Comments Thread For: Andre Ward Hints at Comeback? At Higher Weight?

[Mr Objecitivity]

Andre Ward hit Sergey Kovalev dead on the jaw and folded him up; Ward's not Adonis Stevenson or anything, but no one simply walks through Ward's punches.

Usyk's fight night weight, according to your own words may top out at 220lbs, fit and ready to go (may rule of thumb is that 15lbs is about as big a weight cut as you can do above middleweight without the cut affecting the skills; 10lbs for fighters at 147lbs or below, with that margin narrowing for featherweight on down), so it's not like Ward would be dwarfed in such a fight (and it's not like Usyk is all that big a puncher either, tbh).

With size being similar, the hypothetical fight comes down to straight-up boxing skills, and I don't think that Usyk is anywhere near as skilled as Ward is.

Andre Ward's frame was basically set by the time he hit his mid to late 20s; any extra weight that he's put on since he was 180lbs, ready to fight Golovkin at 168, has likely come in the weight room and with S&C; trained properly, athletes have shown it to be more than possible to add a certain amount of bulk before impacts to speed/athleticism occurs.

Anthony Joshua is a different situation (Virgil can trust his eyes all he wants, and I respect his insights, but Anthony Joshua is a primed and fit 240lb heavyweight fighter), but counting out a 200-205lb Andre Ward, against a 215-220lb Oleksander Usyk is a mistake.

Andre Ward landed his best and most powerful punch on Sergey Kovalev's face and he still couldn't drop, never mind KO or legitimately stop Kovalev. If anything, that's a testament to how weak and feather fisted Andre Ward is and not any evidence of him qualifying as someone who can be very effective with his punches if he lands them on big cruiser weights or heavyweights. If Kovalev didn't even get dropped by the most powerful punch Ward landed, then Usyk who has taken punches from powerful super heavyweights and cruiser weights is only going to be annoyed at those punches from Ward.

And yes, I give Adonis Stevenson slightly greater chances of beating Usyk due to his greater power than Ward. Even though it's only a slightly greater chance.

And Usyk has 80% + knockout record. Thus, he is a big puncher and big / powerful enough to destroy pretty much any light heavyweight, never minded a feather fisted one like Ward. The only guys that survived against Usyk are guys with solid chins like Glowacki. Usyk doesn't throw every punch with maximum power but his most powerful punches are significantly more powerful than Ward's and will be too much for Ward's chin or body to take effectively.

In terms of 'skills', Usyk is significantly more skilled than Ward. Which is why he is able to go to his opponent's backyard and defeat multiple top opponents in their backyard without having to foul or cheat or break the rules like Andre Ward usually does. Whilst to this day, Andre Ward has never beaten a single top level opponent outside of his home country without having to cheat and break the rules someway or another. So there is no way one can justify Ward supposedly being more skilled than Usyk. Usyk is most likely going to do to Ward what Lomachenko did to Rigondeaux. Usyk's reach, foot movement and angles would prevent Ward from landing anything meaningful whilst just outworking and eventually stopping Ward. Ward lacks power, size, reach among many other attributes to be effective against Usyk.

So Ward is smaller in size, has a shorter reach, is shorter in height, is a feather fisted puncher below cruiser weight, shown to have a suspect enough chin / punch resistance that he can be dropped by a light heavyweight and simply slower in overall movement. Thus, this is a near mismatch. Ward might be able to beat Bellew for the reasons you stated but not Usyk. Usyk isn't John Ruiz that Roy Jones Jr defeated and Roy Jones Jr is naturally even bigger and more powerful than Ward and still was forced to pick the weakest heavyweight champion at the time. Someone like Usyk who is significantly better than Ruiz is a different story altogether.

I mean, Ward doesn't have Roy Jones's power, athleticism, speed and overall explosiveness. How is Ward without those attributes going to defeat someone who is even better than Ruiz in Usyk?

And if Ward adds weight to his body artificially and legally beyond what he is naturally, then it's going to have a negative effect on his performance by making him slower, less coordinated, less energetic and etc.

[BattlingNelson]

I still believe he is more likely to take bouts against Anthony Joshua or Tony Bellew , over Andre Ward. Usyk can make just as much, if not more money competing against Bellew, Joshua or even Haye, compared to the money he would make boxing against Andre Ward.

Well if it takes him 3 tune-ups to move up one division, how many tune-ups would he need to go to HW?

BTW how fat is Joe Smith these days?

