Comments Thread For: Bellew: I'm Disgusted - Drug Cheats Must Be Banned For Life!

[Ray*]

No, there really isn't.

Like i said previously i don't believe that. They should be ban period. I do believe there are natural and clean athletes in sport.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Like i said previously i don't believe that. They should be ban period. I do believe there are natural and clean athletes in sport.

No, 100% clean and 100% average humans living in most 1st world countries that are non-athletes don't even exist.

Even the very meat and beef that many humans consume in 1st world countries are pumped with steroids. Thus, a normal / average human consuming those foods can be classified as someone consuming performance enhancing drugs. Simply because of consuming ARTIFICIAL CHEMICALS.

So no, you can deny and reject reality all you want by pretending that there exists 100% clean and 100% natural athletes in the 21st century that is predominantly an artificial world and an unnatural world full of artificial chemicals and substances. However, anyone who is open minded, objective and has a high enough IQ level would know that such a thing no longer exists. It maybe did in the caveman era but not today. And you can't argue against my points as a result.

[Ray*]

No, 100% clean and 100% average humans living in most 1st world countries that are non-athletes don't even exist.

Doesn't matter if it 1st or 3rd world countries, i believe there are clean athletes/boxers out there. Nothing is going to change that opinion of mine. So ban anyone for life who is caught or on any type of designed drugs.

When everyone is ban then we would see the clean and natural ones. Probably slower than we are used to but still natural and clean.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Doesn't matter if it 1st or 3rd world countries, i believe there are clean athletes/boxers out there. Nothing is going to change that opinion of mine. So ban anyone for life who is caught or on any type of designed drugs.

You can believe whatever you want or have whatever opinion you want. I'm stating FACTS! You can believe the Earth is flat and the sky is pink as an opinion, but FACTS suggest otherwise. Thus, facts > your opinion and personal baseless belief.

[sweeterscience]

This is the 21st century. There exists no such as a 100% clean and a natural athlete in a world that is more than 50% unnatural and unclean.

What constitutes as a legal / illegal performance enhancing drug is totally subjective. Certain illegal drugs are less beneficial than legal drugs.

You can't ban 100% of all performance enhancing drug in the 21st century that is as artificial as it is. In order to achieve this goal, the world has to be converted back to how it was during the stone ages where athletes give up on using any of the 21st century chemical and medical technology for improving their lives. that means, no pain killers, no paracetamols and none of those other chemicals for consumption. As even those things can be classified as 'performance enhancing drugs'.

You see, this idea is totally ******ed! If boxing were to ban every athlete that was consuming performance enhancing drugs in the 21st century, then the sport of boxing simply wouldn't even exist any longer.

The ones who are banned or penalized for performance enhancing drugs are ALWAYS the B side boxers who are usually fatter and less muscular whilst the boxers who never get penalized are the A side boxers who are usually more muscular and have less fat. In other words, drug testing is simply a scam.

Telling a 21st century athlete to not use performance enhancing drugs in the 21st century is like telling a 21st century formula 1 driver that they aren't allowed to use 21st century car technology during competition. It makes absolutely no sense! How can any athlete today, especially at the top level be 100% clean / natural in a world that is as artificial / unnatural as it is today? We're not living during the spartan era anymore. There is no need to ban performance enhancing drugs. Rather, performance enhancing drugs should be allowed by any athlete.

You make some really interesting and well thought-out points that I admit--however grudgingly--deserve consideration.

I definitely take your point about how "clean" is a relative statement as there was a time when plenty of supplements you can now purchase at a grocery were banned and perceived to give combat athletes unsporting and unnatural advantages. There is probably no getting around that.

My major lingering concern, considering your post on the issue, about just giving up the ghost on drug testing and letting fighters essentially take whatever they like is that I believe it would lead to a big spike in fighter deaths and traumatic injuries both in training, during fights and during the post-fight recovery period. Sadly, I believe that the lack of any attempt at regulation would be somewhat like an honor system cash register at a liquor store. Guys would just go nuts trying to out juice their opponents to their extreme medical detriment. Nonetheless, I see your point.

Perhaps I am being somewhat idealistic, but the idea of combat sports being transparently as much a chemistry contest as a test of wills and bodies is rather awful. But, again, maybe it already is largely a chemistry contest, just less obviously so.

However, I would also have a somewhat hard time taking the rails off of drug testing when I consider the change in weigh-ins from the day of the fight to about 36 hours before. As you probably know, the weigh-ins were moved back for fear of the increased risk of brain injury that came of guys dehydrating to make weight, then fighting with the liquid barrier between the brain and skull diminished. Though my data is anecdotal, it certainly seems that fighters these days end up more frequently punch drunk despite shorter careers with far fewer fights and far less brutal fights and seem to have less sturdy chins.

Anyhow, I was glad to read your response. It's a good conversation to have as sport science continues to evolve.

[Ray*]

You can believe whatever you want or have whatever opinion you want. I'm stating FACTS! .

Nah your opinion isn’t facts lol. Am sure NOT believing your opinion as facts.

[Holler]

You can believe whatever you want or have whatever opinion you want. I'm stating FACTS! You can believe the Earth is flat and the sky is pink as an opinion, but FACTS suggest otherwise. Thus, facts > your opinion and personal baseless belief.

