Comments Thread For: Rigondeaux's Coach Warns: Lomachenko is Not at This P4P Level!

[TexasCowBoy]

Greedyllermo Boringdeaux will let his fear use greed as an excuse to back out of this possible fight vs Chenko

[uniquehump]

Ward vs. Kov... No I didn't like it one bit. Was intriguing, nip and tuck action for 7 rounds, but not what it could have been because both looked tired from the 4th round. Kovalev looks shot, stamina wise, and Ward looked like he packed on too much muscle, struggled to make weight, and was gassing as well. Then a corrupt ref stopped it right when it was getting really interesting. I looked forward to that fight for months and it could not have gone any worse. I wanted to see an improved Kovalev, I didnt. I didnt even see an improved Ward. I wanted to see the controversy cleared up, instead I got the opposite. I wanted a definitive ending, got the opposite. I wanted to see how the fight would go without a corrupt referee, got the opposite.

Klitschko-Joshua... the one big fight all year that both lived up to the billing, and did not have a corrupt referee. However, the fight was stopped on missed punches at the most crucial, historical moment when the fight could have gone from the fight of the year to an actual all time great historical fight. That was also very disappointing. That's boxing's problem, even when it mostly delivers, it still finds a way to leave a bitter taste because it's just such a consistently corrupt or incompetently run sport. A good baseball game that is decided by an umpire error is still going to live a bitter taste. Just because it happens constantly in boxing, and rarely in baseball, doesn't mean you just magically accept it in boxing. At least I dont.

GGG - Jacobs... had the IBF weigh in problem that created an uneven playing field and a huge weight disparity, causing the more aggressive boxer not to be as aggressive as normal, which caused the fight to never break out like it should have. That should have been a classic fight, instead it was a good, not great, fight. Im glad the fight happened but did it live up to what it should have? No, and again, the incompetence of those running boxing is the reason why. NOW the IBF figured it out and got rid of that dumb rule for unifications, but not before ruining a potential great fight because they were reactive, not proactive.

Again, these are just facts. Maybe you overlook all this BS, but that doesn't change the fact I am correct in pointing out that it keeps happening in almost every big fight in one way or another. Some have lower standards and will overlook all that crap, but it is still messing up many of these potentially great fights, and that's bad for boxing.

Degale - Jack... that was a good fight between two B+ fighters, not something I had much emotional investment in. Then Jack got robbed which always leaves a bitter taste. See? It's sad that the best examples you can find for the entire year are still by and large tainted with corruption and incompetence in almost every case.

Spence - Brook... should have happened before Brook fought GGG. He looked good for a few rounds then predictably gassed from coming back down in weight, and his face fell apart as well. The two things that people were worried about after the GGG fight, having to come back to 147 and Brook's eye, both played a huge role in the fight in exactly the ways people were worried about. Additionally, before Brook fatigued and started to take a sustained beating, Spence never wobbled him, and he never wobbled Spence. Just like Thurman-DSG, lots of bombs were thrown, but few landed flush, and in general the fighters chins were better than their power was, so there was not a lot of back and forth momentum swings, or really anything dramatic happening in the fight besides two strong, terminator type fighters unloading on each other and missing a fair amount.

Maybe that drama would have come later in the fight, once the boxers were fatigued, just like maybe the drama would have come later in Kovalev-Ward as both their punch resistance declined with fatigue, but fans were robbed of seeing that in Kovalev-Ward by the ref, and fans were robbed of seeing those dramatic swings in Spence-Brook by Brook fatiguing after 4 rounds (also a factor in Kovalev-Ward) and his eye breaking down shortly after.

Thurman - Garcia... I just touched on that, but yeah that was a solid action fight, but no knockdowns, and not even a ton of sustained action the second half of the fight once Thurman realized Garcia could take his punch and he didn't like getting hit by Garcia's. Surprisingly Garcia almost looked the stronger man in that fight, like maybe Thurman's size at welterweight was overhyped the same way GGG's size at middleweight was, so Thurman just potshotted and outboxed Garcia for a lot of that fight. Solid fight, but little drama, and not the war people had predicted, not the knockout people had predicted.

