Where do you rate Floyd in ATG p4p list?

[JK1700]

If we're just talking skills/all around ability he's the GOAT. If we're talking "legacy" and popularity obviously that's a whole different argument that he probably can't win. Depends how you define greatness, but I define it in terms of skill and there's never been anyone more skilled in boxing history.

[Johnny2x2x]

Just so we are all on the same page in this thread, a quick recap.

1) You have two posters trying to sell how what Floyd did in the ring is somehow diminished since, according to the two posters, Floyd never faced and beat another ATG in their prime.

2) When given the names of men who fit the description of ATGs, they deny that those men are ATGs.

3) When presented with two general consensus ATGs who ALSO never faced other prime ATGs (Dempsey and Louis) they seem to be at a loss to reconcile that fact with what they are contending about Mayweather.

I think my work is done here.

2 more hypocrites bite the dust.

Props. Didn't fight ATGs is the same thing as saying he wasn't born in the right era. Floyd fought everyone he needed to near to his weight in his era.

[MurkaMan]

Sorry. You're right, I'm trolling. I genuinely believe you could beat SRR.

I know you believe it. You dont think much of him as a fighter. He's a throwback so you are going to lie, but now you were honest! Tnx!

[JK1700]

The thing is this - people don't want to give Floyd credit because of the likability factor. However once Ali retired and boxing was nowhere near as good without him, people started to miss him and all of a sudden all these haters changed their minds and started calling him the greatest. Expect something very similar to happen with Mayweather. In 10-20 years I guarantee a lot of people will look back on him as the best ever. Skill wise I gotta agree. Sugar Ray Robinson is a legend and a pioneer for the sport of boxing and I'm a huge fan of him too, but if you watched both of them fight you know Mayweather was better. There's guys who had more super fights than him like Leonard for example but that doesn't make you better just because you came along in a era where there was more ATGs. In the end it comes down to the total package and all aspects of boxing and Floyd is the most complete/most skilled fighter in all of boxing history. By definition that makes him the GOAT. However there are some people who define greatness by other things like how many big fights you've had and of course Floyd being so disliked doesn't help him in this debate because whether you are or not, a lot of people won't admit that you're the best if they don't like you.

[koolkc107]

Props. Didn't fight ATGs is the same thing as saying he wasn't born in the right era. Floyd fought everyone he needed to near to his weight in his era.

And there are valid explanations as to why a fight didn't take place sooner or at all in pretty much every case except that of Paul Williams- and even that has the element of both being Haymon fighters to kinda mitigate the duck.

Those who say Cotto should have happened sooner discount that Floyd would have fought him earlier if not for Arum and also pay no attention to Cotto's handlers at the time who thought Miguel was "too green" for Floyd.

Those who say Mosley should have happened sooner discount the fact that Floyd actively called for the fight earlier and that it was Shane that had "a toothache" he needed to take care of first.

Margarito was about money and only money- more was available against other guys and more status was available with wins against those others as well.

And it goes on and on. There is always a logical reason in every case, some not very flattering to those Floyd supposedly ducked (Kostya Tszyu comes to mind).

[daggum]

And there are valid explanations as to why a fight didn't take place sooner or at all in pretty much every case except that of Paul Williams- and even that has the element of both being Haymon fighters to kinda mitigate the duck.

Those who say Cotto should have happened sooner discount that Floyd would have fought him earlier if not for Arum and also pay no attention to Cotto's handlers at the time who thought Miguel was "too green" for Floyd.

Those who say Mosley should have happened sooner discount the fact that Floyd actively called for the fight earlier and that it was Shane that had "a toothache" he needed to take care of first.

Margarito was about money and only money- more was available against other guys and more status was available with wins against those others as well.

And it goes on and on. There is always a logical reason in every case, some not very flattering to those Floyd supposedly ducked (Kostya Tszyu comes to mind).

no there arent. a floyd-cotto fight at 140 would not have been a super fight and it would not have been considered a great legacy win. no one was calling for that fight because cotto was in fact green. at 147 it would have been the biggest fight in boxing and the best win of his career. he did not want it. why did he want the fight when cotto was unknown and had just won a title but not when he was super popular and would have made him a billion dollars more? even if cotto did duck him at 140. so? floyd still ducked cotto when it was 100 times a better fight.

if margarito was about money as you claim why didnt he take the 7 million he was offered??? instead he went for the 3 million to fight sharmba and 5 million against judah. oh maybe those fights gave him more status??? fighting a shot sharmba and judah coming off a loss to a bum=give me that status!!! its not like margarito brought a mexican fanbase that floyd always catered to....oh wait.

then there is prime pac who he stalled for 5 years. pac eventually called his bluff about testing and he refused to fight unless pac took a 40 million flat offer which was ridiculous seeing as their last 3 fights they had done the exact same ppv numbers. why floyd should have got a 90-10 split i have no idea. if you want to blame pac for not calling his bluff 2 years earlier fine but the next 3 are squarely on his shoulders.

