step up for that defense is Jennings, who at the time was ready to fight him. However, that did not come close to happening as Gary Shaw said that Jennings was not even considered as an opponent even though Jennings was #5 in the WBC rankings.

http://www.espn.com/blog/dan-rafael/...t-in-the-cards

"Jennings, he's a type of guy that looks for the money instead of the opportunity. I've always talked about that I like guys who look for the opportunity instead of the money." - Deontay Wilder

Wait a second...is this the same guy that turned down a 50-50 offer to fight Jennings three years before? You would have to explain that one.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/10/deontay_wilder_talks_american.html

Again, Jennings was ranked #5 in the WBC and Wilder passed on fighting him, but signed to fight Artur Szpilka who was knocked out by Jennings in 2014. On the flip side, Jennings fought Luis Ortiz, the same guy that too many people are giving credit to Wilder for fighting.

Someone will have to explain that as well.

I know you're going by what's filed with the commission, but you're being (at best) extremely naive or (at worst) purposely misleading. Unless you truly believe Miguel Cotto was only paid 750k for his retirement fight?

Cotto was paid much more than 750k. We all know that. In reference to Wilder, I am going by what is filed because he is different as far as back-end deals or endorsements compared to others. He is not at the level of a Cotto, Canelo, or even Joshua. Shoot, I found out recently that he is part of a reality show with her main chick.

Now since I broke down your response, I have a request...

Explain to me how Luis Ortiz is this "Boogeyman" that people speak of and that Wilder was the one that "stepped up" to fight Luis Ortiz. Since you seem to be well-versed in history, I want your take on this.

I await your response.

[JRB123]

Back in January of 2017 Luis Ortiz was the WBA's mandatory challenger for Wladimir Klitschko's title. They wrote a letter of resolution to both Wladimir Klitschko and Anthony Joshua stating that the winner of their title bout had 120 days to start negotiations to challenge Luis Ortiz for a mandatory bout or face the strong possibility of being stripped for that title.

However, they reneged upon that resolution once Klitschko and Joshua had decided to have a rematch by giving Joshua an exemption. However, when Wlad retired in 2017 and the rematch didn't happen. They sent another letter to Team Joshua and Luis Ortiz ordering the mandatory fight and gave the Joshua and Ortiz camps 30 days to make a deal, or a purse bid will be ordered.

I would like to request an explanation for this as well, due to what the WBA chairman wrote on November 1st 2016.

[john l]

About what sums it up here !

??????????

[N/A]

I don't know why Stiverne was rated that high given that he didn't have much competition himself before winning the vacant WBC title. He hadn't really had a valid win up to that point.

His best win was the first Arreola fight. At the time, Fury's best win was Chisora. Those wins are comparable. Stiverne won the WBC championship. That can't be dismissed. If you win the most important championship in the division, you're going to be highly ranked in the division. Fury's best win was for the EBU title, which is one of the WBC's continental federations. So Fury was literally a WBC continental champion, while Stiverne was the WBC world champion. Hard to see the logic in ranking Fury above Stiverne at that point.

Again, we disagree. You are bringing up Povetkin and Ortiz like those override the times where he side-stepped fights. It does not.

Of course it over rides it! You can't compare somebody being coddled on their way up the rankings to the fights they take once they're the world champion. You take the fights you have to take to get your shot at the title. Finkel is the greatest manager in the history of heavyweight boxing. I'm not going to question the path he chose for Wilder when he was successful in his championship opportunity.

If your position is that Wilder was carefully guided to the title, I agree with you. If your position is that Wilder has ducked tough fights since winning the title, I can't disagree more. I have no interest in debating Wilder's path to his title shot as we seem to agree that Finkel was very cautious. My position is that Wilder has been willing to take on big challenges since winning the title and that he's been robbed of the glory that would have come had he been successful because others decided to cheat.

Cotto was paid much more than 750k. We all know that. In reference to Wilder, I am going by what is filed because he is different as far as back-end deals or endorsements compared to others.

Endorsements have nothing to do with it. As for back-end deals, you have absolutely no idea what Wilder's financial arrangements are. There's absolutely no reason to believe his filed purse is accurate when filing an accurate purse for a premium cable A-side is extremely extremely rare.

Cotto is not the exception. He's the rule. Numerous PBC fighters have admitted their filed purses are bull****, only to be scolded for opening their mouths. It's an open secret in the industry that filed purses are bogus for the majority of top fighters. So there's no logical reason to believe that Wilder's filed purse reflects his true compensation.

[Thaim]

Hearn is like a protective parent. Maybe there is a reason, I don't know.

[JRB123]

His best win was the first Arreola fight. At the time, Fury's best win was Chisora. Those wins are comparable. Stiverne won the WBC championship. That can't be dismissed. If you win the most important championship in the division, you're going to be highly ranked in the division. Fury's best win was for the EBU title, which is one of the WBC's continental federations. So Fury was literally a WBC continental champion, while Stiverne was the WBC world champion. Hard to see the logic in ranking Fury above Stiverne at that point.

Sorry brother...I'm not going to give the WBC credit as the most important championship at that time when Wladimir had the other belts for a long time and fought better contenders. So there is not much that can be said about this because no one was really out there saying that Stiverne was a valid champion like that. Especially when he only had one defense and it was six months after he won the belt.

According to the rules of the WBC, a champ is supposed to defend the belt within 90 to 120 days.

"a WBC champion should strive to defend the title in mandatory or voluntary defenses at least three (3) times a year, unless a written exception or extension is granted by the WBC in its sole discretion. Therefore, a WBC champion should strive to defend his title at least every one hundred twenty (120) days unless otherwise permitted by the WBC in its sole discretion. Upon winning a title, a WBC champion must defend the title within 90 to 120 days or as otherwise ordered by the WBC, unless otherwise ordered or
permitted by the WBC in its sole discretion."

So with Stiverne on the shelf for over 4 months, he should have been stripped.

If your position is that Wilder was carefully guided to the title, I agree with you. If your position is that Wilder has ducked tough fights since winning the title, I can't disagree more. I have no interest in debating Wilder's path to his title shot as we seem to agree that Finkel was very cautious. My position is that Wilder has been willing to take on big challenges since winning the title and that he's been robbed of the glory that would have come had he been successful because others decided to cheat.

I just brought up Bryant Jennings as a challenger for the WBC title. You can't tell me that Duhaupas and Szpilka are more valid opponents than Jennings is...especially when Jennings beat Szpilka. I just can't accept that.

Endorsements have nothing to do with it. As for back-end deals, you have absolutely no idea what Wilder's financial arrangements are. There's absolutely no reason to believe his filed purse is accurate when filing an accurate purse for a premium cable A-side is extremely extremely rare.

Cotto is not the exception. He's the rule. Numerous PBC fighters have admitted their filed purses are bull****, only to be scolded for opening their mouths. It's an open secret in the industry that filed purses are bogus for the majority of top fighters. So there's no logical reason to believe that Wilder's filed purse reflects his true compensation.

I'm not just talking about his appearances on Showtime, I'm including the fights that are on NBC as well. However, I would not put it past those in the PBC to over-exaggerate the earnings of their fighters.

It may be why some have left the PBC circuit over the past few years.