Where do you rate Floyd in ATG p4p list?

[Johnny2x2x]

He's in the conversation for the most skilful.
Margarito fought Santos in 2004 at light-middle. I'm talking about the 2007-2008 welterweight margarito.
It looked to me like he chose baldomir ahead of margarito when the same purse was on offer.
Williams blitzed quintana in 1 round in the rematch. He would have given Floyd all he could handle.
I'll give u the tszyu situation. Probably missed each other by a year or two.

Stop with the 26 world champions nonsense. Only in boxing do u have 4 or 5 or 6 people claiming to be world champion. Lineal champs or no.1 in the division is all that matters.
Gatti and Judah and anyone else who was a former "titlist" doesn't count.
I'm a huge Floyd fan, loved watching him in the ring but I can't stand the TBE idiots

26 champions is very relevant when you look at the fact that all or almost all of them were #1 or #2 in their weight class. Once again, go compare that to past all time greats. Those guys simply didn't fight top quality like that virtually every fight. People want to only remember 4 or 5 fights for some of the greats when they all fought total bums right in the middle of their runs. Mayweather didn't take on buns mid career like so many others. In fact, after his 17th fight he doesn't have a single "bum" on his card and that includes Berto who was a much better fighter than a ton of guys on Duran's, Hearn's, SRL's, and SRR's cards when they were prime. McGregor is the only bum he fought after his 16th fight.

When you're always fighting a top 3 guy in that weight you are taking risks, boxing is about matchups and you're bound to find the wrong match up when you are fighting champions. And in fact Floyd did this twice with Castillo and Madaina, both great fighters who were bad match ups for Floyd. He beat them closely and then gave immediate rematches to them. That is legendary and he deserves more credit.

[DJ Enerate]

Have it myself. He's like the bogeyman. Did he even exist?

Well apparently Whitey made up the legend of Harry Greb so that they had a white guy to compete for the title as GOAT with Robinson, Armstrong and Langford.

[DeadLikeMe]

No fighter whose career started after 1990 ranks where Floyd falls. You have to go back to Duran and SRL to find someone in the same vicinity.

[Mexican_Puppet]

TOP 15.

No doubt about that...

[JK1700]

He's in the conversation for the most skilful.
Margarito fought Santos in 2004 at light-middle. I'm talking about the 2007-2008 welterweight margarito.
It looked to me like he chose baldomir ahead of margarito when the same purse was on offer.
Williams blitzed quintana in 1 round in the rematch. He would have given Floyd all he could handle.
I'll give u the tszyu situation. Probably missed each other by a year or two.

Stop with the 26 world champions nonsense. Only in boxing do u have 4 or 5 or 6 people claiming to be world champion. Lineal champs or no.1 in the division is all that matters.
Gatti and Judah and anyone else who was a former "titlist" doesn't count.
I'm a huge Floyd fan, loved watching him in the ring but I can't stand the TBE idiots

There's really no debate regarding skills, there's nobody who had as many aspects to their game or who was as smart. Sugar Ray Robinson maybe, but his defense wasn't on Floyd's level. Bumgarito was a flat-footed nobody and no one wanted to see Floyd fight him, this is revisionist history. They wanted to see him fight DLH and Hatton which he did. In 2006 nobody in the world knew who Bumgarito was, I think he was ranked like 5 or 6 at Welterweight and Baldomir was ranked #1 and had went 8+ years without a loss, so you're delusional if you think it would've been better for him to fight a barely ranked no-name instead of the lineal undisputed champion. Then he got killed by Mosley so Floyd fought Mosley. If he beat Mosley or Cotto he still could've got the fight but he got his ass kicked both times.

Williams could've got the Floyd fight if not for his accident. He was scheduled to fight Canelo in 2012 before Canelo fought Floyd so he would've got the fight if he won but unfortunately the accident happened. Even still though, I liked Paul and he was an entertaining fighter to watch, but he CLEARLY got outboxed by Lara who got beat by Canelo so do you really think he would've been a challenge for Floyd? He was a SITTING DUCK for punches. It would've been a mismatch.

