Why didn't Hagler challenge himself

[elfag]

Bring a threat to Hagler, and the fight is made in minutes.

Bring a threat to Floyd, and the fight isn't made, for years.

Both are in the same vicinity atg-wise.

fight made in minutes?

hagler took 5 years to fight one eyed welterweight SRL refused the rematch when it was a close fight and refused to fight at 175 because big scary men were there.

Floyd fought at 130-154 with no problems, with men often outweighing him by 20 lbs. Oh and his close fights? He made immediate rematches unlike coward Hagler.

[john l]

I understand "cherry picking titles" and I agree, I dont really regard people like Broner and even worse, Guerrero as multi weight champs BUT it was pretty difficult to cherry pick titles when Hagler was MW.

Hagler won his belts in 1980, SPinks won the WBA a year later and by 83 had solidified himself as THE lhw on the planet.

That would have been THE time for MW champ v LHW champ and would do nothing but enhance Haglers legacy, which going 15 with Duran didnt really do.

Heck if the fight happened a couple years later in 85, when Hagler only fought once, he would have been fighting for all the marbles.

So there were definite legacy defining and monetary moments for Hagler to move up. He refused to do so and it hurts him. Although I disagree that he didnt challenge himself as the op puts it.

I agree that fightin Spinks(who I think is also ATG) would have enhanced his legacy(if he won).But I don't blame guys for not moving up as long as they have unified their div.And their div still has very good/great fighters left to fight.Hagler never ran out of great fighters to fight at 160.Also I think you have to take body shape and size some guys have a body more suited to moving up div(Hearns,Arguello)

[McNulty]

fight made in minutes?

hagler took 5 years to fight one eyed welterweight SRL refused the rematch when it was a close fight and refused to fight at 175 because big scary men were there.

Floyd fought at 130-154 with no problems, with men often outweighing him by 20 lbs. Oh and his close fights? He made immediate rematches unlike coward Hagler.

Well said. The 130-154 really stings. +1

I agree that fightin Spinks(who I think is also ATG) would have enhanced his legacy(if he won).But I don't blame guys for not moving up as long as they have unified their div.And their div still has very good/great fighters left to fight.Hagler never ran out of great fighters to fight at 160.Also I think you have to take body shape and size some guys have a body more suited to moving up div(Hearns,Arguello)

Hagler never had any great fighters at 160 besides the smaller guys moving up.

I think the problem with Boxing history is people repeat the old masters because it makes them congruent. It's also less work to watch the fights themselves and its not common to have a mature Boxing brain as a non-competitor. Even some real Boxers (not brawlers) won't talk bad about a former pro like Hagler because there is often this industry thing where people IN the industry never tlak bad about anyone IN the industry. Boxing isn't that young where it can't handle the damn truth.

Look at YouTube footage of Scypion, Hamsho, Roldan, Sibson, Antuofermo, Minter, etc and use all of your Boxing knowledge of technique, tempo, and what makes a fighter special. All of the cats are club fighters. Antuofermo was dropped twice in the 2nd round against a BUM that was 12-9-2 the fight before Hagler.

I'll rewatch fights every 5-10 years because even though I was a competitor I like to keep things fresh and in perspective. I swore for almost 20 years that Hagler beat Leonard, but once I was involved in the sport, learned to score from the best in the business, and accumulated a wealth of knowledge --- I rescored the fight and I was completely wrong.

One of the big myths Hagler perpetuated was he could NEVER get a shot at the title. If you look at where the title was, you'll see there are *'s connected to his comment.

Antuofermo had the title for 1 year before losing it to Minter. Minter lost the title to Hagler 3 months later. Antuofermo beat Corro for the title who only had the title for 1 year (beating Valdes) and Corro pretty much only fought in Argentina. Corro beat Valdes for the title and Valdes fought for the title vacant against an old Monzon a year before that. Monzon had it before it went vacant (maybe weight or ?) and all that was happening with Monzon when Hagler was just turning pro.

So Hagler is fùcking lying about nobody would give him a title shot, like someone had the title and was avoiding him. The title was changing hands every year pretty much.

Hagler blamed Vegas for losing to SRL, Hagler LOST to SRL because he gave up too many of the early rounds. Hagler was mute for too many rounds because he was trying to feel out Leonard. Leonard is a true virtuoso and an ATG. Hagler isn't an ATG. The way Leonard came back to beat Duran showed that. Hagler didn't have the guts to change gears and do what was necessary to beat a great fighter. Haglers style was tailor made for Ray. There was nothing Hagler could do to win in a rematch against a FRESH SRL and thats why he put his tail between his legs and blamed everybody but himself. He was like you need to beat the champ, I was never hurt, Ray said I beat him and all kinds of bullshít. Ray never said that.

Hagler is about as much of an ATG as Winky Wright. Winky did the same thing Hagler did, got his best wins against smaller guys coming up a la Trinidad, Mosley, and Quartey. If those guys were naturals at that weight Winky would have gotten shít on. Nobody says WInky is anything and most fans forgot about Winky.

[john l]

Well said. The 130-154 really stings. +1



Hagler never had any great fighters at 160 besides the smaller guys moving up.

