The myth of Canelo and GGG, are they really that good?

[mvooom]

First off, we need to the take the apples off our eyes and call it what it really is. Are Canelo and GGG really great fighters? These 2 fighters are ranked high on some p4p list even up to 1 and 2 which is ridiculous to me.

Before I go further let me say this, I am not a fan of first round KOs, not a fan of 1 punch KOs. I prefer to see a fighter show his stuff rather than just win. I also always felt Kovalev was a better fighter than GGG, hence I never argued when I saw Ward vs Kovalev as 1 and 2 in some p4p list.

Starting with GGG, the first time I saw GGG for what he really was is against Rosado who landed about 6 straight punches flush on the head of GGG at the center of the ring while GGG barely ducked, dodged or even covered up. He simply leaned back and received it all.

GGG's master defense backed by compubox numbers showing he rarely gets hit is mainly by opponents throwing "stay away" punches. His offense is all about raw power, he lands flush on his opponent and fear kicks in. His incredible ability to cut off the ring can be credited to an injured, sub par opponent who has received those powerful punches and barely steps away. All GGG has to do is step as well thereby cornering the opponent easily.

Against opponents with alil bit of upper body movement, footwork and head movement, you can see GGG sliding left and right the ring especially when said oppoenents are on the ropes when he throws punches and misses clean so I'm wondering where this footwork is. Examples will be the Kell Brook, Jacobs and Canelo fight, he went off balance so many times simply by missing punches. Reduce that power and he will be another tough face-first fighter, on the level of Provodnikov.

Then when you look at Canelo with 52 fights already, what has he really done? Of course he has improved since the Floyd fights but then what? Barely scraped a win by Lara, didn't look impressive against Cotto...the only worthwhile fight he looked good would be Angulo fight but there are those who say Angulo was done after the Lara beatdown, I think Canelo had a hand in making Angulo look that way with the way their fight started - that huge right hand Canelo started with would give any fighter nightmerish flashbacks.

This current great Canelo people are getting pumped over, did a good job against GGG which greatly impressed me but then again, GGG is a fighter who looks good when he can land flush on his opponent. If Canelo does a good job against Saunders, Charlo, Andrade or Jacobs then I can say maybe, if he cleans them all, then yes he is truely an amazing fighter.

I feel the love for Canelo and GGG is what is getting them this mythical skills and ability that some of us just don't see. Winning a fight is good but when we are looking at greats or P4P list, it's goes beyond just winning.

The P4P list, I don't see how Canelo or GGG ranks higher than Spence, Crawford or Loma even Rigo can be argued. The eye test says Canelo and GGG can't beat those guys, can't even look good against them, maybe Spence but thats it. And those guys can't be considered great yet.

What about recent greats, P4P and prime for prime? Pacquiao, Floyd, Ward... Can GGG or Canelo beat those guys? A big No. So what are we so crazy about? Someone kindly explain.

I am very open minded to this topic so feel free to convince me.

[german12johnson]

Canelo has the large Mexican fanbase ggg is good in my opinion don't like his mostly race hate fanbase but he is good in my opinion canelo is way overrated take away his huge Mexican fanbase and money he brings in every one would hav been quit caring

[Lester Tutor]

First off, we need to the take the apples off our eyes and call it what it really is. Are Canelo and GGG really great fighters? These 2 fighters are ranked high on some p4p list even up to 1 and 2 which is ridiculous to me.

Before I go further let me say this, I am not a fan of first round KOs, not a fan of 1 punch KOs. I prefer to see a fighter show his stuff rather than just win. I also always felt Kovalev was a better fighter than GGG, hence I never argued when I saw Ward vs Kovalev as 1 and 2 in some p4p list.

Starting with GGG, the first time I saw GGG for what he really was is against Rosado who landed about 6 straight punches flush on the head of GGG at the center of the ring while GGG barely ducked, dodged or even covered up. He simply leaned back and received it all.

GGG's master defense backed by compubox numbers showing he rarely gets hit is mainly by opponents throwing "stay away" punches. His offense is all about raw power, he lands flush on his opponent and fear kicks in. His incredible ability to cut off the ring can be credited to an injured, sub par opponent who has received those powerful punches and barely steps away. All GGG has to do is step as well thereby cornering the opponent easily.

Against opponents with alil bit of upper body movement, footwork and head movement, you can see GGG sliding left and right the ring especially when said oppoenents are on the ropes when he throws punches and misses clean so I'm wondering where this footwork is. Examples will be the Kell Brook, Jacobs and Canelo fight, he went off balance so many times simply by missing punches. Reduce that power and he will be another tough face-first fighter, on the level of Provodnikov.

Then when you look at Canelo with 52 fights already, what has he really done? Of course he has improved since the Floyd fights but then what? Barely scraped a win by Lara, didn't look impressive against Cotto...the only worthwhile fight he looked good would be Angulo fight but there are those who say Angulo was done after the Lara beatdown, I think Canelo had a hand in making Angulo look that way with the way their fight started - that huge right hand Canelo started with would give any fighter nightmerish flashbacks.

