Why HBO Sent Top Rank Packing and if Bob isn't careful ESPN will too

Collapse
Collapse
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • whoelsebutjames
    Interim Champion
    • Sep 2008
    • 607
    • 44
    • 3
    • 7,120

    #21
    Originally posted by Mitchell Kane
    Game of Thrones is a huge success story.

    On the other hand, there's Vinyl....



    Thanks for your insightful critiscm. It's underrated around here.

    Exaxtly. They renewed it and quickly canxeled it. I drew parrellism between the shoes and boxing events but there are some differences. Such as, if HBO thinks a show has potential to grow it will waste money in producing a show hoping it pays out later. Most shows gain popularity until they hit their peak towards the end of the series.

    They also do that with boxing, as with any star building, but I think over the years they figured out it wasn't going to get better. Mainly, because the division of HBO only and SHOW Only fighters means the better fights won't get made. They were forced to carry Bobs vendetta even if it wasn't lucrative which is another implied point of thread.

    Thanks for the links I didn't know that damn show was so expensive. I figured high-period pieces are always high. I like reading about njmbers. . I watched vynl and thought it was garbage heard it was renewed then canceled. I was thinking maybe it would get better down the line. How they screwed up such an interesting topic is beyond me!! I



    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/23/b...l.html?mcubz=3


    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...-at-hbo-905537
    First off thanks for having insightful critiscm. It's underrated around here
    Exaxtly. They renewed it and quickly changed their mind and canceled it.
    Originally posted by JuniorTorres720
    Insightful post

    In my opinion I believe the boxing fan is starting to make their voice heard by not paying for these mismatches. It's somewhat of a boycott. You can continue the charade of glamoured up mismatches until fans start to take notice that they're not competitive fights. That's the problem. Fans are starting to demand real fights and have grown tired of mismatches.Boxing is a business, I agree and believe fighters deserve great purses for putting their lives on the line. But at the same time boxing will always continue to be a sport and that's why people watch. They want to see the best fighting the best. 2017 has been a great year for boxing and it's going to culminate in fashion with the Super Flyweight tripleheader and Canelo/GGG. I hope that this is ongoing trend.
    2017 has been a good year my friend. I don't expect every fight to be a barn burner, and understand fighters have to build. But, I think Bob needed some light shed on him for his repeated smear campaigns and tactics. If Bob wants to mitigate risks and maximize profits, fine. But if he can smear others with lies I can certainly challenge him with facts.

    Thanks for reading.

    Originally posted by Jsmooth9876
    TR saw some money and an opportunity to air their stars against bums like they enjoy doing. HBO said good luck with that, we will just keep raking in the money making Game Of Thrones and other original content.
    Showtime jumped in with both feet and they're still getting **** ratings. Boxing is not picking up any more fans, it's a niche sport at this point.
    It's definatly a niche. The big fights get a lot of attention but everything in between is for the cult only. That's also why are journalism sucks. There are some insightful writers but they are few and far in between.

    Most of our journalist sounds like a marketing campaign. (*Hint *hint ). Bought and paid for. Any other sport this article would have been written a 100 times already and not by a poster in a forum. There would be less hype jobs and let's downs for the sport if they left reservations for unprovens. One good win and the hype train starts. It sounds like a good campaign until you realize you've set unrealistic standards. Casuals expect these undefeatable monsters that as soon as boxer has a bad or loosing performance his fan base evaporates. Reasonable expectations make reasonable considerations. I won't say that boxing can't get bigger but I wouldn't bet on it.

    Thanks for taking the time to read.

    Originally posted by GhostofDempsey
    You're almost as bad as Mirko Troll Cop with his daily GGG bashing threads, only it's Arum that has ruined your life instead.

    PBC has about 180 fighters in their line-up, give or take. Between now and the end of October there fights are:

    Benavidez vs. Gavril on SHO tonight.

    Barrios vs. Nelson on FOX Tues.

    Barthelemy vs. Ramirez Sep 26th on Fox.

