Why do some boxers get praised for winning by decision whilst others get discredited?

[P.K Dionysus]

Lmfao, this back and forth 'debate' is turning into mud slinging because neither dude's points are being accepted.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Lmfao, this back and forth 'debate' is turning into mud slinging because neither dude's points are being accepted.

It's not much of a matter of points being accepted. I'm merely holding others to their own standard to see how they respond. So far in doing so, I've forced some to have exposed their own double or more standards when forming conclusions on things related to boxing.

For such individuals, it follows this reasoning:

1) When a boxer I don't like does a specific thing, then it warrants criticism

2) When a boxer that I like does the same thing, it doesn't warrant the same criticism and at times, it may even deserve praise.


You can read the posts of the last poster I responded to. That poster blames Povetkin for being a drug cheat, but not Andre Ward for being a cheater in the ring who uses incessant fouls. Likewise, that poster also blames Beterbiev for his 'lacking' performance against Koelling but doesn't give the same blame to Ward for his even worse performance against Brand.

[soul_survivor]

It's not much of a matter of points being accepted. I'm merely holding others to their own standard to see how they respond. So far in doing so, I've forced some to have exposed their own double or more standards when forming conclusions on things related to boxing.

For such individuals, it follows this reasoning:

1) When a boxer I don't like does a specific thing, then it warrants criticism

2) When a boxer that I like does the same thing, it doesn't warrant the same criticism and at times, it may even deserve praise.


You can read the posts of the last poster I responded to. That poster blames Povetkin for being a drug cheat, but not Andre Ward for being a cheater in the ring who uses incessant fouls. Likewise, that poster also blames Beterbiev for his 'lacking' performance against Koelling but doesn't give the same blame to Ward for his even worse performance against Brand.

Let's not forget Ward went 9 ugly rounds with Paul Smith, a career domestic middleweight who he dragged up to light heavy lol

[HarvardBlue]

Well then in this case, my criticism of Andre Ward's performance against Alexander Brand is equally legit and Ward deserves the exact same criticism for his performance against Alexander Brand as Beterbiev received for his performance against Koelling.

In fact, Ward probably deserves greater criticism because Ward failed to drop or stop Alexander Brand, despite winning every round and despite not getting hit much. On the other hand, Beterbiev likewise won every round and didn't get hit much, but at least managed to drop Koelling multiple times and managed to stop him, something Ward failed to do to Brand.



Likewise, Ward's performance against Brand didn't make him seem like a legit candidate to topple Beterbiev because he is light years better than Brand.



Likewise, if Andre Ward scored a spectacular early KO over Alexander Brand, he would've received all the credit.



Fair enough. If Beterbiev should receive blame for his 'lacking' performance against Koelling, then Ward should receive greater criticism for his performance against Brand that was even more 'lacking'.



I'm not blaming anybody. I'm questioning why someone (who is actually complaining that happens to not be me) should blame a bout to be boring on the offensive boxer who threw over 1000 punches throughout 12 rounds and not the ultra-defensive boxer who isn't even attempting to win, but only looking to survive.

One must ask the question: who is causing a boxing bout to be 'boring' if someone does find the bout to be 'boring'.



Maybe, maybe not.




This thread has nothing to do with who is criticized most between boxers. This thread is about why one boxer's performance be criticized more than another boxer's performance when both boxers perform equally well / bad as each other.

Also, Alexander Povetkin probably gets criticized just as much, if not more than Ward. Particulary by Americans. When the likes of Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield were blowing away the competition in the 80's and 90's, they were praised as ATG's. When Povetkin does the same to his opponents who aren't any worse than the competition in the 80's and 90's, most of those same Amero-fans aren't even going to consider rating Povetkin anywhere near as highly or equally.

The same with the Klitschko brothers. They have been the most dominant heavyweight champions in the history of boxing, compiling the best heavyweight records of all time. Yet, very few, if any of those same Amero - fans consider them anywhere near the top and would rather rank former cruiser weights like Muhammad Ali / Cassius Clay, Joe Frazier, Sonny Liston and the likes ahead of the Klitschko brothers. Those don't have anywhere near the record at actual heavyweight (when boxers weigh above 200 pounds) as good as the Klitschko brothers. In fact, none of the past heavyweights prior to Lennox Lewis do. Most of the so called 'heavyweights' prior to Mike Tyson were feasting on opponents who would be considered cruiser weights or light heavyweights today. Yet, they are somehow seen as greater than the Klitschko brothers.

The Klitschko brothers are 2 of the greatest ambassadors for the sport of boxing. They are the only 2 champions to possess PHD's. They remain professional and respectful, nearly all the time. They appear to be excellent role models for young kids all over the world.

Yet, all we hear is how they are boring. How they are robotic. How they are stiff. How they are mechanical. How they are lucky to be in a weak era (no proof provided for this in anyway). Never mind their actual results and record they have compiled. Which is the most relevant point anyway.

So please spare me your Andre Ward's victim position.



Likewise, there are slew of boxing fans who attribute Povetkin's entire success in boxing on drugs. Which is equal!



