Comments Thread For: Hunter on Kovalev: Russian Fighters Don't Do Well in Dog Fights!

[Squ□redCircle34]

Before the fight... I started a thread asking if GGG might have as many fans as Canelo in the arena and I got crucified for being a moron and a GGG ballgagger.

I was called a dumb fanboy idiot for even asking if Li'l Mr 97k might bring as many fans to the fight as the A side Mexican superstar.

After the fight ... "It was a Golovkin crowd. They was all GGG fanboy casuals"

So now who's making excuses?

Kind of weird that the same crowd who cheered Canelo like crazy during the intros had turned into Golovtards by the end of the fight innit?

Checking your history I can def see why you were called a ggg ballgagger!

You literally think Kov ended Ward's career and believe Beterbiev was ducked by Ward! LMAOO

GGG brings out the casuals and the fans who know nothing of the sweet science or fundamentals of the sport!

It's funny GGG in his post fight locker room pic didn't have the look of a winner but of a man beaten up and was force fed a created gift store belt to pay more sanctioning fees!

I'll give it you ggg fanatics, you guys are more determined than scorned women!

[Squ□redCircle34]

Dude nobody is gonna read that term paper you just wrote

Lmao i told him to do what I do by cutting it into paragraphs but he won't listen!

He's basically posting for nothing at this point, everyones skipping that shid!
😂😂

[argentinabox22]

Again...Klitschko is not russian....ignorant mofos..And for the people talking about Golovkin, he's not russian either.
And what happened to Zab judah against Tszyu? This is dumb, fighters lose regardless of their nationality, race, religion, etc, etc. Virgil once again with some dumb bull*****

[BlakBread904]

Jirov beat toney for first 11 rds then in twelth toney drops him and jirov gets up and beats toney for remainder of rd. 11 to 1 for jirov. Jirov was robbed

idk about that

[Butch.McRae]

Again...Klitschko is not russian....ignorant mofos..And for the people talking about Golovkin, he's not russian either.
And what happened to Zab judah against Tszyu? This is dumb, fighters lose regardless of their nationality, race, religion, etc, etc. Virgil once again with some dumb bull*****

These guys aren't very articulate. Very few people in boxing are lol I think he meant Eastern European fighters. And it's kind of true to a degree.

They don't seem to like fighting on the inside. They're remarkable at placing punches and picking you off in range. But it'd be hard to deny that almost all of them have a hard time throwing solid shots on the inside.

Just look at the GGG v. Canelo fight. Either Canelo was out of range or he was in the pocket throwing sharp counters. GGG was throwing back, but all his work on the inside looked tame compared to how sharp he punches at range. He landed few if any solid/sharp punches at close quarters.

Provodnikov is an exception to me. He has solid work at close quarters.

[Afi23]

And Andre Ward doesn't do well in clean fights, or fights on even playing fields period, which is why fought almost his entire career in his home city, home-or-adjacent state(s), or home country, and which is why it has since been admitted by Ken Herschmann, head of Showtime sports at the time, that the foundation of Ward's so-called "legacy," the Super 6 tournament, was hand-picked and puppetered by Herschmann to advantage Ward or Dirrell, but especially Ward, in order to "create an American star," or "Showtime's Floyd Mayweather."

The entire Super 6 was "set up to create an American star," meaning they planned for Ward to win, and set up the tournament to accomplish just that outcome by making every other boxer travel besides Ward, and by selecting only slower, European style opponents, mostly past prime (Kessler) or blown-up in weight (Arthur Abraham), who they knew would favor Ward's style.

How did they know that would favor Ward's style? Well Virgil or Ward's team must have told them, because if you look at Ward's resumé, you'll find they knew the exact same thing, and kept Ward well protected from styles that would pull back the curtain on the illusion that he was some generational talent. They were willing to fight all the Arthur Abraham's, Mikkel Kessler's, and Carl Froch's of the world, and heck, even the apex of that style, Sergey Kovalev, but only after they caught wind that he was no longer dedicated to boxing anymore around the time of his son's birth, and that had started drinking and so forth, but they were never once willing to fight the athletic southpaws around their weight, from Lucian Bute to James Degale to Adonis Stevenson, or even the other athletic fighters period, such as Andre Dirrell.