Ok then let's go with the lineal champs then. Floyd beat the lineal #1 guy at 130, 135, 140, 147 and Canelo's been the best guy at 154 for the last several years and he beat him too. Even if you're gonna say Gatti wasn't #1 at 140 he beat Hatton who was #1 at 140. Has there ever been another guy in boxing history who beat the #1 ranked fighter in 5 different divisions? Sure there's lots of titlists but what Floyd has done is unmatched in boxing history. Whether you think he's TBE or not there's no doubt he should be in the conversation after all he's done. If we're just talking skills I gotta put him #1, sorry, gotta do it. Can't think of anyone better.

[harry-greb]

There's really no debate regarding skills, there's nobody who had as many aspects to their game or who was as smart. Sugar Ray Robinson maybe, but his defense wasn't on Floyd's level. Bumgarito was a flat-footed nobody and no one wanted to see Floyd fight him, this is revisionist history. They wanted to see him fight DLH and Hatton which he did. In 2006 nobody in the world knew who Bumgarito was, I think he was ranked like 5 or 6 at Welterweight and Baldomir was ranked #1 and had went 8+ years without a loss, so you're delusional if you think it would've been better for him to fight a barely ranked no-name instead of the lineal undisputed champion. Then he got killed by Mosley so Floyd fought Mosley. If he beat Mosley or Cotto he still could've got the fight but he got his ass kicked both times.

Williams could've got the Floyd fight if not for his accident. He was scheduled to fight Canelo in 2012 before Canelo fought Floyd so he would've got the fight if he won but unfortunately the accident happened. Even still though, I liked Paul and he was an entertaining fighter to watch, but he CLEARLY got outboxed by Lara who got beat by Canelo so do you really think he would've been a challenge for Floyd? He was a SITTING DUCK for punches. It would've been a mismatch.

Ok then let's go with the lineal champs then. Floyd beat the lineal #1 guy at 130, 135, 140, 147 and Canelo's been the best guy at 154 for the last several years and he beat him too. Even if you're gonna say Gatti wasn't #1 at 140 he beat Hatton who was #1 at 140. Has there ever been another guy in boxing history who beat the #1 ranked fighter in 5 different divisions? Sure there's lots of titlists but what Floyd has done is unmatched in boxing history. Whether you think he's TBE or not there's no doubt he should be in the conversation after all he's done. If we're just talking skills I gotta put him #1, sorry, gotta do it. Can't think of anyone better.

Of course there's a debate regarding skills. The sugar man was an offensive machine so he was always going to get hit more than Floyd.
Willie pep, ezzard Charles, Charley burley, Archie Moore, Benny Leonard,locche, ali, louis, Duran, leonard , sweet pea, Roy Jones, James Toney, ricardo lopez, rigendeaux, are all in with a shout for most skillful. No doubt Floyd belongs in there but to call him the most skillful fighter ever, without debate is pushing it.

You're dead wrong about margarito.
In the 2004 ring magazine end of year rankings he was ranked no.1. Corey spinks was champion.
In 2005, margarito was no. 1, Judah was champ. Now I know Floyd wasn't at welterweight in 04 and 05 but I'm illustrating that margarito was far from a nobody.
Then in 2006 when Floyd dethroned baldomir, margarito was no. 1 contender.
So for three straight years margarito was no.1 ranked contender, the three welterweight champions didn't fight him.

Instead of taking 19 months off, he could have fought margarito, cotto, mosley, williams. Or 3 out of those 4. Williams was available in 200limit

On to the lineals.
130, you're right

135, you're right

140 I was gonna go on the attack about gatti but I looked at the ring ratings for the end of 2004 and, **** me, gatti is there at number 1 with tszyu as champ. I'm on the ropes here. He might not have been no.1 by the time they met in june but that's nit picking. Would have loved to see him fight hatton for the 140 lineal title instead of 147

147 you cud split his welterweight career in two. Pre and post his first retirement.
Still think there were 1 or 2 misses in his first run but he won the lineal title from baldomir
Second run is good but mosley and pacquiao were a little too late even though his accountant wud disagree.

154 shudda fought canelo at the division limit. Canelo cudda weighed 200lbs and Floyd wudda beat him so that's a small minus for him.

When there were only 8 divisions, sugar ray Robinson fought and beat lightweight champ Sammy angott twice.
He cleaned out welterweight three times over.
He won the middleweight title 5 times
And unbelievably was beating light-heavyweight champ joey maxim until heat exhaustion got the better of him.
Stand up for the sugar man!!!