    Santa Cruz vs. Avalos and Mares vs. Gutierrez Oct 14th on Fox

    Lara vs. Gausha, Charlo vs. Lubin, and Hurd vs. Trout on Oct 14th on SHO.

    Even Charlo doesn't know why he is fighting Lubin, LOL.

    So there you have it, some real barn-burners in the works for PBC/SHO. Can't wait to see what's in store for Nov/Dec and early 2018. LMAO!
    First, off you get a little respect for not blocking me after you said your peace. That's a sissy tactic, so I give you partial respect for that.

    Ok we get it. Haymon promotions are flailing. You sound obsessed always showing up and off topic. I'm sorry that my freedom of speech offends you. I'm also sorry that you can't comprehend complex subjects without reducing them to the most basic level.

    You are so dense that you can't realize that I'm being rational and your being emotionally, obsessive compulsive. You have an OCD complex about destroying Floyd with as little reasesrched facts as possible.

    Your also, right, this is an Arum tear down thread as was the other one. It's a rational facts based tear down. Not the emotional slander you prefer to entertain. I do like Floyd. I also know who the number one person is responsible for falsey misrepresenting his legacy. His name is Bob Arum. In fact, I even have a little bit more in store for Arum. And then, I will be done. I'm sending Floyd off into retirement the good way- letting his fans know the truth that they didn't hear elsewhere.

    Face kid. I can beat you on any level you like. You watch boxing and you know that styles makes fights. Some people have your number, I have yours.

    Originally posted by IMDAZED
    Good post. I think we all know how this Top Rank / ESPN deal is going to end.

    So when is Arum going to admit that he isn't getting any licensing fee from ESPN? No matter how much he tries to hide it under the "It's not a time buy" comment?
    Last edited by whoelsebutjames; 09-08-2017, 04:37 PM.

    Comment

    • Mitchell Kane
      Undisputed Champion
      Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
      • Mar 2008
      • 3205
      • 66
      • 0
      • 10,996

      #22
      Originally posted by Eff Pandas
      I actually felt like this was coming for a long time & its not about all the stuff mentioned although respect for the homework you did.

      Nelson & Arum do not like each other. The day Nelson got his job several cats where saying this would not go well between these two. Its just a headache for these two to deal with each other. And there is nothing that HBO offers Arum or Arum offers HBO that makes them need to deal with the other guy for longer then was necessary.
      Arum's clashes with HBO aren't new, look at what went down in 2011 when Arum took Cotto-Mayorga/Pacquiao-Mosley to SHO....Ross Greenburg ended up leaving HBO and then Arum brought Pacquiao back to HBO.

      I think difference between that time and now go far beyond HBO turning down particular fights or who happens to be running HBO Sports/Boxing.

      After the PBC started, Hershman and HBO tried to help them...they used their influence to get that Turner Sports deal done for the TruTV series that never really took off.

      That series fell through, Hershman leaves HBO, Nelson replaces Hershman and soon after everyone starts talking about HBO's budget restraints.

      The writing has been on the wall regarding Top Rank and HBO for a while now.

      Early last year, Arum had the problems getting Lomachenko-Walters done, even taking the desperate-looking step of taking a meeting with SHO. Lomachenko ended up spending the first half of the year on the shelf. Furthermore, Top Rank lost money on Pacquiao-Bradley III and couldn't even get Crawford-Postol on HBO, forcing them to take it to take it to PPV, which also lost money.

      Top Rank needed to make major changes, HBO and UniMas wasn't getting it done....which is they started having meetings with ESPN, NBC, FOX, Amazon.

      This ESPN deal may or may not work, but it must've been the best of what was available.

      Meanwhile, it's not like HBO is out there spending a bunch of money on other fights.
      Last edited by Mitchell Kane; 09-08-2017, 08:11 PM.

      Comment

      • al-Xander
        Undisputed Champion
        Super Champion - 5,000-10,000 posts
        • Oct 2010
        • 7412
        • 369
        • 122
        • 13,790

        #23
        Originally posted by Mitchell Kane
        Meanwhile, it's not like HBO is out there spending a bunch of money on other fights.
        That's what should be pointed out clearly.