To me Lucian Bute and James Degale are 2 bad examples to make your case. For one, you did see what happened to Bute when he faced for the first time a real DOG in Carl Froch?
Second, Degale is notorious for fighting down to the style of his opponent. Degale is so overconfident in his skills that he thinks that he can fight any kind of fight. For example, instead of staying on the outside against Badou, he decided to stay in the middle and **** with Badou. He's lost a tooth and has been on IR (injured reserve) ever since!

[Vlad_]

I never liked fighters from the Eastern bloc. All dirty asf

Are you serious?

[HURTFEELINGS]

Russian fighters... lol... so now he's painting an entire country a certain way lol... Let's all take a knee...

That’s not to say all of them do, ........., but the names that I just put out there, they’ve done it," -- Virgil Hunter (same article) some people
only see what they want to see

[kafkod]

And Andre Ward doesn't do well in clean fights, or fights on even playing fields period, which is why fought almost his entire career in his home city, home-or-adjacent state(s), or home country, and which is why it has since been admitted by Ken Herschmann, head of Showtime sports at the time, that the foundation of Ward's so-called "legacy," the Super 6 tournament, was hand-picked and puppetered by Herschmann to advantage Ward or Dirrell, but especially Ward, in order to "create an American star," or "Showtime's Floyd Mayweather."

The entire Super 6 was "set up to create an American star," meaning they planned for Ward to win, and set up the tournament to accomplish just that outcome by making every other boxer travel besides Ward, and by selecting only slower, European style opponents, mostly past prime (Kessler) or blown-up in weight (Arthur Abraham), who they knew would favor Ward's style.

How did they know that would favor Ward's style? Well Virgil or Ward's team must have told them, because if you look at Ward's resumé, you'll find they knew the exact same thing, and kept Ward well protected from styles that would pull back the curtain on the illusion that he was some generational talent. They were willing to fight all the Arthur Abraham's, Mikkel Kessler's, and Carl Froch's of the world, and heck, even the apex of that style, Sergey Kovalev, but only after they caught wind that he was no longer dedicated to boxing anymore around the time of his son's birth, and that had started drinking and so forth, but they were never once willing to fight the athletic southpaws around their weight, from Lucian Bute to James Degale to Adonis Stevenson, or even the other athletic fighters period, such as Andre Dirrell.

Ward has always been a defensive boxer with a combination skills, speed, and power that ranged from B-level to A-minus, but never A-level or A-plus, so in order to create the illusion he was truly elite, despite lacking the A-plus elite level abilities of say a Floyd Mayweather or Roy Jones, they had to always match him only against guys with C-level to B-level speed, skills, and power. This created the illusion that Andre Ward had elite hand speed, when really Froch, Abraham, and Kessler simply had slow hand speed. This created the illusion that Ward had elite skills, when really it was that his opponents, and you can throw in Sakio Bika and Edwin Rodriguez as well, all fought the clumsier, slower, "pressure ****er" style that made Ward appear more than he was.

And of course, when Team Ward finally had to match Ward against a real opponent in order to get on PPV and attempt to make Ward a PPV star for the future, even if it was one who they had the advantage of knowing (another pre-fight advantage for Andre Ward! Has any boxer ever gotten more??) from spies in his camp that he hadn't been training the same, that he had been drinking, and that he was having major stamina problems, Team Ward knew they could no longer make Ward look dominant, so their plan was at least to keep undefeated... win today, look good tomorrow... and to do that, they needed major help from the referee and the judges. But, given that both Showtime, HBO, and the American boxing establishment at large have been trying to make Ward into a star for the last decade, and have poured lots of unreturned money into him, and were never going to jeopardize all that just to be fair to a "racist Russian" they all seem to dislike, that was never going to be a problem.