This current great Canelo people are getting pumped over, did a good job against GGG which greatly impressed me but then again, GGG is a fighter who looks good when he can land flush on his opponent. If Canelo does a good job against Saunders, Charlo, Andrade or Jacobs then I can say maybe, if he cleans them all, then yes he is truely an amazing fighter.

I feel the love for Canelo and GGG is what is getting them this mythical skills and ability that some of us just don't see. Winning a fight is good but when we are looking at greats or P4P list, it's goes beyond just winning.

The P4P list, I don't see how Canelo or GGG ranks higher than Spence, Crawford or Loma even Rigo can be argued. The eye test says Canelo and GGG can't beat those guys, can't even look good against them, maybe Spence but thats it. And those guys can't be considered great yet.

What about recent greats, P4P and prime for prime? Pacquiao, Floyd, Ward... Can GGG or Canelo beat those guys? A big No. So what are we so crazy about? Someone kindly explain.

I am very open minded to this topic so feel free to convince me.

How long has Golovkin been a pro and claiming certain weights as easy? The irony is that synonymously, Golovkin requires Alvarez? Alvarez has fought outside his comfort zones and the HOFs on his resume compared to Golovkin who never fought at 168 and said he needed time for Ward but never chased the fight?

Black-Nelo 2.0 is the Big Lewbowski, the Dude

[Redd Foxx]

Canelo clearly has a lot of talent and deserves some hype. He doesn't have that air of limitlessness that a Floyd, Ward, or current Loma seem to have. But, I think people generally know what's up with him and what to expect.

Golovkin was given a bit too much hype until the Jacobs fight. Now, people see him pretty much as they should; a very good all-around fighter with strengths in cutting off the ring and applying power. He's clearly not a bum. He's also not an ATG. For some reason, he's always being treated like one or the other though, instead of just being called a really good fighter like Canelo is.

[TonyGe]

First off, we need to the take the apples off our eyes and call it what it really is. Are Canelo and GGG really great fighters? These 2 fighters are ranked high on some p4p list even up to 1 and 2 which is ridiculous to me.

Before I go further let me say this, I am not a fan of first round KOs, not a fan of 1 punch KOs. I prefer to see a fighter show his stuff rather than just win. I also always felt Kovalev was a better fighter than GGG, hence I never argued when I saw Ward vs Kovalev as 1 and 2 in some p4p list.

Starting with GGG, the first time I saw GGG for what he really was is against Rosado who landed about 6 straight punches flush on the head of GGG at the center of the ring while GGG barely ducked, dodged or even covered up. He simply leaned back and received it all.

GGG's master defense backed by compubox numbers showing he rarely gets hit is mainly by opponents throwing "stay away" punches. His offense is all about raw power, he lands flush on his opponent and fear kicks in. His incredible ability to cut off the ring can be credited to an injured, sub par opponent who has received those powerful punches and barely steps away. All GGG has to do is step as well thereby cornering the opponent easily.

Against opponents with alil bit of upper body movement, footwork and head movement, you can see GGG sliding left and right the ring especially when said oppoenents are on the ropes when he throws punches and misses clean so I'm wondering where this footwork is. Examples will be the Kell Brook, Jacobs and Canelo fight, he went off balance so many times simply by missing punches. Reduce that power and he will be another tough face-first fighter, on the level of Provodnikov.

Then when you look at Canelo with 52 fights already, what has he really done? Of course he has improved since the Floyd fights but then what? Barely scraped a win by Lara, didn't look impressive against Cotto...the only worthwhile fight he looked good would be Angulo fight but there are those who say Angulo was done after the Lara beatdown, I think Canelo had a hand in making Angulo look that way with the way their fight started - that huge right hand Canelo started with would give any fighter nightmerish flashbacks.

This current great Canelo people are getting pumped over, did a good job against GGG which greatly impressed me but then again, GGG is a fighter who looks good when he can land flush on his opponent. If Canelo does a good job against Saunders, Charlo, Andrade or Jacobs then I can say maybe, if he cleans them all, then yes he is truely an amazing fighter.

I feel the love for Canelo and GGG is what is getting them this mythical skills and ability that some of us just don't see. Winning a fight is good but when we are looking at greats or P4P list, it's goes beyond just winning.

The P4P list, I don't see how Canelo or GGG ranks higher than Spence, Crawford or Loma even Rigo can be argued. The eye test says Canelo and GGG can't beat those guys, can't even look good against them, maybe Spence but thats it. And those guys can't be considered great yet.

What about recent greats, P4P and prime for prime? Pacquiao, Floyd, Ward... Can GGG or Canelo beat those guys? A big No. So what are we so crazy about? Someone kindly explain.

I am very open minded to this topic so feel free to convince me.

Well it depends on how you look at it. Golovkin beat Jacobs who has a style that's in your opinion tough for him to deal with. He outboxed Canelo another fighter that was supposed to outbox Golovkin. He didn't knock them out, true but he got the job done. I guess it begs the question, does a fighter have to knock out everyone he faces in order to be considered elite?
I'm not a big fan of Canelo but he is a good fighter. He beat Lara who was winning all the early rounds. He stuck to going to the body and that paid dividends for him later. Ward? Well Ward cheats so using him as a measuring stick is misleading. Canelo and Golovkin are both clean fighters.