Frampton - Santa Cruz... the first fight was my fight of the year, but the rematch was a snoozer. Frampton had no adjustments the entire rematch. Also because both of them ducked Rigondeaux so blatantly, it feels both are just chasing money fights, and that neither is aiming to be the best, so there is little investment in it. It's like an action filled game between B-league soccer teams full of players who have chosen to play B-league on purpose because they dont want the full time commitment of playing in the A-league, or whatever their reason is. Yes it's a fun game, but if none of them are even trying to be the best, and they're just happy to collect paychecks in the B-league, then what are the stakes, really? At this point those fights, which again had zero knockdowns in 24 rounds, are feeling more like slightly higher level, but less action filled, versions of Mike Alvarado vs Brandon Rios, or Orlando Salido vs Rocky Martinez. Except those both had even more action, plus I'm not convinced that Orlando Salido, anyway, wouldn't have beaten both Santa Cruz and Frampton at 126 (assuming he could make it). We've seen guys who could take Leo's punches and keep coming give him problems before, for as long as they could last... well, Salido is bigger than any of those guys, and punches harder than any of those guys that Al put Santa Cruz in the ring with...

That's the problem. I'm not even sure those guys at true 126 pounders, but they moved up to avoid Rigondeaux at 122 I guess, yet because they're not true 126's, they're being strategically kept away from all the actual top guys who were there (Lomachenko when he was there, Mikey when he was there although that might have been a little before they moved up, even Walters and Gary Russell Jr. both would probably give those guys hell). So what am I really watching? I feel like I'm watching B+, maybe A- on Santa Cruz's best day, 122 pounders, who are probably more like B- 126 pounders, being kept away from all the A-level boxers out there, and put in action wars instead, except they're all advised by Haymon and so respectful of each other, and clearly not interested in truly going to war to be the best in some cases, that their action fights aren't even necessarily that heated. They are action fights without animosity, and "top level fights" without top level fighters, at least not at 126.

So it's kind of an illusion. Maybe the first fight at 126 between Santa Cruz and Frampton, with both of them coming off big wins, the illusion was sort of effective, plus the fight was competitive enough that overall it was a success, but as time has passed, and these guys became more inactive and more disconnected from all the top fighters around their weight classes, the rivalry became much less interesting to me, culminating in a one-sided rematch.

So there you go. You can say I'm just being negative, but I think I made fair points, no? You posted what were supposed to be the best fights of this year, but most of them involve corruption or incompetent referees or belt organizations or commissions, and very few of them were actually great fights.

I mean you posted 7 supposedly top fights from this year, but only two ended in knockouts (not counting the low blows by Ward), and one of those was stopped on missed punches, and the other was not a real KO, it was a weight drained fighter quitting from fatigue and an eye injury. So in reality of the 7 best fights of the year according to you, not one ended in a legitimate KO, and I believe only three had true knockdowns in them (not counting Brook taking knees. Did he ever get truly knocked down though? I forget. If he did, then that's four, but again he was fatigued much more than he was rocked at any point), and one was just a quick flash knockdown by GGG.

The other happened in Jack-Degale, and oh I forgot that's another ****ed up uneven playing field fight in my opinion. I don't think that fight had VADA! So to me that fight was one boxer on massive PEDs, using the latest weight bullying techniques as well, walking down and through the better boxer. So instead of seeing the boxing match on an even playing field to see who was truly better, we saw one boxer probably cheat to put a beating on the other in the ring, but then the boxer who had been cheated in the actual fight ended up cheating the other on the scorecards, because he's a future UK star they want to protect in a growing market to make money off of.

So that's another fight where you try to hold it up as an example of what's good about boxing in 2017, when in reality it's actually an example of multiple things that are not only wrong, broken, and corrupt in boxing in 2017, but extremely dangerous. On skills alone that fight should never have been dangerous for Degale, and in fact it wasn't even that much of a legacy fight or important fight outside of it being a unification fight (but in a weak division), but due strictly in my opinion to what APPEARED to ME, subjectively and allegedly, to be PEDs and weight bullying, Degale took the beating of his career, in a sustained fashion.

So how is that an example of something good? Jack used to be a C-level boxer, now he's walking through every punch Degale lands and throwing GGG-like bombs to his body, all after beginning to work with Memo Heredia... Come on. Let's be real.

So that's my opinion on all those fights. I respect your opinion, and you can disagree if you want, but I'm just bringing up facts, and I think I made very reasonable points.

I think you mistook my simple question for an argument against you opinion. I just wanted to know if you liked those fights or not. I don't know if you are used to arguing back and forth with other posters or not. I respect everyone's opinion as long as it doesn't involve race.