You honestly need a new username. No offence, but most of the stuff you post is anything but objective. You can claim your opinion is FACTS as much as you like, it remains your opinion.

[Mr Objecitivity]

You honestly need a new username. No offence, but most of the stuff you post is anything but objective. You can claim your opinion is FACTS as much as you like, it remains your opinion.

Ad Hominem attack committed by you = you are dismissed!

[Mr Objecitivity]

You make some really interesting and well thought-out points that I admit--however grudgingly--deserve consideration.

I definitely take your point about how "clean" is a relative statement as there was a time when plenty of supplements you can now purchase at a grocery were banned and perceived to give combat athletes unsporting and unnatural advantages. There is probably no getting around that.

My major lingering concern, considering your post on the issue, about just giving up the ghost on drug testing and letting fighters essentially take whatever they like is that I believe it would lead to a big spike in fighter deaths and traumatic injuries both in training, during fights and during the post-fight recovery period. Sadly, I believe that the lack of any attempt at regulation would be somewhat like an honor system cash register at a liquor store. Guys would just go nuts trying to out juice their opponents to their extreme medical detriment. Nonetheless, I see your point.

Perhaps I am being somewhat idealistic, but the idea of combat sports being transparently as much a chemistry contest as a test of wills and bodies is rather awful. But, again, maybe it already is largely a chemistry contest, just less obviously so.

However, I would also have a somewhat hard time taking the rails off of drug testing when I consider the change in weigh-ins from the day of the fight to about 36 hours before. As you probably know, the weigh-ins were moved back for fear of the increased risk of brain injury that came of guys dehydrating to make weight, then fighting with the liquid barrier between the brain and skull diminished. Though my data is anecdotal, it certainly seems that fighters these days end up more frequently punch drunk despite shorter careers with far fewer fights and far less brutal fights and seem to have less sturdy chins.

Anyhow, I was glad to read your response. It's a good conversation to have as sport science continues to evolve.

The truth and reality is, amount off deaths and injuries occurring would remain the same, either way. If everyone is allowed to consume whatever performance enhancing drugs they wanted to, then the number of deaths and injuries that would occur would remain the same as if everyone were not consuming any performance enhancing drugs.

The only deviation that would occur is if there is an uneven playing field. That is, if one boxer was allowed to consume performance enhancing drugs whilst his opponent wasn't. And if that trend was continuous and consistent, then the number of deaths and injuries will be even higher than if there was an even playing field.

Even playing field = even playing field. It doesn't matter whether two boxers are allowed to consume as much performance enhancing drugs they wanted or the same two boxers are disallowed from using any performance enhancing drugs. It's the same! My point is, just ensure there exists an even playing field for both boxers.

And in the 21st century, technology has advanced so much that to even expect 100% clean and natural athletes today is utterly oxymoron. What if in half a century, average everyday human beings become half cybernetic or become trans-humans from consuming artificial chemicals, to the point where they exceed all natural human capabilities. Are we still going to expect and demand 100% clean and natural athletes DOE in such a futuristic era? Do you realize the irrationality in such a concept / idea?

Let us remain consistent with the era that we're living in. There was a time when 100% clean and natural athletes was possible because during those times, the world was more natural and clean. Today, that isn't the case considering how artificial and unnatural planet Earth currently is.

In other words, don't expect 100% clean and natural athletes during an era when the world is MOSTLY unnatural, artificial and unclean.

And expect 100% clean and natural athletes during an era when planet Earth is 100% natural and clean.

[sweeterscience]

The truth and reality is, amount off deaths and injuries occurring would remain the same, either way. If everyone is allowed to consume whatever performance enhancing drugs they wanted to, then the number of deaths and injuries that would occur would remain the same as if everyone were not consuming any performance enhancing drugs.

The only deviation that would occur is if there is an uneven playing field. That is, if one boxer was allowed to consume performance enhancing drugs whilst his opponent wasn't. And if that trend was continuous and consistent, then the number of deaths and injuries will be even higher than if there was an even playing field.

Even playing field = even playing field. It doesn't matter whether two boxers are allowed to consume as much performance enhancing drugs they wanted or the same two boxers are disallowed from using any performance enhancing drugs. It's the same! My point is, just ensure there exists an even playing field for both boxers.

And in the 21st century, technology has advanced so much that to even expect 100% clean and natural athletes today is utterly oxymoron. What if in half a century, average everyday human beings become half cybernetic or become trans-humans from consuming artificial chemicals, to the point where they exceed all natural human capabilities. Are we still going to expect and demand 100% clean and natural athletes DOE in such a futuristic era? Do you realize the irrationality in such a concept / idea?

Let us remain consistent with the era that we're living in. There was a time when 100% clean and natural athletes was possible because during those times, the world was more natural and clean. Today, that isn't the case considering how artificial and unnatural planet Earth currently is.

In other words, don't expect 100% clean and natural athletes during an era when the world is MOSTLY unnatural, artificial and unclean.

And expect 100% clean and natural athletes during an era when planet Earth is 100% natural and clean.

Good stuff. I appreciate that you took the time to respond at length. And to think, this conversation took place without a single slur, left-field personal attack or evisceration-by-text? I hope it's the beginning of a trend.