But it looks like the whole time they thought they were conning boxing fans in order to make big $$$ off the long-con later, it was actually Andre Ward conning them. They got him to agree to fight one single real, not incidentally pay-per-view, opponent, I guess because he knew his career would be seen as a joke if he never did, and then the mandated rematch, but only once they agreed to overpay him by a mile, expecting that a second fixed "win" over Kovalev would propel Ward to superstardom where they could make their money back off him, but instead, Ward took their money and ran off at age 33 with his money, his health, and the "AMAZING" legacy that exists in his head precisely because they put it there.

All this time they were busy brainwashing fans so they could make money off Ward, they didn't realize they were brainwashing Ward even worse than the fans, to the point that he become so self-satisfied with his "exceptional" career that he didn't even feel any desire to fight the best anymore.

But that's what Showtime and HBO never understood from the beginning: Ward never did. They made the mistake of trying to make a PPV star out of someone who didn't want to fight PPV opponents. I guess they got tricked by Floyd Mayweather, who was somehow able to sell millions of PPVs without fighting top opponents, but that was a very unique case. With Ward, that didn't work out so well, sales wise. But they were so in love with the fact he was an American gold medalist that they seemed to overlook everything else. In the future, they would be smart to learn from that, and start favoring the boxers who will fight the best, regardless of whether they are American, rather than always favoring American boxers, regardless of whether they will fight the best.

In closing, the formula for creating the illusion of Andre Ward's career has been as follows:

1. Cherry pick slow, unathletic, unskilled "plodder" style opponents in order to make Ward's good skills and athleticism appear "great," and then use refs that will let Ward foul those opponents endlessly on top of all that in order to fatigue those plodder opponents and take away one of the only two advantages they did have over Ward, power, and in order to protect Ward's chin, which is the other advantage they had. Also make every fight in Ward's backyard in order to help him feel more comfortable than his opponents, since small advantages add up in boxing.

2. The one time they had to pick a top opponent, delay the fight until the perfect time, when the opponent is 33 years old (1 year past the end of most offensive boxer's primes), and only after the moles in his camp, either paid off or friendly to Ward due to their own nationalist biases (i.e. more hometown favoritism for Ward), tell him that this opponent is not dedicated to boxing anymore, and has drinking problems, etc. Then after losing to that opponent even despite those things, have establishment Vegas judges in place to protect your record. Then for the rematch, juice up so much there is acne all over your back for the first time as a pro, and have the referee bought off too to stop the fight on a succession of fouls.

All of that was supposed to make Ward a PPV star, but not only did they overrate how many people would pay to see him cheat and be protected through another fight, it seems they underestimated Sergey Kovalev as well, because after 20 rounds with the Krusher, the man who was planning moves to Cruiserweight and Heavyweight afterwards has since retired. The biased judges saw one thing in those fights, but the fans saw another, and the toll those 20 rounds took on Ward's body is just more evidence of who really won their fights, as much as any winner can be declared for the second fight given the ref stopped it early (I believe Kovalev was on his way to winning that fight even with all the fouling and the resulting fatigue that got him caught and hurt. Ward fans will disagree. Due to Tony Weeks likely corruption, none of us will ever know). Judging the 20 rounds as one, however, which is really all you can do given the second fight was stopped on fouls, I had Kovalev winning more rounds than Ward, landing more punches than Ward, scoring more knockdowns than Ward, being the effective aggressor much more than Ward, and judging from Ward's retirement, doing more damage to Ward than Ward did to him. On the flipside, there were rounds where Ward landed the snappier shots, but I've had experts tell me that snappier does not always mean harder, and Ward's retirement may be evidence of that.