I'm ****in exhausted after that

[harry-greb]

Well apparently Whitey made up the legend of Harry Greb so that they had a white guy to compete for the title as GOAT with Robinson, Armstrong and Langford.

They all check under their beds at night for harry greb

[harry-greb]

[QUOTE=Johnny2x2x;18032965]26 champions is very relevant when you look at the fact that all or almost all of them were #1 or #2 in their weight class. Once again, go compare that to past all time greats. Those guys simply didn't fight top quality like that virtually every fight. People want to only remember 4 or 5 fights for some of the greats when they all fought total bums right in the middle of their runs. Mayweather didn't take on buns mid career like so many others. In fact, after his 17th fight he doesn't have a single "bum" on his card and that includes Berto who was a much better fighter than a ton of guys on Duran's, Hearn's, SRL's, and SRR's cards when they were prime. McGregor is the only bum he fought after his 16th fight.

When you're always fighting a top 3 guy in that weight you are taking risks, boxing is about matchups and you're bound to find the wrong match up when you are fighting champions. And in fact Floyd did this twice with Castillo and Madaina, both great fighters who were bad match ups for Floyd. He beat them closely and then gave immediate rematches to them. That is legendary and he deserves more credit.[/QFloyd is a great
Henry Brussels.
Also he's only fought twice a year so he shouldn't have a bum on his record.
Talent pool has greatly diminished in this era
Castillo and maidana are not great fighters. Very good, tough as nails fighters.
Floyd gets a lot of credit for jumping straight back in there with them

Floyd is a great fighter

[JK1700]

Of course there's a debate regarding skills. The sugar man was an offensive machine so he was always going to get hit more than Floyd.
Willie pep, ezzard Charles, Charley burley, Archie Moore, Benny Leonard,locche, ali, louis, Duran, leonard , sweet pea, Roy Jones, James Toney, ricardo lopez, rigendeaux, are all in with a shout for most skillful. No doubt Floyd belongs in there but to call him the most skillful fighter ever, without debate is pushing it.

You're dead wrong about margarito.
In the 2004 ring magazine end of year rankings he was ranked no.1. Corey spinks was champion.
In 2005, margarito was no. 1, Judah was champ. Now I know Floyd wasn't at welterweight in 04 and 05 but I'm illustrating that margarito was far from a nobody.
Then in 2006 when Floyd dethroned baldomir, margarito was no. 1 contender.
So for three straight years margarito was no.1 ranked contender, the three welterweight champions didn't fight him.

Instead of taking 19 months off, he could have fought margarito, cotto, mosley, williams. Or 3 out of those 4. Williams was available in 200limit

On to the lineals.
130, you're right

135, you're right

140 I was gonna go on the attack about gatti but I looked at the ring ratings for the end of 2004 and, **** me, gatti is there at number 1 with tszyu as champ. I'm on the ropes here. He might not have been no.1 by the time they met in june but that's nit picking. Would have loved to see him fight hatton for the 140 lineal title instead of 147

147 you cud split his welterweight career in two. Pre and post his first retirement.
Still think there were 1 or 2 misses in his first run but he won the lineal title from baldomir
Second run is good but mosley and pacquiao were a little too late even though his accountant wud disagree.

154 shudda fought canelo at the division limit. Canelo cudda weighed 200lbs and Floyd wudda beat him so that's a small minus for him.

When there were only 8 divisions, sugar ray Robinson fought and beat lightweight champ Sammy angott twice.
He cleaned out welterweight three times over.
He won the middleweight title 5 times
And unbelievably was beating light-heavyweight champ joey maxim until heat exhaustion got the better of him.
Stand up for the sugar man!!!