Anyways, those are some of the top fights on paper of 2017. Yes, all of those fights had something negative to bring them down a bit, but what fights don't? 95% of the fights ends with the loser saying that they had an injury, was sick, they trained differently, they came up in weight, they went down in weight, they changed their diet, there was too many distractions in their training camp, su****ion of Peds use, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention refs and judges making judgement calls, which every ref calls a fight differently and every judge scores it differently. There's been controversy in this sport since it began and that will never change. I was upset with the Ward vs. Kov fight too. I'm a Ward fan, but I wanted to see if he could stop him or if Kov could weather the storm and knock him out. I didn't get that, but as a fan of the sport, I still loved it. Refs have to protect the fighters and sometimes they may jump in too quick because they are in the ring and we are watching it on tv. Some do this because its by nature. But i hate to be the ref who let a boxer take too much punishment with the many deaths in the ring and the CTE that former boxers and football players are now being diagnosed with. Yes, that was a controversial stoppage, just like McGregor and Mayweather and maybe Spence and Brook, but Ali vs. Foreman could be considered controversial too because the fight was never stopped. Ali was allowed to take punishment for several rounds and it is considered the smartest tactic in the history of the sport, however; he possibly suffered brain damage from that fight.

I think in order to make this sport better, they need to do something like the Super 6 Tournament all the time. Call it the Sweet 16 and have several major fights every 3 months or have a different fight ever 2 weeks. Fighters would not be able to avoid each other and they will fight 3 or 4 times a year. I think that's what I don't like about boxing the most. Once the fighters get a little recognition, they only fight once or maybe twice a year. I really think that there should be a salary cap for these fights based on rankings. I'm a Mayweather fan and don't know anything about McGregor, but don't think neither should had made the type of money that they made. And Championship belts should mean something. That fight was not for any belt and they earned more in that fight than all the champions in the entire sport combined in 2017. Champions should earn more than any challenger, regardless of fan base. This is why Mayweather didn't care much about belts and Canelo gave away his belt. If there is more money attached to a belt and even more if you have multiple belts, then fighters would be trying to fight the best. Right now, Crawford should be the highest paid in the sport because he won all of the belts. He should be earning the maximum because he is one of the best and then because he has all the belts, there should be bonus earnings. I know I'm rambling, but I just think until those things I described up above are changed, we still will have those A-Side B-Side debates and fighters being off for several months getting fat and out of shape. Those other controversy i don't think will ever change, so the focus needs to be on what can be changed to make it better. Also, having 5 judges instead of 3. One for each side of the ring and one watching on a silent monitor.

Thanks for your reply!!

[j.razor]

Loma is nice but not top ten P4P at all with a ten fight record unless he was to fight & beat ten Champions in a row then you might have a debate.

[BillyBoxing]

Walter's suks! You give him wayy to much credit. He a quilter. He lost on the scales because he's lazy and then he quit in the ring.

Leo is better than Russell. So is Frampton IMO. But we will NEVER know because he fights 1 time and then he retires evey year.

Walters earned his rep Killing nonito, Just like rigo lol

[hateinyaeyes32]

I can't wait to hear why lomachenko is still in p4p conversation after he's 9-2. The mouth breathers will find a way to keep him in the discussion.

[Shadoww702]

Walters earned his rep Killing nonito, Just like rigo lol

Very tru...

[Shadoww702]

I can't wait to hear why lomachenko is still in p4p conversation after he's 9-2. The mouth breathers will find a way to keep him in the discussion.

SHT!!!! If GGG loses and then his fans all flock to Lomachenko as expected and he then loses???? OHHH SHT!!!!! What band wagon do they jump on then???

P acTards became GGGTards who became KOVTards then back to GGGTards soon to be LomaTards...Then what???





To be a TARD for infinity

[Shadoww702]

Ward vs. Kov... No I didn't like it one bit. Was intriguing, nip and tuck action for 7 rounds, but not what it could have been because both looked tired from the 4th round. Kovalev looks shot, stamina wise, and Ward looked like he packed on too much muscle, struggled to make weight, and was gassing as well. Then a corrupt ref stopped it right when it was getting really interesting. I looked forward to that fight for months and it could not have gone any worse. I wanted to see an improved Kovalev, I didnt. I didnt even see an improved Ward. I wanted to see the controversy cleared up, instead I got the opposite. I wanted a definitive ending, got the opposite. I wanted to see how the fight would go without a corrupt referee, got the opposite.