In any case, we can all agree on one thing, boxing is in a much better place now that it can move forward from an era where Andre Ward, Floyd Mayweather, and Bernard Hopkins took far too many significant dates in the boxing calender away from the next generation of true, clean boxers who are much less picky in who they choose to fight. It's time for boxing to focus on those guys, guys who will fight anyone and bring the sport back to where it should be. No more cherry picking. No more holding and elbowing and headbutting and cheating. Let's have real boxing, and real matchups, again!

I've been saying this for a long time .. Ward was and is the biggest hype-job fraud in the history of boxing.

He has many admirable qualities ... guts, guile, focus and determination ... but he is not the elite, ATG fighter his backers have sold him as. They found out to their cost ... nobody makes money from Andre Ward but Andre Ward himself.

[Vlad_]

And Andre Ward doesn't do well in clean fights, or fights on even playing fields period, which is why fought almost his entire career in his home city, home-or-adjacent state(s), or home country, and which is why it has since been admitted by Ken Herschmann, head of Showtime sports at the time, that the foundation of Ward's so-called "legacy," the Super 6 tournament, was hand-picked and puppetered by Herschmann to advantage Ward or Dirrell, but especially Ward, in order to "create an American star," or "Showtime's Floyd Mayweather."

The entire Super 6 was "set up to create an American star," meaning they planned for Ward to win, and set up the tournament to accomplish just that outcome by making every other boxer travel besides Ward, and by selecting only slower, European style opponents, mostly past prime (Kessler) or blown-up in weight (Arthur Abraham), who they knew would favor Ward's style.

How did they know that would favor Ward's style? Well Virgil or Ward's team must have told them, because if you look at Ward's resumé, you'll find they knew the exact same thing, and kept Ward well protected from styles that would pull back the curtain on the illusion that he was some generational talent. They were willing to fight all the Arthur Abraham's, Mikkel Kessler's, and Carl Froch's of the world, and heck, even the apex of that style, Sergey Kovalev, but only after they caught wind that he was no longer dedicated to boxing anymore around the time of his son's birth, and that had started drinking and so forth, but they were never once willing to fight the athletic southpaws around their weight, from Lucian Bute to James Degale to Adonis Stevenson, or even the other athletic fighters period, such as Andre Dirrell.

Ward has always been a defensive boxer with a combination skills, speed, and power that ranged from B-level to A-minus, but never A-level or A-plus, so in order to create the illusion he was truly elite, despite lacking the A-plus elite level abilities of say a Floyd Mayweather or Roy Jones, they had to always match him only against guys with C-level to B-level speed, skills, and power. This created the illusion that Andre Ward had elite hand speed, when really Froch, Abraham, and Kessler simply had slow hand speed. This created the illusion that Ward had elite skills, when really it was that his opponents, and you can throw in Sakio Bika and Edwin Rodriguez as well, all fought the clumsier, slower, "pressure ****er" style that made Ward appear more than he was.

And of course, when Team Ward finally had to match Ward against a real opponent in order to get on PPV and attempt to make Ward a PPV star for the future, even if it was one who they had the advantage of knowing (another pre-fight advantage for Andre Ward! Has any boxer ever gotten more??) from spies in his camp that he hadn't been training the same, that he had been drinking, and that he was having major stamina problems, Team Ward knew they could no longer make Ward look dominant, so their plan was at least to keep undefeated... win today, look good tomorrow... and to do that, they needed major help from the referee and the judges. But, given that both Showtime, HBO, and the American boxing establishment at large have been trying to make Ward into a star for the last decade, and have poured lots of unreturned money into him, and were never going to jeopardize all that just to be fair to a "racist Russian" they all seem to dislike, that was never going to be a problem.

But it looks like the whole time they thought they were conning boxing fans in order to make big $$$ off the long-con later, it was actually Andre Ward conning them. They got him to agree to fight one single real, not incidentally pay-per-view, opponent, I guess because he knew his career would be seen as a joke if he never did, and then the mandated rematch, but only once they agreed to overpay him by a mile, expecting that a second fixed "win" over Kovalev would propel Ward to superstardom where they could make their money back off him, but instead, Ward took their money and ran off at age 33 with his money, his health, and the "AMAZING" legacy that exists in his head precisely because they put it there.