I'm ****in exhausted after that

All of those guys are legends and being a fan of the sport first I love guys like Sugar Ray Robinson, Ali, Leonard, Hagler, Lopez, Whitaker, Roy, I could go on and on and name even more. I still watch those guys regularly now because I really enjoyed seeing them. It's no disrespect to any of them all i'm saying is when I watch Floyd, I feel like he has the most tools and is the most efficient/complete boxer in history. SRR was legendary but didn't have Floyd's defense, same with Leonard and Roy. Meanwhile Whitaker had an amazing defense but didn't have Floyd's offense. There have been great complete fighters before, but there's never been someone who could adjust and adapt to any style and dominate them. Floyd has the best plus-minus of anyone in boxing history and while many legends came before him, none of them were able to dominate the competiton like he did. He's beat almost 30 world champs across 20 years of boxing. That along with him being the most well-rounded boxer ever makes him the GOAT to me. If you're talking legacy that's totally different but skill-wise I can't find anyone who was better.

Ok so Margarito was once considered a good WW, but let's be real NOBODY had heard of him at the time so it made zero sense for Floyd to fight him. Maybe they didn't want to fight him because they suspected he was loading his gloves, which was smart. I wouldn't have fought him either if I knew that, would you? Bottom line he had chances to fight Floyd even after the gloves scandal, but instead he lost every round to Cotto and got stopped. Not to mention Mosley beating him half to death. He blew his chance. All these guys could've fought him, they just had to keep winning. Once you lose, it kills momentum & the fight stops making sense.

As I posted earlier in this thread, Floyd tried to fight Cotto in 2005 and 2006, Bob Arum and Cotto's own trainer said he wasn't ready. He also tried to fight Shane in 1999 and 2006 and Mosley ducked him both times saying he "would rather take a vacation". It's the same deal with Pacquiao. Bob shielded these guys from Floyd because he didn't want his new cash cows to get beat up by a guy who had just said "**** you" and left him. Williams? There was no demand for that fight besides a few super-hardcore fans but he got beat by Martinez and Lara which killed the potential interest. Even then he had a chance to get the fight because he was scheduled to fight Canelo in September 2012 but unfortunately missed his chance due to his accident. If he beat Canelo in 2012 he would've fought Floyd in 2013. It's even the same deal with Hatton, Floyd wanted to fight him after the Tszyu fight and they declined saying they wanted more time. The fight being at 147 actually helped Ricky because he struggled with the weight. Plus the fight got way bigger in those 2 years. There's really no one else, he fought everyone he should have.

I really can't fault his resume at 147 or 154. At 147 he fought all the top guys that weren't being held back by Bob Arum. Then at 154 he fought Oscar De La Hoya (an ATG coming off an impressive win). Miguel Cotto at his most comfortable weight after 3 impressive knockout wins in a row. Then Canelo who hasn't lost since and is probably going to be the future of boxing. Certainly for Mexico and he'll probably be the closest thing we have to a PPV king too. Yeah there's a couple of guys he could've fought but there was no truly great fighter who we wanted to see him fight who he didn't, he beat all of them. It's not like Sugar Ray Leonard, I love the guy but he didn't take on Aaron Pryor or give Hagler an immediate rematch of maybe THE most controversial fight/decision ever, and he's still an ATG.

I respect your post and i'm a huge fan of SRR, got his books, seen all the documentaries etc, but everything evolves and I feel like Floyd has surpassed him as the greatest of all time. Of course you can't compare the amount of fights, and he may have a better "legacy" and be viewed more favorably, but if we're just watching both of them and saying who was better in terms of skills and total attributes across the board, I gotta say Floyd was better. Every aspect of his game was a 9 or 10, and the best IQ/conditioning too. I'm tired after that too

[MurkaMan]

Floyd was the freshest 37 year old in the history of boxing. I'm just saying that if a come forward fighter like maidana and Castillo cud give him hell what cud a murderous punching sugar ray Robinson do???
The fonz was slick and i m no fonzy

Well Im just saying, that come forward fighters like Chino and Castillo have been dominated by Floyd forever. Idgaf how fresh he was against Chino he had aged. Now I will put the Floyd who faced Canelo at 37, months prior, and he would TKO SRR. Too strong, and aggressive.

And When Floyd fought Castillio he had a bum shoulder from the second round. That isnt an excuse he made up after the fight. Thats something he complained about from the second round. Even the Floyd from the rematch would humiliate SRR. SRR is from the 60's, he's not giving Floyd a tough fight.

But of course if SRR had problems with Lomatta, who is a terrible fighter, its no way he could challenge Floyd.

Even the Floyd from the Chino and Castillio fights, on his worst night, would be too much for SRR.