        Why is it so bad when TR leaves HBO, yet the same people who see it as negative celebrated in the streets when Haymon, Schaefer, TBE left?

        Comment

        • whoelsebutjames
          Interim Champion
          • Sep 2008
          • 607
          • 44
          • 3
          • 7,120

          #24
          Originally posted by Mitchell Kane
          Arum's clashes with HBO aren't new, look at what went down in 2011 when Arum took Cotto-Mayorga/Pacquiao-Mosley to SHO....Ross Greenburg ended up leaving HBO and then Arum brought Pacquiao back to HBO.......
          This ESPN deal may or may not work, but it must've been the best of what was available.

          Meanwhile, it's not like HBO is out there spending a bunch of money on other fights.

          Originally posted by Mitchell Kane
          Another point I meant to make was that it's a common tactic for big businesses loose money up front but they intention is to eventually to gain it back in the long run. It may appear that I exaggerated the importance of the numbers to HBO as of right now(meaning in the short term), as HBO has always been willing to pay top dollars for exclusivity to Too boxers, again in the short term.

          Let's look at the long term....HBOs boxing budget shrink from 100 mil in 2000 all the way down to 25 mil in 2017. See, the difference. The boxing department might be perfectly willing to pay 2 million for a Golovkin fight that gets 1.5 mil viewers but in the long run the Top execs are saying that's not good enough for return. HBOs(home boxing office) boxing is more of a historical commitment(1973)to tradition, and their subscribes have come to expect it. HOW MUCH content they're going to provide is questionable and evidenced by the LONG TERM trend. I thought the thread was already top long so some details got cut.

          2000 100 mil
          2013 35 mil
          2017 25 mil
          How long before the clock runs down?

          Other details such as the one brought up by Effpanda, I hadn't put much consideration on but it was good point. As it illustrates the short term I was just referring too. HBO SPORTS pushing out Arum in favor of K2- but, the overall trend is for the Execs that boxing significances declines. Which is a point I IMPLY BUT didn't EMPHASIZE enough that HBO SPORTS overall strategy is economically dumb, even they momentarily wisened up. The warning signs were there.

          But Effpanda, if you read between the line you will see what Nelson was hinting at. Look at this dimly veiled jab from Nelson and see if they are not connected.
          --------------------------
          "We don't try to litigate opinions," Nelson responded. "We just try to create great fights and work with fighters who are committed to trying to keep the sport elevated. Every time there's an opportunity to make a great fight we go out on the hunt and most of the time we find that the fighters who want to fight on HBO want to dare to be great and those are the fighters we want on the network every single time."
          ------
          Compare that to the quote in my initial post where HBO says they love Crawford and Lomachenko but can't show EVERY FIGHT. Subtle.

          --------02/2016
          "Right now there are no dates set on the boxing calendar for WBC super lightweight titlist, Viktor Postol (promoted by Top Rank) and WBO featherweight beltholder Vasyl Lomachenko -*which irks Bob Arum of Top Rank....."If it's not somebody who was created by Peter Nelson (Executive Vice President of HBO Sports) - he's not interested."
          Arum cracked - "He would program 'Chocolatito' (Roman Gonzalez) against anybody every month because he feels he created 'Chocolatito'"
          -------------------
          Victor Postol was undefeated at the time. You mean they didn't buy into to him?? Lol
          ------------/----
          We have*subscribers who are heavily engaged in boxing who believe they deserve a quality product,” Peter Nelson, executive vice president of HBO Sports, said in an interview Friday with The Times.

          The news follows showrunner Terence Winter's departure after a disappointing freshman run.


          Originally posted by Eff Pandas
          I actually felt like this was coming for a long time & its not about all the stuff mentioned although respect for the homework you did.

