How is Tyson Fury a more skilled boxer than Anthony Joshua when:

[Mr Objecitivity]

AJ has the better boring Textbook boxing skills, but Fury has the swagger of Naseem Hamed and the flash which is prettier to watch. Fury fights like Frankenstein.

Right! The near 300 pound boxer who disgracefully, shamefully, pathetically and embarrassingly can't even punch with more power than a natural cruiserweight in David Haye is supposed to be 'prettier to watch' compared to Anthony Joshua whilst Anthony Joshua is meant to be boring when he is the exact opposite? Do you realize just how pathetic Tyson Fury is? It's like a 10 year old kid punching with more power than a 30 year old adult when Fury who is one of the biggest sized heavyweights today getting embarassingly over-powered in terms of punching power by natural cruiser weights and much lighter boxers.

Swagger of Prince Naseem Hamed? Prince Naseem Hamed destroys nearly every opponent his own size. Tyson Fury struggles to do that to much lighter opponents.

I guess it's pretty, great swagger, and great to fight to like Frankenstein when one outsizes every opponent but still has to box like a little woos with tapping punches whilst also doing bare minimum to win rounds by being in survival mode for most of the rounds whilst smaller sized boxers throw real power punches with more damaging intent and effect.

Tyson Fury is a pathetic boxer!

[removed]

Fury will school Juicua with ease, he's just a better boxer.


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[W1LL]

The first three posts in this thread are scary. Brain washing is a real thing.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Joe Louis doesn't have more title defenses than Wladimir Klitschko against real heavyweights (boxers weighing 200 pounds or more). If we exclude all sub-heavyweight opponents of Joe Louis (boxers weighing below 200 pounds), then Wladimir Klitschko has more title defenses.

If we're being realistic, Joe Louis wouldn't even be a heavyweight by modern standard. Instead, he'd be a cruiserweight or perhaps even a light heavyweight. The times for ancient 'heavyweights' are over because they won't qualify as heavyweights today and we go by modern standards when things get updated / upgraded if we want to avoid living in the past.

Also, having a longer reign in terms of years is totally irrelevant.

Joe Louis 26 defences. Wladimir Klitschko 23 defences. Joe Louis has more FACT.😂😂😂 More L's for you!!!!
I honestly like Wlad but he is barely top 10. He doesn't have anywhere near the resume of say Muhammad Ali. Look at the names on Ali's resume- Foreman, Fraizer, Liston, Patterson, Norton, Folley, Foster, Moore etc. All HOF'ers. Remind me how many HOF'ers did Wlad beat?
The only context you can put Wlad in the top 5 is in terms of title defences and length of title reign but as you've just admitted yourself that stuffs pretty much irrelevant. And even if you did want to rank it that way he still ranks behind Louis.
There is NO valid context to justify Wladimir Klitschko as the greatest HW of all time. The fact that you think that says a lot about your (lack of) knowledge of this sport.
C'mon man Wlad weren't even the best HW in his own family😂😂😂

[Mr Objecitivity]

Joe Louis 26 defences. Wladimir Klitschko 23 defences. Joe Louis has more FACT.������ More L's for you!!!!
I honestly like Wlad but he is barely top 10. He doesn't have anywhere near the resume of say Muhammad Ali. Look at the names on Ali's resume- Foreman, Fraizer, Liston, Patterson, Norton, Folley, Foster, Moore etc. All HOF'ers. Remind me how many HOF'ers did Wlad beat?
The only context you can put Wlad in the top 5 is in terms of title defences and length of title reign but as you've just admitted yourself that stuffs pretty much irrelevant. And even if you did want to rank it that way he still ranks behind Louis.
There is NO valid context to justify Wladimir Klitschko as the greatest HW of all time. The fact that you think that says a lot about your (lack of) knowledge of this sport.
C'mon man Wlad weren't even the best HW in his own family������

1) In regards to the number of title defenses of both Wladimir Klitschko and Joe Louis. If we exclude bouts of both where the opponents of both Joe Louis and Wladimir Klitschko were below 200 pounds, then Joe Louis only has 8 wins in title bouts. That's a fact! Whilst Wladimir Klitschko has 23 wins in title bouts. That's also a fact!

Why do I exclude bouts where both (Wladimir Klitschko's and Joe Louis's opponents were below 200 pounds? Due to the fact that they wouldn't be considered 'heavyweights' by modern standard. Rather, they would be considered cruiserweights or maybe even light heavyweights. Therefore, we can't objectively give ancient boxers like Joe Louis credit for victories against opponents that modern heavyweights wouldn't even be allowed to box against. Otherwise, if we're going to give credit to boxers like Joe Louis for having wins against sub-heavyweights (boxers weighing below 200 pounds) as 'heavyweight' victories, then we may as well consider wins of Oleksandr Usyk, Sergey Kovalev and other cruiserweights / light heavyweights as 'heavyweight' wins.