His resume below 175 pounds is totally irrelevant. At 175 pounds, his only feat that might be considered better than Beterbiev's is beating Sergey Kovalev. Who Artur Beterbiev also beat in the amateurs two times whilst boxing within the rules, without needing to foul. You might claim: Kovalev improved since then. Well, so has Beterbiev. Apart from Ward's win over Kovalev, he was one win over Sullivan Barrera that clearly avoided Artur Beterbiev. Other than that, Ward doesn't have much accomplishments at 175 pounds that is better than Beterbiev's.



Likewise, if Beterbiev had a bad night against Koelling, it was also still a dominant performance.



Likewise, Andre Ward is a prove headbutting cheat, low blow cheat, holding and hitting cheat and etc.

Oh, but somehow cheating with those fouls is acceptable but being a drug cheat isn't? Right, so you pick and choose who you criticize as a 'cheat'?



Yup, you've exposed your fanboyism for Andre Ward and your lack of objectivity. Multiple double or more standards you've displayed.

I'll ignore everything you said in the beginning because you added nothing new to to the conversation. If I'm being a fanboy for Ward, what do you call what you're doing? And of all the boxers in the world you're doing it for Beterbiev and Povetkin??? I could understand if this was Golovkin or Lomachenko but these fighters?

Beterbiev got criticized for ONE fight and you're spending weeks going back and forth with me. Povetkin was given a huge pass for being a drug cheat and some people blame his opponent. Yet you're all bent out of shape because he got criticized for ONE fight. You're probably the only the person that saw that fight. I'll keep entertaining you because I hope you become a better person/poster from now on... You picked the wrong horses to defend and the wrong topic to go all scorched earth on.

I'll reiterate that I actually like Beterbiev.

[HarvardBlue]

I'm trying to save his soul, he is obviously misguided.

[Tony2.0]

Because, sadly, *GUY GETS 20 KOS IN 20 FIGHTS AND WINS WORLD TITLE. NEXT FIGHT GUY STEPS UP IN COMPETITION AND INSTEAD OF A KO HE GOES 12 ROUNDS AND GETS A SUCESSFUL DEFENSE BY UD.

PPL WHO HATE THE CHAMP FOR ANY REASON: YOU GUYS SAID HE WAS A WORLD-BEATER, YOU GUYS SAID HE WAS A BEAST, YOU GUYS SAID THE GUY IS A TITANIUM CYBORG FROM THE FUTURE WHO BUILT THE HOSPITAL HE WAS BORN IN. (no proof anyone ever said that about the champ) EXPOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Can't make everyone an objective fan.

[Combat Talk Radio]

It's not much of a matter of points being accepted. I'm merely holding others to their own standard to see how they respond. So far in doing so, I've forced some to have exposed their own double or more standards when forming conclusions on things related to boxing.

For such individuals, it follows this reasoning:

1) When a boxer I don't like does a specific thing, then it warrants criticism

2) When a boxer that I like does the same thing, it doesn't warrant the same criticism and at times, it may even deserve praise.

Case-in-point:
Mayweather beats Manny with a jab: "The rat-a-tat jab, it's NOT ENOUGH!!!! It's NOT ENOUGH TO WIN THE FIGHT!!!! Round 4!!!! Round 6!!!!!"

Golovkin beats Jacobs with a jab: "His jab is like a power punch, that's why he won".


Case-in-point:
Salido bullies Loma to a win: "Salido is Loma's DADDY!!!"

Jeff Horn bullies Manny to a win: "F that ref, he let him go full MMA, Arum robbed Manny".


Case-in-point:
Saunders sticks and moves and makes Lemieux look like a C-level fighter: "Sweet Pea Saunders!!!"

Mayweather sticks and moves and makes Manny look like a B-level fighter: "what a punk, all he did was RUN!"


Case-in-point:
Mayweather comes in 2 POUNDS heavy over Marquez and schools him: "Mayweather is a weight bully, I don't count that win!"

Loma comes in 7.4 POUNDS heavy over Rigo and schools him: "Masterclass, this guy is the best, P4P #1, he beats Floyd @ 130"


Case-in-point:
Compubox says Floyd outworked Manny: "Compubox lies, you can't believe it, they don't know what they're seeing, let's make up our own scoring with slo-mo videos, it's not just about Compubox, there's other criteria, Manny was the aggressor."

Compubox says Manny outworked Jeff Horn: "See, Horn didn't win that, Compubox says so, his aggression was bullying and shouldn't count".


It's just how NSB works, man.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Case-in-point:
Mayweather beats Manny with a jab: "The rat-a-tat jab, it's NOT ENOUGH!!!! It's NOT ENOUGH TO WIN THE FIGHT!!!! Round 4!!!! Round 6!!!!!"

Golovkin beats Jacobs with a jab: "His jab is like a power punch, that's why he won".


Case-in-point:
Salido bullies Loma to a win: "Salido is Loma's DADDY!!!"

Jeff Horn bullies Manny to a win: "F that ref, he let him go full MMA, Arum robbed Manny".


Case-in-point:
Saunders sticks and moves and makes Lemieux look like a C-level fighter: "Sweet Pea Saunders!!!"