          Nelson & Arum do not like each other. The day Nelson got his job several cats where saying this would not go well between these two. Its just a headache for these two to deal with each other. And there is nothing that HBO offers Arum or Arum offers HBO that makes them need to deal with the other guy for longer then was necessary.
          Sorry, was busy snd couldn't give a proper response earlier. Another long post i know.
          Last edited by whoelsebutjames; 09-08-2017, 08:10 PM.

          Comment

          • Steven Mccowan
            Undisputed Champion
            Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
            • Feb 2017
            • 2144
            • 54
            • 58
            • 14,999

            #25
            Originally posted by whoelsebutjames
            Why you taking it so personal?!?! Lmao
            Im not... Just laughing at you casuals haha

            Comment

            • whoelsebutjames
              Interim Champion
              • Sep 2008
              • 607
              • 44
              • 3
              • 7,120

              #26
              Originally posted by Steven Mccowan
              Im not... Just laughing at you casuals haha
              I'm all ears....explain.

              Comment

              • IMDAZED
                Fair but Firm
                Franchise Champion - 20,000+ posts
                • May 2006
                • 42644
                • 1,134
                • 1,770
                • 67,152

                #27
                Originally posted by whoelsebutjames
                I'm all ears....explain.
                So am I. All ears.

                Comment

                • Mitchell Kane
                  Undisputed Champion
                  Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 3205
                  • 66
                  • 0
                  • 10,996

                  #28
                  Originally posted by JoeMan
                  That's what should be pointed out clearly.

                  Why is it so bad when TR leaves HBO, yet the same people who see it as negative celebrated in the streets when Haymon, Schaefer, TBE left?
                  Yeah, I mean, you can look at the purses of recent HBO shows and see what kind of money they're working with.

                  Gonzalez $600k
                  Sor Rungvisai $170k
                  Inoue $182.5k
                  Nieves $35k
                  Cuadras $62.5k
                  Estrada $65k

                  http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/i...stubhub-center

                  Cotto $750k
                  Kamegai $190
                  Vargas $50k
                  Rios $75k



                  Berchelt $280k
                  Miura $195k

                  http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/i...htweight-title

                  Comment

                  • whoelsebutjames
                    Interim Champion
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 607
                    • 44
                    • 3
                    • 7,120

                    #29
                    Originally posted by Mitchell Kane
                    Yeah, I mean, you can look at the purses of recent HBO shows and see what kind of money they're working with.

                    Gonzalez $600k
                    Sor Rungvisai $170k
                    Inoue $182.5k
                    Nieves $35k
                    Cuadras $62.5k
                    Estrada $65k

                    http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/i...stubhub-center

                    Cotto $750k
                    Kamegai $190
                    Vargas $50k
                    Rios $75k



                    Berchelt $280k
                    Miura $195k

                    http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/i...htweight-title

                    Good post and good links.

                    Remeber when I said about when Vasyl needed an opponent. As in to say he got a belt in 3 fights. This is good link too.
                    https://www.******.com/334951-wbo-pu...ry-russell-jr/


                    -----
                    Lol and here's another quote from Bob for good measure.
                    Arum: "Only problem I have with Lomachenko is convincing him the opponent creates a challenge. He argues with me -- 'Why should I fight him? It's no challenge.' We told him Sosa is the kind of the guy who bulls forward, not going to quit, going to press him and make a very impressive fight."(About Jason Sosa)

                    Lol.... pathetic.

                    Jason Sosa's co-promoter(co-p w/Top Rank), Russell Peltz, did his best to put a positive spin on the fight at Thursday's final prefight news conference

                    "They say we're not going to win one second of one round in this fight," Peltz said. "Some of my closest friends in boxing, both of them, tell me that I'm leading a sacrificial lamb to slaughter.

                    Let's hear from Sosa for Good measure
                    Jason Sosa said, "He is the closest fighter to perfection in boxing," Sosa said.

                    This is from a Dan Rafael article. Lol. Dan should know better. He tries to justify it by saying no one will fight him. He's Arum Crony Writer.

                    Comment

                    • whoelsebutjames
                      Interim Champion
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 607
                      • 44
                      • 3
                      • 7,120

                      #30
                      Need more trolls

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      TOP