[soul_survivor]

You're basic assumption is flawed, i.e. if they are ranked highly today, that automatically means they are one of the greats. That just isn't true. There may be some fans who think these two are ATGs but most within the sport don't. However, as of now, they are certainly two of the best fighters around.

It's simple. You couldn't rank 10 better boxers on the planet.

[ThomasJK]

GGG beat DJ without question. I think Canelo would pretty much do the same. If you want to say GGG has lost the luster and hype because he didn’t beat a man (DJ) who clearly came into the fight with a big hydration weight increase and forsakes a belt he signed to fight for by skipping the same day weigh in requirement, then ok I guess NOT ko’ing a smw/cruiser weight would make GGG look like an average good non elite MW fighter. Canelo having the same elite talents to beat DJ just shows how much difference in levels of boxing there are between GGG and Canelo over the rest of the MW Division. Jacobs had no answer to GGG offense but Canelo did. That tells me if Canelo countered DJ with anything he landed on GGG, it would be a long night for Jacobs as well. GGg might not have been phased too awful much by Canelos power, speed, and accuracy, but I doubt DJ would fare so well. In the end, Like it or not, Ggg and Canelo came to a draw. So to answer the OP, yes both of these two gentlemen are that good and yes they are both deserving of the hype and accolades that have been bestowed open them at their current weight class.
Just for the record, should there be a rematch with GGG and DJ, I have the feeling Jacobs will suffer a beat down the likes he has never seen before. I doubt DJ would get the luxury of missing the same day weigh in either.

[mcdonalds]

We at least know canelo is better than GGG that's for sure

[jmrf4435]

First off, we need to the take the apples off our eyes and call it what it really is. Are Canelo and GGG really great fighters? These 2 fighters are ranked high on some p4p list even up to 1 and 2 which is ridiculous to me.

Before I go further let me say this, I am not a fan of first round KOs, not a fan of 1 punch KOs. I prefer to see a fighter show his stuff rather than just win. I also always felt Kovalev was a better fighter than GGG, hence I never argued when I saw Ward vs Kovalev as 1 and 2 in some p4p list.

Starting with GGG, the first time I saw GGG for what he really was is against Rosado who landed about 6 straight punches flush on the head of GGG at the center of the ring while GGG barely ducked, dodged or even covered up. He simply leaned back and received it all.

GGG's master defense backed by compubox numbers showing he rarely gets hit is mainly by opponents throwing "stay away" punches. His offense is all about raw power, he lands flush on his opponent and fear kicks in. His incredible ability to cut off the ring can be credited to an injured, sub par opponent who has received those powerful punches and barely steps away. All GGG has to do is step as well thereby cornering the opponent easily.

Against opponents with alil bit of upper body movement, footwork and head movement, you can see GGG sliding left and right the ring especially when said oppoenents are on the ropes when he throws punches and misses clean so I'm wondering where this footwork is. Examples will be the Kell Brook, Jacobs and Canelo fight, he went off balance so many times simply by missing punches. Reduce that power and he will be another tough face-first fighter, on the level of Provodnikov.

Then when you look at Canelo with 52 fights already, what has he really done? Of course he has improved since the Floyd fights but then what? Barely scraped a win by Lara, didn't look impressive against Cotto...the only worthwhile fight he looked good would be Angulo fight but there are those who say Angulo was done after the Lara beatdown, I think Canelo had a hand in making Angulo look that way with the way their fight started - that huge right hand Canelo started with would give any fighter nightmerish flashbacks.

This current great Canelo people are getting pumped over, did a good job against GGG which greatly impressed me but then again, GGG is a fighter who looks good when he can land flush on his opponent. If Canelo does a good job against Saunders, Charlo, Andrade or Jacobs then I can say maybe, if he cleans them all, then yes he is truely an amazing fighter.

I feel the love for Canelo and GGG is what is getting them this mythical skills and ability that some of us just don't see. Winning a fight is good but when we are looking at greats or P4P list, it's goes beyond just winning.

The P4P list, I don't see how Canelo or GGG ranks higher than Spence, Crawford or Loma even Rigo can be argued. The eye test says Canelo and GGG can't beat those guys, can't even look good against them, maybe Spence but thats it. And those guys can't be considered great yet.

What about recent greats, P4P and prime for prime? Pacquiao, Floyd, Ward... Can GGG or Canelo beat those guys? A big No. So what are we so crazy about? Someone kindly explain.

I am very open minded to this topic so feel free to convince me.

It's a bit ironic because we could make the same argument about Spence and Crawford.

[richardt]

It's a bit ironic because we could make the same argument about Spence and Crawford.

True. I've learned that anyone who can play the devil's advocate can tear into every fighter's weakness and their resumes. Even with the top 100 fighters of all time. It happens around here quite a bit.