Mayweather sticks and moves and makes Manny look like a B-level fighter: "what a punk, all he did was RUN!"


Case-in-point:
Mayweather comes in 2 POUNDS heavy over Marquez and schools him: "Mayweather is a weight bully, I don't count that win!"

Loma comes in 7.4 POUNDS heavy over Rigo and schools him: "Masterclass, this guy is the best, P4P #1, he beats Floyd @ 130"


Case-in-point:
Compubox says Floyd outworked Manny: "Compubox lies, you can't believe it, they don't know what they're seeing, let's make up our own scoring with slo-mo videos, it's not just about Compubox, there's other criteria, Manny was the aggressor."

Compubox says Manny outworked Jeff Horn: "See, Horn didn't win that, Compubox says so, his aggression was bullying and shouldn't count".


It's just how NSB works, man.

Some very good examples and I agree for the most part. Although some of them were somewhat inaccurate.

In Vasyl Lomachenko's case against Rigondeaux and Floyd Mayweather Jr's case against Marquez. Lomachenko actually weighed within the correct, agreed contractual weight. Whilst Floyd Mayweather Jr weighed above the agreed contractual weight. So that's not the best example. Lomachenko also didn't weigh above what was accepted in the rehydration clause as the rehydration weight limit. That's why Lomachenko's victory against Rigondeaux is more impressive than Floyd Mayweather Jr's victory against Juan Manuel Marquez.

Also, Golovkin out-jabbed Daniel Jacobs whilst also forcing him to move backwards through their entire bout. Golovkin also inflicted much greater visible damage upon Jacob's face via the use of his jab. All while taking into consideration Jacobs was the heavier boxer compared to Golovkin. On the other hand, Mayweather was the naturally bigger sized boxer compared to Manny Pacquiao and didn't inflict anywhere near the damage on Pacquiao as Golovkin inflicted upon Jacobs. This is why Golovkin's performance against Jacobs is justifiably more impressive than Mayweather's performance against Pacquiao.

[Mr Objecitivity]

I'll ignore everything you said in the beginning because you added nothing new to to the conversation. If I'm being a fanboy for Ward, what do you call what you're doing? And of all the boxers in the world you're doing it for Beterbiev and Povetkin??? I could understand if this was Golovkin or Lomachenko but these fighters?

Beterbiev got criticized for ONE fight and you're spending weeks going back and forth with me. Povetkin was given a huge pass for being a drug cheat and some people blame his opponent. Yet you're all bent out of shape because he got criticized for ONE fight. You're probably the only the person that saw that fight. I'll keep entertaining you because I hope you become a better person/poster from now on... You picked the wrong horses to defend and the wrong topic to go all scorched earth on.

I'll reiterate that I actually like Beterbiev.

1)

I'll ignore everything you said in the beginning because you added nothing new to to the conversation.

Yes? And what exactly did you bring to the conversation that was new?


2)

If I'm being a fanboy for Ward, what do you call what you're doing?

You're being a 'fanboy' of Ward BECAUSE you're applying different standards to other boxers whilst not applying those same standards to Ward himself.

On the other hand, I'm pretty consistent. I have a standard and I stick to it. I evaluate every boxer objectively using the same standard.


3)

And of all the boxers in the world you're doing it for Beterbiev and Povetkin???

Yes and I've already explained why. Anyone with double digit IQ should be able to understand why, after I've already explained the reason in one of my previous posts.


4)

Beterbiev got criticized for ONE fight and you're spending weeks going back and forth with me.

Beterbiev is merely one of many examples of a boxer being evaluated with different standards compared to other boxers and it doesn't matter how many fights he was criticized for. That's totally irrelevant! The main relevance is to find out why such is the case and to expose the double or more standards of posters like you whilst holding you to your own standards.


5)

Povetkin was given a huge pass for being a drug cheat and some people blame his opponent.

Likewise, Andre Ward was given a huge pass for low blows (to the dick which has rarely ever been done before) and headbutts whilst some also blame his opponents for his fouls.

So what's your point now?

[HarvardBlue]

1)

Yes? And what exactly did you bring to the conversation that was new?


2)

You're being a 'fanboy' of Ward BECAUSE you're applying different standards to other boxers whilst not applying those same standards to Ward himself.

On the other hand, I'm pretty consistent. I have a standard and I stick to it. I evaluate every boxer objectively using the same standard.


3)

Yes and I've already explained why. Anyone with double digit IQ should be able to understand why, after I've already explained the reason in one of my previous posts.


4)

Beterbiev is merely one of many examples of a boxer being evaluated with different standards compared to other boxers and it doesn't matter how many fights he was criticized for. That's totally irrelevant! The main relevance is to find out why such is the case and to expose the double or more standards of posters like you whilst holding you to your own standards.


5)

Likewise, Andre Ward was given a huge pass for low blows (to the dick which has rarely ever been done before) and headbutts whilst some also blame his opponents for his fouls.

So what's your point now?

My point has been the same since day one. Every boxer get criticized for different reasons. Boxing fans don't go by "standards", they support who they want to support. Pick another topic, this one has been beat to death and you've yet to make ONE coherent point.