Klitschko-Joshua... the one big fight all year that both lived up to the billing, and did not have a corrupt referee. However, the fight was stopped on missed punches at the most crucial, historical moment when the fight could have gone from the fight of the year to an actual all time great historical fight. That was also very disappointing. That's boxing's problem, even when it mostly delivers, it still finds a way to leave a bitter taste because it's just such a consistently corrupt or incompetently run sport. A good baseball game that is decided by an umpire error is still going to live a bitter taste. Just because it happens constantly in boxing, and rarely in baseball, doesn't mean you just magically accept it in boxing. At least I dont.

GGG - Jacobs... had the IBF weigh in problem that created an uneven playing field and a huge weight disparity, causing the more aggressive boxer not to be as aggressive as normal, which caused the fight to never break out like it should have. That should have been a classic fight, instead it was a good, not great, fight. Im glad the fight happened but did it live up to what it should have? No, and again, the incompetence of those running boxing is the reason why. NOW the IBF figured it out and got rid of that dumb rule for unifications, but not before ruining a potential great fight because they were reactive, not proactive.

Again, these are just facts. Maybe you overlook all this BS, but that doesn't change the fact I am correct in pointing out that it keeps happening in almost every big fight in one way or another. Some have lower standards and will overlook all that crap, but it is still messing up many of these potentially great fights, and that's bad for boxing.

Degale - Jack... that was a good fight between two B+ fighters, not something I had much emotional investment in. Then Jack got robbed which always leaves a bitter taste. See? It's sad that the best examples you can find for the entire year are still by and large tainted with corruption and incompetence in almost every case.

Spence - Brook... should have happened before Brook fought GGG. He looked good for a few rounds then predictably gassed from coming back down in weight, and his face fell apart as well. The two things that people were worried about after the GGG fight, having to come back to 147 and Brook's eye, both played a huge role in the fight in exactly the ways people were worried about. Additionally, before Brook fatigued and started to take a sustained beating, Spence never wobbled him, and he never wobbled Spence. Just like Thurman-DSG, lots of bombs were thrown, but few landed flush, and in general the fighters chins were better than their power was, so there was not a lot of back and forth momentum swings, or really anything dramatic happening in the fight besides two strong, terminator type fighters unloading on each other and missing a fair amount.

Maybe that drama would have come later in the fight, once the boxers were fatigued, just like maybe the drama would have come later in Kovalev-Ward as both their punch resistance declined with fatigue, but fans were robbed of seeing that in Kovalev-Ward by the ref, and fans were robbed of seeing those dramatic swings in Spence-Brook by Brook fatiguing after 4 rounds (also a factor in Kovalev-Ward) and his eye breaking down shortly after.

Thurman - Garcia... I just touched on that, but yeah that was a solid action fight, but no knockdowns, and not even a ton of sustained action the second half of the fight once Thurman realized Garcia could take his punch and he didn't like getting hit by Garcia's. Surprisingly Garcia almost looked the stronger man in that fight, like maybe Thurman's size at welterweight was overhyped the same way GGG's size at middleweight was, so Thurman just potshotted and outboxed Garcia for a lot of that fight. Solid fight, but little drama, and not the war people had predicted, not the knockout people had predicted.

Frampton - Santa Cruz... the first fight was my fight of the year, but the rematch was a snoozer. Frampton had no adjustments the entire rematch. Also because both of them ducked Rigondeaux so blatantly, it feels both are just chasing money fights, and that neither is aiming to be the best, so there is little investment in it. It's like an action filled game between B-league soccer teams full of players who have chosen to play B-league on purpose because they dont want the full time commitment of playing in the A-league, or whatever their reason is. Yes it's a fun game, but if none of them are even trying to be the best, and they're just happy to collect paychecks in the B-league, then what are the stakes, really? At this point those fights, which again had zero knockdowns in 24 rounds, are feeling more like slightly higher level, but less action filled, versions of Mike Alvarado vs Brandon Rios, or Orlando Salido vs Rocky Martinez. Except those both had even more action, plus I'm not convinced that Orlando Salido, anyway, wouldn't have beaten both Santa Cruz and Frampton at 126 (assuming he could make it). We've seen guys who could take Leo's punches and keep coming give him problems before, for as long as they could last... well, Salido is bigger than any of those guys, and punches harder than any of those guys that Al put Santa Cruz in the ring with...