All this time they were busy brainwashing fans so they could make money off Ward, they didn't realize they were brainwashing Ward even worse than the fans, to the point that he become so self-satisfied with his "exceptional" career that he didn't even feel any desire to fight the best anymore.

But that's what Showtime and HBO never understood from the beginning: Ward never did. They made the mistake of trying to make a PPV star out of someone who didn't want to fight PPV opponents. I guess they got tricked by Floyd Mayweather, who was somehow able to sell millions of PPVs without fighting top opponents, but that was a very unique case. With Ward, that didn't work out so well, sales wise. But they were so in love with the fact he was an American gold medalist that they seemed to overlook everything else. In the future, they would be smart to learn from that, and start favoring the boxers who will fight the best, regardless of whether they are American, rather than always favoring American boxers, regardless of whether they will fight the best.

In closing, the formula for creating the illusion of Andre Ward's career has been as follows:

1. Cherry pick slow, unathletic, unskilled "plodder" style opponents in order to make Ward's good skills and athleticism appear "great," and then use refs that will let Ward foul those opponents endlessly on top of all that in order to fatigue those plodder opponents and take away one of the only two advantages they did have over Ward, power, and in order to protect Ward's chin, which is the other advantage they had. Also make every fight in Ward's backyard in order to help him feel more comfortable than his opponents, since small advantages add up in boxing.

2. The one time they had to pick a top opponent, delay the fight until the perfect time, when the opponent is 33 years old (1 year past the end of most offensive boxer's primes), and only after the moles in his camp, either paid off or friendly to Ward due to their own nationalist biases (i.e. more hometown favoritism for Ward), tell him that this opponent is not dedicated to boxing anymore, and has drinking problems, etc. Then after losing to that opponent even despite those things, have establishment Vegas judges in place to protect your record. Then for the rematch, juice up so much there is acne all over your back for the first time as a pro, and have the referee bought off too to stop the fight on a succession of fouls.

All of that was supposed to make Ward a PPV star, but not only did they overrate how many people would pay to see him cheat and be protected through another fight, it seems they underestimated Sergey Kovalev as well, because after 20 rounds with the Krusher, the man who was planning moves to Cruiserweight and Heavyweight afterwards has since retired. The biased judges saw one thing in those fights, but the fans saw another, and the toll those 20 rounds took on Ward's body is just more evidence of who really won their fights, as much as any winner can be declared for the second fight given the ref stopped it early (I believe Kovalev was on his way to winning that fight even with all the fouling and the resulting fatigue that got him caught and hurt. Ward fans will disagree. Due to Tony Weeks likely corruption, none of us will ever know). Judging the 20 rounds as one, however, which is really all you can do given the second fight was stopped on fouls, I had Kovalev winning more rounds than Ward, landing more punches than Ward, scoring more knockdowns than Ward, being the effective aggressor much more than Ward, and judging from Ward's retirement, doing more damage to Ward than Ward did to him. On the flipside, there were rounds where Ward landed the snappier shots, but I've had experts tell me that snappier does not always mean harder, and Ward's retirement may be evidence of that.

In any case, we can all agree on one thing, boxing is in a much better place now that it can move forward from an era where Andre Ward, Floyd Mayweather, and Bernard Hopkins took far too many significant dates in the boxing calender away from the next generation of true, clean boxers who are much less picky in who they choose to fight. It's time for boxing to focus on those guys, guys who will fight anyone and bring the sport back to where it should be. No more cherry picking. No more holding and elbowing and headbutting and cheating. Let's have real boxing, and real matchups, again!

A great write up. You really lived up to your name with this one. I tried to Green K you but it tells me I have to spread around some reputation. Good stuff!