[DreamFighter]

tko8 meathed

Andre Ward landed his best and most powerful punch on Sergey Kovalev's face and he still couldn't drop, never mind KO or legitimately stop Kovalev. If anything, that's a testament to how weak and feather fisted Andre Ward is and not any evidence of him qualifying as someone who can be very effective with his punches if he lands them on big cruiser weights or heavyweights. If Kovalev didn't even get dropped by the most powerful punch Ward landed, then Usyk who has taken punches from powerful super heavyweights and cruiser weights is only going to be annoyed at those punches from Ward.

And yes, I give Adonis Stevenson slightly greater chances of beating Usyk due to his greater power than Ward. Even though it's only a slightly greater chance.

And Usyk has 80% + knockout record. Thus, he is a big puncher and big / powerful enough to destroy pretty much any light heavyweight, never minded a feather fisted one like Ward. The only guys that survived against Usyk are guys with solid chins like Glowacki. Usyk doesn't throw every punch with maximum power but his most powerful punches are significantly more powerful than Ward's and will be too much for Ward's chin or body to take effectively.

In terms of 'skills', Usyk is significantly more skilled than Ward. Which is why he is able to go to his opponent's backyard and defeat multiple top opponents in their backyard without having to foul or cheat or break the rules like Andre Ward usually does. Whilst to this day, Andre Ward has never beaten a single top level opponent outside of his home country without having to cheat and break the rules someway or another. So there is no way one can justify Ward supposedly being more skilled than Usyk. Usyk is most likely going to do to Ward what Lomachenko did to Rigondeaux. Usyk's reach, foot movement and angles would prevent Ward from landing anything meaningful whilst just outworking and eventually stopping Ward. Ward lacks power, size, reach among many other attributes to be effective against Usyk.

So Ward is smaller in size, has a shorter reach, is shorter in height, is a feather fisted puncher below cruiser weight, shown to have a suspect enough chin / punch resistance that he can be dropped by a light heavyweight and simply slower in overall movement. Thus, this is a near mismatch. Ward might be able to beat Bellew for the reasons you stated but not Usyk. Usyk isn't John Ruiz that Roy Jones Jr defeated and Roy Jones Jr is naturally even bigger and more powerful than Ward and still was forced to pick the weakest heavyweight champion at the time. Someone like Usyk who is significantly better than Ruiz is a different story altogether.

I mean, Ward doesn't have Roy Jones's power, athleticism, speed and overall explosiveness. How is Ward without those attributes going to defeat someone who is even better than Ruiz in Usyk?

And if Ward adds weight to his body artificially and legally beyond what he is naturally, then it's going to have a negative effect on his performance by making him slower, less coordinated, less energetic and etc.

[DreamFighter]

As usual, you're speculating over events that haven't

Roy Jones Jr beating John Ruiz is analogous to Andre Ward beating Manuel Charr. John Ruiz is one of the worst heavyweight champions of all time

charr was was of the worst contenders of all time.

[Scipio2009]

Andre Ward landed his best and most powerful punch on Sergey Kovalev's face and he still couldn't drop, never mind KO or legitimately stop Kovalev. If anything, that's a testament to how weak and feather fisted Andre Ward is and not any evidence of him qualifying as someone who can be very effective with his punches if he lands them on big cruiser weights or heavyweights. If Kovalev didn't even get dropped by the most powerful punch Ward landed, then Usyk who has taken punches from powerful super heavyweights and cruiser weights is only going to be annoyed at those punches from Ward.

And yes, I give Adonis Stevenson slightly greater chances of beating Usyk due to his greater power than Ward. Even though it's only a slightly greater chance.

And Usyk has 80% + knockout record. Thus, he is a big puncher and big / powerful enough to destroy pretty much any light heavyweight, never minded a feather fisted one like Ward. The only guys that survived against Usyk are guys with solid chins like Glowacki. Usyk doesn't throw every punch with maximum power but his most powerful punches are significantly more powerful than Ward's and will be too much for Ward's chin or body to take effectively.

In terms of 'skills', Usyk is significantly more skilled than Ward. Which is why he is able to go to his opponent's backyard and defeat multiple top opponents in their backyard without having to foul or cheat or break the rules like Andre Ward usually does. Whilst to this day, Andre Ward has never beaten a single top level opponent outside of his home country without having to cheat and break the rules someway or another. So there is no way one can justify Ward supposedly being more skilled than Usyk. Usyk is most likely going to do to Ward what Lomachenko did to Rigondeaux. Usyk's reach, foot movement and angles would prevent Ward from landing anything meaningful whilst just outworking and eventually stopping Ward. Ward lacks power, size, reach among many other attributes to be effective against Usyk.