That's the problem. I'm not even sure those guys at true 126 pounders, but they moved up to avoid Rigondeaux at 122 I guess, yet because they're not true 126's, they're being strategically kept away from all the actual top guys who were there (Lomachenko when he was there, Mikey when he was there although that might have been a little before they moved up, even Walters and Gary Russell Jr. both would probably give those guys hell). So what am I really watching? I feel like I'm watching B+, maybe A- on Santa Cruz's best day, 122 pounders, who are probably more like B- 126 pounders, being kept away from all the A-level boxers out there, and put in action wars instead, except they're all advised by Haymon and so respectful of each other, and clearly not interested in truly going to war to be the best in some cases, that their action fights aren't even necessarily that heated. They are action fights without animosity, and "top level fights" without top level fighters, at least not at 126.

So it's kind of an illusion. Maybe the first fight at 126 between Santa Cruz and Frampton, with both of them coming off big wins, the illusion was sort of effective, plus the fight was competitive enough that overall it was a success, but as time has passed, and these guys became more inactive and more disconnected from all the top fighters around their weight classes, the rivalry became much less interesting to me, culminating in a one-sided rematch.

So there you go. You can say I'm just being negative, but I think I made fair points, no? You posted what were supposed to be the best fights of this year, but most of them involve corruption or incompetent referees or belt organizations or commissions, and very few of them were actually great fights.

I mean you posted 7 supposedly top fights from this year, but only two ended in knockouts (not counting the low blows by Ward), and one of those was stopped on missed punches, and the other was not a real KO, it was a weight drained fighter quitting from fatigue and an eye injury. So in reality of the 7 best fights of the year according to you, not one ended in a legitimate KO, and I believe only three had true knockdowns in them (not counting Brook taking knees. Did he ever get truly knocked down though? I forget. If he did, then that's four, but again he was fatigued much more than he was rocked at any point), and one was just a quick flash knockdown by GGG.

The other happened in Jack-Degale, and oh I forgot that's another ****ed up uneven playing field fight in my opinion. I don't think that fight had VADA! So to me that fight was one boxer on massive PEDs, using the latest weight bullying techniques as well, walking down and through the better boxer. So instead of seeing the boxing match on an even playing field to see who was truly better, we saw one boxer probably cheat to put a beating on the other in the ring, but then the boxer who had been cheated in the actual fight ended up cheating the other on the scorecards, because he's a future UK star they want to protect in a growing market to make money off of.

So that's another fight where you try to hold it up as an example of what's good about boxing in 2017, when in reality it's actually an example of multiple things that are not only wrong, broken, and corrupt in boxing in 2017, but extremely dangerous. On skills alone that fight should never have been dangerous for Degale, and in fact it wasn't even that much of a legacy fight or important fight outside of it being a unification fight (but in a weak division), but due strictly in my opinion to what APPEARED to ME, subjectively and allegedly, to be PEDs and weight bullying, Degale took the beating of his career, in a sustained fashion.

So how is that an example of something good? Jack used to be a C-level boxer, now he's walking through every punch Degale lands and throwing GGG-like bombs to his body, all after beginning to work with Memo Heredia... Come on. Let's be real.

So that's my opinion on all those fights. I respect your opinion, and you can disagree if you want, but I'm just bringing up facts, and I think I made very reasonable points.

You sure do Bi@tch a lot... You had some decent points but then you contradict yourself??? Or come off as a total hypocrite other times.

Do EVERYONE a favor??? Go AWAY!!! If you don't like boxing and such a negative nanny on her period. Then close your account, go back to watching Dancing With the Stars or Opera, or whatever you like. CLEARLY you don't like boxing. You just like to biatch about something.

[iniduoh]

Pedro Diaz speaks the truth. The guy couldn't even beat Salido but he's on some P4P list, absolutely unjustifiable.

[Shadoww702]

Ward vs. Kov... No I didn't like it one bit. Was intriguing, nip and tuck action for 7 rounds, but not what it could have been because both looked tired from the 4th round. Kovalev looks shot, stamina wise, and Ward looked like he packed on too much muscle, struggled to make weight, and was gassing as well. Then a corrupt ref stopped it right when it was getting really interesting. I looked forward to that fight for months and it could not have gone any worse. I wanted to see an improved Kovalev, I didnt. I didnt even see an improved Ward. I wanted to see the controversy cleared up, instead I got the opposite. I wanted a definitive ending, got the opposite. I wanted to see how the fight would go without a corrupt referee, got the opposite.