3 clear ducks. that would have improved his resume by leaps and bounds to have those 3 fights on his resume. it would have gone from meh to pretty darn good. not leonard good but a solid resume. right now he has roy jones resume without toney, hopkins and tarver.

bonus duck: winky wright. called him out and pretended he wanted to move up and fight him. arum reached a deal for the fight and floyd suddenly changed his demands. you see the pattern! talk is cheap floyd. 4 great fights he could have had if he just put pen to paper instead of coming up with excuses, retiring, etc...

[DJ Enerate]

Just so we are all on the same page in this thread, a quick recap.

1) You have two posters trying to sell how what Floyd did in the ring is somehow diminished since, according to the two posters, Floyd never faced and beat another ATG in their prime.

2) When given the names of men who fit the description of ATGs, they deny that those men are ATGs.

3) When presented with two general consensus ATGs who ALSO never faced other prime ATGs (Dempsey and Louis) they seem to be at a loss to reconcile that fact with what they are contending about Mayweather.

I think my work is done here.

2 more hypocrites bite the dust.

1. No one is diminishing Floyd's record. He never beat a great fighter in their prime which is fact and not made up like your claim Hatton and Corrales fit the description of ATG's. You however are over inflating Floyd's opponents to try and elevate him as a candidate for GOAT which is embarrassing.

2. Well tell us why these men fit the description of ATG's ? I'm still waiting for your case to be made ?

3. Dempsey is an ATG but it is not the general consensus among boxing history buffs that Dempsey is a top tier ATG. The reason why he's not generally considered top tier is because he doesn't have the resume to belong there. Including that important win over another ATG in their prime. Start a thread in the history section with the title "I's Jack Dempsey considered a top tier ATG" and see what happens ? I will do it for you if you like.

4. Your work is not done until you lay your case for Hatton and Corrales being ATG's ? You should start a thread on that subject as well. Would be hilarious.

The only thing biting the dust is your credibility.

[Johnny2x2x]

And there are valid explanations as to why a fight didn't take place sooner or at all in pretty much every case except that of Paul Williams- and even that has the element of both being Haymon fighters to kinda mitigate the duck.

Those who say Cotto should have happened sooner discount that Floyd would have fought him earlier if not for Arum and also pay no attention to Cotto's handlers at the time who thought Miguel was "too green" for Floyd.

Those who say Mosley should have happened sooner discount the fact that Floyd actively called for the fight earlier and that it was Shane that had "a toothache" he needed to take care of first.

Margarito was about money and only money- more was available against other guys and more status was available with wins against those others as well.

And it goes on and on. There is always a logical reason in every case, some not very flattering to those Floyd supposedly ducked (Kostya Tszyu comes to mind).

Cotto had to leave Arum to fight Mayweather, and when he did they made a fight immediately.

Tszyu was never an option as HBO didn't want it, then Hatton crushed Tszyu so Mayweather fought him.

Williams might have eventually gotten the fight had he just kept winning and not had his accident. Margarito too, if he had kept winning he would have gotten the Mayweather fight, but he started to lose and eliminated himself from consideration. That's the thing, Mayweather was the cash cow the last decade, all fighters had to do to get a fight with him was to keep winning, if they didn't do that they have no one to blame but themselves.

[The Viper]

In terms of wins it's hard to rank Floyd greater than the likes of Barney Ross who sits around 15, or over say a Jimmy McLarnin or Tony Canzoneri who both sit just outside the top 20. I think McLarnin is only behind Greb in terms of beating multiple hof fighters with 11 on his resume. Historians don't overlook the fact Mclarnin beat Villa when he was shot and Labarba was apparently green so there's holes to be picked in some of those 11 wins. Toni Canzoneri has like 9 hof fighters on his resume. Floyd's resume is worthy of being in the 25 to 30 range which is an incredible achievement considering how historical the sport is.

AGreed him and pac are top 30 ATG

[hugh grant]

Props. Didn't fight ATGs is the same thing as saying he wasn't born in the right era. Floyd fought everyone he needed to near to his weight in his era.

Floyd fighting atg is only a dream. Just fight the toughest available. So he didn't need to fight brook, sponce, Thurman, khan.
Didn't he have to fight outside backyard?
So Floyd only fought people in his weight class he needed to? Past greats fought people outside their weight class they didn't need to fight. Basically your admitting Floyd never challenged himself and the possibikities. The people in your weight class, historically might not be that good. So you've got to challenge yourself and perhaps fight bigger guys