So Ward is smaller in size, has a shorter reach, is shorter in height, is a feather fisted puncher below cruiser weight, shown to have a suspect enough chin / punch resistance that he can be dropped by a light heavyweight and simply slower in overall movement. Thus, this is a near mismatch. Ward might be able to beat Bellew for the reasons you stated but not Usyk. Usyk isn't John Ruiz that Roy Jones Jr defeated and Roy Jones Jr is naturally even bigger and more powerful than Ward and still was forced to pick the weakest heavyweight champion at the time. Someone like Usyk who is significantly better than Ruiz is a different story altogether.

I mean, Ward doesn't have Roy Jones's power, athleticism, speed and overall explosiveness. How is Ward without those attributes going to defeat someone who is even better than Ruiz in Usyk?

And if Ward adds weight to his body artificially and legally beyond what he is naturally, then it's going to have a negative effect on his performance by making him slower, less coordinated, less energetic and etc.

Believe whatever you want, it's been a long time since Usyk has even actually flattened anyone (ref stoppages are an interesting thing when you can actually go back and see the fights, lol), and crying about Ward's "cheating" (when he's never been deducted a point) isn't going to help things either.

To earnestly believe that Andre Ward is basically Paulie Malignaggi at 200lbs is a mistake

[aboutfkntime]

As usual, you're speculating over events that haven't even occurred yet, based on very little to no evidence.

As it stands, Andre Ward has 0 bouts at cruiser weight, 0 wins at cruiser weight, 0 feats at cruiser weight, 0 accomplishments at cruiser weight and is therefore totally unproven at cruiser weight. As such, there isn't any evidence he can even compete at cruiser weight, never mind be very successful

If Ward could compete at cruiser weight, he would've done so already. Either that, or he is artificially growing his body after he has already reached his natural biological physical size limit (people don't usually grow naturally in size after their 30's). In other words, using performance enhancing drugs (PED). Or he has always been big enough in size to make cruiser weight but has been competing at smaller weight divisions as a weight bully by dehydrating himself. One way or the other.

When one retires, they don't get tested for performance enhancing drugs when they're training and developing their body and that's the most likely time one can consume performance enhancing drugs (PED) and not get caught and penalized for it. So if Ward is able to grow bigger than his natural size artificially and still perform at a high level, then chances are, he is an unclean and an unnatural athlete. Thus, if you discriminate against PED users, then Ward's accomplishments will have less value and have asterisks surrounding it.

Roy Jones Jr beating John Ruiz is analogous to Andre Ward beating Manuel Charr. John Ruiz is one of the worst heavyweight champions of all time. It's not analogous to Ward beating Anthony Joshua or even Oleksandr Usyk. It's one thing to beat a heavier + unskilled opponent like Roy Jones Jr beating John Ruiz and it's another thing to defeat a heavier + skilled opponent like a Lennox Lewis, Klitschkos, Anthony Joshua or even Oleksandr Usyk. And even Holyfield lost against pretty much every significantly heavier + skilled opponent.

Considering Ward is a feather fist, even in weight divisions below heavyweight. Then it does matter if Ward makes 205 - 215 pounds (assuming he is able to in the first place). 'One punch can change a fight' applies to knockout artists and strong and big heavyweights that weigh over 220 pounds like Alexander Povetkin. Not to sub-heavyweight feather fists like Andre Ward.

Olekandr Usyk looks bigger in size than David Haye used to look at cruiser weight. He appears to be around 220 - 230 pounds in terms of walk around weight. And his fight night weight is most likely between 215 - 220 pounds. So he doesn't drain 30 pounds but close to 20 pounds (which is something a lot of other boxers also do). And if he moved up to heavyweight, he wouldn't be draining himself at all to make weight and would probably weigh over 230 pounds with a little more fat than he currently has.

the bold, is fake..... so I did not bother reading anything else

1) there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Ward could compete anywhere he chose to fight

2) it is completely incorrect to suggest that Ward cannot compete at cruiser because "he would've done so already".....

who's timetable were you using for that speculation, yours?

in saying that, I think this is nonsense, and Ward will not return to boxing..... mainly because of the link supplied by SonnyBoyReturns

that Joshua talk was absurd

3.42

[Mr Objecitivity]

the bold, is fake..... so I did not bother reading anything else

1) there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Ward could compete anywhere he chose to fight

2) it is completely incorrect to suggest that Ward cannot compete at cruiser because "he would've done so already".....

who's timetable were you using for that speculation, yours?

in saying that, I think this is nonsense, and Ward will not return to boxing..... mainly because of the link supplied by SonnyBoyReturns

that Joshua talk was absurd

3.42

How can it be 'fake' when Ward has never fought at cruiser weight against another cruiser weight?

there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Ward could compete anywhere he chose to fight

Do you mean "any" location / place or weight division? What evidence is there that he can defeat a top level opponent in a foreign territory outside of USA?