Klitschko-Joshua... the one big fight all year that both lived up to the billing, and did not have a corrupt referee. However, the fight was stopped on missed punches at the most crucial, historical moment when the fight could have gone from the fight of the year to an actual all time great historical fight. That was also very disappointing. That's boxing's problem, even when it mostly delivers, it still finds a way to leave a bitter taste because it's just such a consistently corrupt or incompetently run sport. A good baseball game that is decided by an umpire error is still going to live a bitter taste. Just because it happens constantly in boxing, and rarely in baseball, doesn't mean you just magically accept it in boxing. At least I dont.

GGG - Jacobs... had the IBF weigh in problem that created an uneven playing field and a huge weight disparity, causing the more aggressive boxer not to be as aggressive as normal, which caused the fight to never break out like it should have. That should have been a classic fight, instead it was a good, not great, fight. Im glad the fight happened but did it live up to what it should have? No, and again, the incompetence of those running boxing is the reason why. NOW the IBF figured it out and got rid of that dumb rule for unifications, but not before ruining a potential great fight because they were reactive, not proactive.

Again, these are just facts. Maybe you overlook all this BS, but that doesn't change the fact I am correct in pointing out that it keeps happening in almost every big fight in one way or another. Some have lower standards and will overlook all that crap, but it is still messing up many of these potentially great fights, and that's bad for boxing.

Degale - Jack... that was a good fight between two B+ fighters, not something I had much emotional investment in. Then Jack got robbed which always leaves a bitter taste. See? It's sad that the best examples you can find for the entire year are still by and large tainted with corruption and incompetence in almost every case.

Spence - Brook... should have happened before Brook fought GGG. He looked good for a few rounds then predictably gassed from coming back down in weight, and his face fell apart as well. The two things that people were worried about after the GGG fight, having to come back to 147 and Brook's eye, both played a huge role in the fight in exactly the ways people were worried about. Additionally, before Brook fatigued and started to take a sustained beating, Spence never wobbled him, and he never wobbled Spence. Just like Thurman-DSG, lots of bombs were thrown, but few landed flush, and in general the fighters chins were better than their power was, so there was not a lot of back and forth momentum swings, or really anything dramatic happening in the fight besides two strong, terminator type fighters unloading on each other and missing a fair amount.

Maybe that drama would have come later in the fight, once the boxers were fatigued, just like maybe the drama would have come later in Kovalev-Ward as both their punch resistance declined with fatigue, but fans were robbed of seeing that in Kovalev-Ward by the ref, and fans were robbed of seeing those dramatic swings in Spence-Brook by Brook fatiguing after 4 rounds (also a factor in Kovalev-Ward) and his eye breaking down shortly after.

Thurman - Garcia... I just touched on that, but yeah that was a solid action fight, but no knockdowns, and not even a ton of sustained action the second half of the fight once Thurman realized Garcia could take his punch and he didn't like getting hit by Garcia's. Surprisingly Garcia almost looked the stronger man in that fight, like maybe Thurman's size at welterweight was overhyped the same way GGG's size at middleweight was, so Thurman just potshotted and outboxed Garcia for a lot of that fight. Solid fight, but little drama, and not the war people had predicted, not the knockout people had predicted.

Frampton - Santa Cruz... the first fight was my fight of the year, but the rematch was a snoozer. Frampton had no adjustments the entire rematch. Also because both of them ducked Rigondeaux so blatantly, it feels both are just chasing money fights, and that neither is aiming to be the best, so there is little investment in it. It's like an action filled game between B-league soccer teams full of players who have chosen to play B-league on purpose because they dont want the full time commitment of playing in the A-league, or whatever their reason is. Yes it's a fun game, but if none of them are even trying to be the best, and they're just happy to collect paychecks in the B-league, then what are the stakes, really? At this point those fights, which again had zero knockdowns in 24 rounds, are feeling more like slightly higher level, but less action filled, versions of Mike Alvarado vs Brandon Rios, or Orlando Salido vs Rocky Martinez. Except those both had even more action, plus I'm not convinced that Orlando Salido, anyway, wouldn't have beaten both Santa Cruz and Frampton at 126 (assuming he could make it). We've seen guys who could take Leo's punches and keep coming give him problems before, for as long as they could last... well, Salido is bigger than any of those guys, and punches harder than any of those guys that Al put Santa Cruz in the ring with...