So as it stands, Wladimir Klitschko has the most number of wins in REAL heavyweight bouts (200 pound+) in history of heavyweight boxing.

2) In regards to Wladimir Klitschko being barely top 10. I challenge you to prove which boxers are ahead of him or better than him in terms of accomplishment.

3) In regards to Wlad not having anywhere near the resume of Muhammad Ali. Go ahead and actually prove how Ali's resume is better than Wlad's. It seems like you're just assuming Ali's opponents that Ali beat are better than Wlad's opponents that Wlad beat. I challenge you to substantiate your claim.

4) As for how many HOF'ers did Wlad beat. You do realize that hall of fame boxers are selected by Americans in USA and they have no objective basis on who they select as a hall of fame boxer? In other words, who they select as hall of fame worthy is no more valuable / worthy than which boxer I choose to be in the hall of fame or who anybody else chooses for that matter.

Furthermore, many of Wlad's opponents are still boxing and haven't retired. Therefore, the opportunity for them to go onto the hall of fame hasn't even arrived yet.

5) As for number of title defense being irrelevant. I never claimed any such thing. I claimed that the number of years is irrelevant when it comes to how many years one reigns as the champion. However, number of title defense isn't irrelevant.

For example, one boxer could reign as a champion for 10 years and have only 10 title defenses. On the other hand, another boxer could reign as a champion for 8 years and have 15 title defenses. What's relevant is the exact number of wins in title bouts.

6) In regards to there not being any valid context to rank Wlad as the greatest heavyweight of all time. Actually, there is. There are numerous accomplishments unmatched by any past heavyweight in history which Wlad has accomplished at modern heavyweight (when boxers weigh 200 pounds or more). Here are some of them:

1) Knocked out more previously unbeaten opponents than any other heavyweight in history.

2) Knocked out more previously UN-KO'ed opponents than any other heavyweight in history.

3) Has beaten and knocked out more southpaws than any other heavyweight champion in history.

4) Has beaten and knocked out opponents with more styles than any other heavyweight in history (especially at the elite level).

5) Has the highest number of title defenses.

6) Has the highest knockout quantity and percentage in championship bouts than any other heavyweight in history.

7) Has lost fewer rounds than any other heavyweight in history.

8) Has defeated more mandatory challengers and top ranked opponents by knockout, than any other heavyweight champion in history.

9) Has one of the best win / loss ratio in his career record, out of the number of bouts he has had.


Objectively, you can't find a boxer with a better heavyweight record than Wladimir Klitschko. These are all facts! Only Vitali Klitschko, Lennox Lewis and prime Mike Tyson come close. Those ancient heavyweights like Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali don't even qualify.

[bigjavi973]

So how do his losses mean he is prevented from being the greatest heavyweight of all time?

His best opponents he beat are arguably better than any past heavyweight (excluding Lennox Lewis perhaps).

Wladimir Klitschko has the best heavyweight record in history. Has multiple unparalleled feats matched by absolutely no past heavyweight. He is rightfully the greatest heavyweight of all time. I can come at you with facts and stats from all angles in relation to this.

[IMG]https://media3.*****.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/*****.gif[/IMG]

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

1) In regards to the number of title defenses of both Wladimir Klitschko and Joe Louis. If we exclude bouts of both where the opponents of both Joe Louis and Wladimir Klitschko were below 200 pounds, then Joe Louis only has 8 wins in title bouts. That's a fact! Whilst Wladimir Klitschko has 23 wins in title bouts. That's also a fact!

Why do I exclude bouts where both (Wladimir Klitschko's and Joe Louis's opponents were below 200 pounds? Due to the fact that they wouldn't be considered 'heavyweights' by modern standard. Rather, they would be considered cruiserweights or maybe even light heavyweights. Therefore, we can't objectively give ancient boxers like Joe Louis credit for victories against opponents that modern heavyweights wouldn't even be allowed to box against. Otherwise, if we're going to give credit to boxers like Joe Louis for having wins against sub-heavyweights (boxers weighing below 200 pounds) as 'heavyweight' victories, then we may as well consider wins of Oleksandr Usyk, Sergey Kovalev and other cruiserweights / light heavyweights as 'heavyweight' wins.

So as it stands, Wladimir Klitschko has the most number of wins in REAL heavyweight bouts (200 pound+) in history of heavyweight boxing.

2) In regards to Wladimir Klitschko being barely top 10. I challenge you to prove which boxers are ahead of him or better than him in terms of accomplishment.