What evidence is there that he can defeat a big skillful cruiser weight in the cruiser weight division or a big powerful heavyweight in the heavyweight division?

[Mr Objecitivity]

Believe whatever you want, it's been a long time since Usyk has even actually flattened anyone (ref stoppages are an interesting thing when you can actually go back and see the fights, lol), and crying about Ward's "cheating" (when he's never been deducted a point) isn't going to help things either.

To earnestly believe that Andre Ward is basically Paulie Malignaggi at 200lbs is a mistake

As I already stated, Usyk doesn't throw every punch with maximum power. He varies the speed and power of his punches and only unloads with his most powerful punches after he has figured out his opponent's timing and rhythm. Similar to Vasyl Lomachenko. And when he does throw his most powerful punches, they're powerful enough to KO most cruiser weights. Only the toughest opponents like Glowacki can survive.

As for for Usyk 'flattening' anyone. He doesn't need to. And if anything, you're actually further reinforcing my point about Oleksandr Usyk being a more 'skilled' boxer than Andre Ward (especially in terms of offensive skills) if you are claiming that he lacks 'flattening' punching power but he is still able to have 80%+ KO record. If someone lacks KO power but is still able to stop their opponents consistently and have 80%+ KO record, then it just proves their offensive skills have to be so HIGH that they are able to make up for their lack of KO power by employing such high offensive skills. Thus, the fact that Usyk with not much power has a significantly higher KO% than Andre Ward who also doesn't possess much KO power must only prove that Usyk is more skilled (offensively) than Andre Ward. Contrary to what you claimed earlier. Usyk's constant ability to land punches on his opponents and damage them is superior to Ward's. Even if Usyk isn't as powerful as you're claiming.

As for Ward 'cheating'. I don't need to 'cry' about anything. There exists video evidence out there that proves Ward is a cheater and that's just a fact. And I am merely stating a fact by calling a spade a spade.

Andre Ward does:

1) Headbutt

2) Bend below the waist

3) Throw consistent low blows

Against every top level opponent he has faced so far.

The referee doesn't invent or create the rules. That's not the ref's job. The ref's job is to enforce the rules which were already established by rule makers in a higher position. And if a referee doesn't penalize a boxer even after the boxer deliberately fouls, then the referee is doing a faulty job. The referee not penalizing a boxer isn't evidence of a boxer not fouling.

Otherwise, Andre Ward would've already boxed in a foreign territory by now as Usyk is already doing in just 13 bouts. Or maybe he isn't too confident in doing so because he knows the referees are going to enforce the rules properly in a foreign country and penalize him accordingly. Thus, he wouldn't be able to win using his usual 'fouling' tactics because he wouldn't be allowed to use them as he is in his backyard.

Andre Ward at heavyweight will pose a lesser threat to heavyweights and big cruiser weights like Usyk than Chris Byrd or Eddie Chambers did. You know, the two boxers who are commonly considered to be 'feather fists', right? At least they are actually proven at heavyweight whilst Ward is 100% unproven at cruiser weight or heavyweight and is already 33 years of age.

[aboutfkntime]

How can it be 'fake' when Ward has never fought at cruiser weight against another cruiser weight?



Do you mean "any" location / place or weight division? What evidence is there that he can defeat a top level opponent in a foreign territory outside of USA?

What evidence is there that he can defeat a big skillful cruiser weight in the cruiser weight division or a big powerful heavyweight in the heavyweight division?

DUDE, you had better not be one of those "155lb Canelo was a middleweight" people

serious question (due to a current long-running thread).....

do you think that 155lb Canelo was a genuine middleweight?

I actually want that question answered before I go any further regarding your other questions

but yea, completely forgetting Ward's style/pedigree, is fkn bizarre

I have another relevant question.....

did you believe all that "anyone from 154-168" bullshht from Golovkin?

[Mr Objecitivity]

DUDE, you had better not be one of those "155lb Canelo was a middleweight" people

serious question (due to a current long-running thread).....

do you think that 155lb Canelo was a genuine middleweight?

I actually want that question answered before I go any further regarding your other questions

but yea, completely forgetting Ward's style/pedigree, is fkn bizarre

I have another relevant question.....

did you believe all that "anyone from 154-168" bullshht from Golovkin?

What relevance does that question of yours have with the initial question I asked you?