That's the problem. I'm not even sure those guys at true 126 pounders, but they moved up to avoid Rigondeaux at 122 I guess, yet because they're not true 126's, they're being strategically kept away from all the actual top guys who were there (Lomachenko when he was there, Mikey when he was there although that might have been a little before they moved up, even Walters and Gary Russell Jr. both would probably give those guys hell). So what am I really watching? I feel like I'm watching B+, maybe A- on Santa Cruz's best day, 122 pounders, who are probably more like B- 126 pounders, being kept away from all the A-level boxers out there, and put in action wars instead, except they're all advised by Haymon and so respectful of each other, and clearly not interested in truly going to war to be the best in some cases, that their action fights aren't even necessarily that heated. They are action fights without animosity, and "top level fights" without top level fighters, at least not at 126.

So it's kind of an illusion. Maybe the first fight at 126 between Santa Cruz and Frampton, with both of them coming off big wins, the illusion was sort of effective, plus the fight was competitive enough that overall it was a success, but as time has passed, and these guys became more inactive and more disconnected from all the top fighters around their weight classes, the rivalry became much less interesting to me, culminating in a one-sided rematch.

So there you go. You can say I'm just being negative, but I think I made fair points, no? You posted what were supposed to be the best fights of this year, but most of them involve corruption or incompetent referees or belt organizations or commissions, and very few of them were actually great fights.

I mean you posted 7 supposedly top fights from this year, but only two ended in knockouts (not counting the low blows by Ward), and one of those was stopped on missed punches, and the other was not a real KO, it was a weight drained fighter quitting from fatigue and an eye injury. So in reality of the 7 best fights of the year according to you, not one ended in a legitimate KO, and I believe only three had true knockdowns in them (not counting Brook taking knees. Did he ever get truly knocked down though? I forget. If he did, then that's four, but again he was fatigued much more than he was rocked at any point), and one was just a quick flash knockdown by GGG.

The other happened in Jack-Degale, and oh I forgot that's another ****ed up uneven playing field fight in my opinion. I don't think that fight had VADA! So to me that fight was one boxer on massive PEDs, using the latest weight bullying techniques as well, walking down and through the better boxer. So instead of seeing the boxing match on an even playing field to see who was truly better, we saw one boxer probably cheat to put a beating on the other in the ring, but then the boxer who had been cheated in the actual fight ended up cheating the other on the scorecards, because he's a future UK star they want to protect in a growing market to make money off of.

So that's another fight where you try to hold it up as an example of what's good about boxing in 2017, when in reality it's actually an example of multiple things that are not only wrong, broken, and corrupt in boxing in 2017, but extremely dangerous. On skills alone that fight should never have been dangerous for Degale, and in fact it wasn't even that much of a legacy fight or important fight outside of it being a unification fight (but in a weak division), but due strictly in my opinion to what APPEARED to ME, subjectively and allegedly, to be PEDs and weight bullying, Degale took the beating of his career, in a sustained fashion.

So how is that an example of something good? Jack used to be a C-level boxer, now he's walking through every punch Degale lands and throwing GGG-like bombs to his body, all after beginning to work with Memo Heredia... Come on. Let's be real.

So that's my opinion on all those fights. I respect your opinion, and you can disagree if you want, but I'm just bringing up facts, and I think I made very reasonable points.

“For this fight, the Badou Jack fight,” DeGale said, “I’ve been tested five times in three weeks already because you’ve got Olympic-style drug testing happening.

The WBC world super middleweight champion Jack (20-1-2, 12 KOs) has been tested regularly by the Las Vegas-based Voluntary Anti-Doping Association (VADA). The WBC runs the “Clean Boxing Program” in conjunction with VADA.

“I actually think Al Haymon paid for the Olympic-style drug testing because we both ordered it,” DeGale said. “So I’m happy with that. That’s what I want.”


Just another example how you talk sht without even knowing sht...You made me fall out of my seat when I read you comment about Rigondeaux / Wars / ACTION Packed. I'm a HUGE fan of his but I was there LIVE when he faced DRIAN FRANCISCO. And after a few rounds EVERYONE went to the rest room, get a smokoe, order a drink, food. He was BOO'd it put a lot of ppl to sleep.