3) In regards to Wlad not having anywhere near the resume of Muhammad Ali. Go ahead and actually prove how Ali's resume is better than Wlad's. It seems like you're just assuming Ali's opponents that Ali beat are better than Wlad's opponents that Wlad beat. I challenge you to substantiate your claim.

4) As for how many HOF'ers did Wlad beat. You do realize that hall of fame boxers are selected by Americans in USA and they have no objective basis on who they select as a hall of fame boxer? In other words, who they select as hall of fame worthy is no more valuable / worthy than which boxer I choose to be in the hall of fame or who anybody else chooses for that matter.

Furthermore, many of Wlad's opponents are still boxing and haven't retired. Therefore, the opportunity for them to go onto the hall of fame hasn't even arrived yet.

5) As for number of title defense being irrelevant. I never claimed any such thing. I claimed that the number of years is irrelevant when it comes to how many years one reigns as the champion. However, number of title defense isn't irrelevant.

For example, one boxer could reign as a champion for 10 years and have only 10 title defenses. On the other hand, another boxer could reign as a champion for 8 years and have 15 title defenses. What's relevant is the exact number of wins in title bouts.

6) In regards to there not being any valid context to rank Wlad as the greatest heavyweight of all time. Actually, there is. There are numerous accomplishments unmatched by any past heavyweight in history which Wlad has accomplished at modern heavyweight (when boxers weigh 200 pounds or more). Here are some of them:

1) Knocked out more previously unbeaten opponents than any other heavyweight in history.

2) Knocked out more previously UN-KO'ed opponents than any other heavyweight in history.

3) Has beaten and knocked out more southpaws than any other heavyweight champion in history.

4) Has beaten and knocked out opponents with more styles than any other heavyweight in history (especially at the elite level).

5) Has the highest number of title defenses.

6) Has the highest knockout quantity and percentage in championship bouts than any other heavyweight in history.

7) Has lost fewer rounds than any other heavyweight in history.

8) Has defeated more mandatory challengers and top ranked opponents by knockout, than any other heavyweight champion in history.

9) Has one of the best win / loss ratio in his career record, out of the number of bouts he has had.


Objectively, you can't find a boxer with a better heavyweight record than Wladimir Klitschko. These are all facts! Only Vitali Klitschko, Lennox Lewis and prime Mike Tyson come close. Those ancient heavyweights like Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali don't even qualify.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA😂😂😂😂 pure lies and irrelevant BS!! Those 9 points are the most retatded thing I've ever seen
Lost the least rounds, he got KO'd 4 times and schooled over 12 by Fury.
His win/loss ratio in title fights 25/4, not as good as Ali 22/3, not as good as Marciano undefeated, not as good as Tunney undefeated at HW, not as good as Louis 27/1, not as good as Lewis 15/2, it's not even as good as Vitali's 15/2. More HUGE L's for you😭😭😭😭
Defeated more mandatory challengers hahaha that's irrelevant nonesense there are 4 belts nowadays moron, and guys like Leapai were mandatory's.😂😂😂
Knocked out more southpaw's😭😭 Who? Pianeta? Tony Thompson?😂😂😂
Highest number of title defenses??? Wrong again ******. The HW division is unlimited you don't have to be over 200lbs to be a HW. Louis 26 > Wlad 23 FACT. Add to that Louis' were for the the lineal title and around half of Wlad's weren't.
You've just been absolutely destroyed you little cretin.😂😂😂

If Wlad is so great then name me one elite HW he beat??? Give me NAMES of elite guys he beat. Truth is you can't cause there isn't even one guy on his resume that is in any way an elite HW.

I'm honestly done with you now ******, you know NOTHING about this sport or its history. Your boxing knowledge and logic is pathetic.
I'm sure you'll come back spouting more nonesense but you will no longer get a serious response from me as your vacuous nonsense doesn't merit one.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

[IMG]https://media3.*****.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/*****.gif[/IMG]

😂😂😂Did you see his "facts and stats"😭😭😭 what a ****ing ******.

[bigjavi973]

😂😂😂Did you see his "facts and stats"😭😭😭 what a ****ing ******.

word haha

I also think its ****** that he keeps bringing up the number of fights he had (19) comparing them to others etc...

imo the number of fights dont matter really

you are either ready for the top fighters at the pro level or you are not (also promoters have alot to do with this)

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

word haha

I also think its ****** that he keeps bringing up the number of fights he had (19) comparing them to others etc...

imo the number of fights dont matter really

you are either ready for the top fighters at the pro level or you are not (also promoters have alot to do with this)

Exactly, it's like saying Loma is still a novice, AJ was an Olympic HW champion he was a guy who needed to be moved quick or he'd be treading water.