I think the problem with Boxing history is people repeat the old masters because it makes them congruent. It's also less work to watch the fights themselves and its not common to have a mature Boxing brain as a non-competitor. Even some real Boxers (not brawlers) won't talk bad about a former pro like Hagler because there is often this industry thing where people IN the industry never tlak bad about anyone IN the industry. Boxing isn't that young where it can't handle the damn truth.

Look at YouTube footage of Scypion, Hamsho, Roldan, Sibson, Antuofermo, Minter, etc and use all of your Boxing knowledge of technique, tempo, and what makes a fighter special. All of the cats are club fighters. Antuofermo was dropped twice in the 2nd round against a BUM that was 12-9-2 the fight before Hagler.

I'll rewatch fights every 5-10 years because even though I was a competitor I like to keep things fresh and in perspective. I swore for almost 20 years that Hagler beat Leonard, but once I was involved in the sport, ;earned to score from the best in the business, and accumulated a wealth of knowledge, I rescored the fight and I was completely wrong.

One of the big myths Hagler perpetuated was he could NEVER get a shot at the title. If you look at where the title was, you'll see there are *'s connected to his comment.

Antuofermo had the title for 1 year before losing it to Minter. Minter lost the title to Hagler 3 months later. Antuofermo beat Corro for the title who only had the title for 1 year (beating Valdes) and Corro pretty much only fought in Argentina. Corro beat Valdes for the title and Valdes fought for the title vacant against an old Monzon a year before that. Monzon had it before it went vacant (maybe weight or ?) and all that was happening when Hagler was just turning pro.

So Hagler is fùcking lying about nobody would give him a title shot, like someone had the title and was avoiding him. The title was changing hands every year pretty much.

Hagler blamed Vegas for losing to SRL, Hagler LOST to SRL because he gave up too many of the early rounds. Hagler was mute for too many rounds because he was trying to feel out Leonard. Leonard is a true ATG. Hagler isn't an ATG.

Hagler is about as much of an ATG as Winky Wright. Winky did the same thing Hagler did, got his best wins against smaller guys coming up a la Trinidad, Mosley, and Quartey. If those guys were naturals at that weight Winky would have gotten shít on. Nobody says WInky is anything and most fans forgot about Winky.

Its true Hagler was kept from title shot.Look close at his rec he should have got shot as early as 77-78.And its a fact that Ted K and Tip O'neal put press on promoters and WBA I think to get him shot.Go back and look at his rec from 76 on.But I agree with ya on the Mayweather part and also having SSL shading that fight with Hagler.

[McNulty]

Its true Hagler was kept from title shot. Look close at his rec he should have got shot as early as 77-78.And its a fact that Ted K and Tip O'neal put press on promoters and WBA I think to get him shot.Go back and look at his rec from 76 on.But I agree with ya on the Mayweather part and also having SSL shading that fight with Hagler.

No he wasn't. Proof below.

The titles were changing hands every year. Nobody avoided Hagler. Hagler built his own mythos and a lot of cats bought into it.

• 1980-09-27 Minter loses to Hagler.
• 1980-03-16 Antuofermo loses to Minter.
• 1979-11-30 Hagler gets a DRAW with Antuofermo.
• 1979-06-30 Antuofermo beats Corro.
• 1978-04-22 Corro beats Valdes.
• 1977-11-05 Valdes beats Briscoe. (Titles vacant Monzon retired)

Monzon had the title from 70' (beat Benvenuti) until he retired in 77'.

Hagler turned pro in 1973 and was losing to the likes of Watts and Monroe in 76'. Why would Hagler get a title shot in 77' when he was losing in 76'?

[CHOWWOKKA]

Why is Golovkin a puS5y?

[Raggamuffin]

fight made in minutes?

hagler took 5 years to fight one eyed welterweight SRL refused the rematch when it was a close fight and refused to fight at 175 because big scary men were there.

Floyd fought at 130-154 with no problems, with men often outweighing him by 20 lbs. Oh and his close fights? He made immediate rematches unlike coward Hagler.

What a stupid ****en post, lmao. Clueless, lies and calling Hagler a coward should get your sorry ass thrown off this site. And get rid of the fruity ass avy.

The clown called Hagler a coward, Lmmfao rotff lmao lol...

[john l]

No he wasn't. Proof below.

The titles were changing hands every year. Nobody avoided Hagler. Hagler built his own mythos and a lot of cats bought into it.

• 1980-09-27 Minter loses to Hagler.
• 1980-03-16 Antuofermo loses to Minter.
• 1979-11-30 Hagler gets a DRAW with Antuofermo.
• 1979-06-30 Antuofermo beats Corro.
• 1978-04-22 Corro beats Valdes.
• 1977-11-05 Valdes beats Briscoe. (Titles vacant Monzon retired)

Monzon had the title from 70' (beat Benvenuti) until he retired in 77'.

Hagler turned pro in 1973 and was losing to the likes of Watts and Monroe in 76'. Why would Hagler get a title shot in 77' when he was losing in 76'?

1st of all he NEVER lost to Watts that was BS dec.He did lose to "the worm"but won koed him twice within 18mths.He also beat Hart,Briscoe(a little past it)and Watts in rematch.And he should have got shot before Ant who he beat and got BS DRAW.Why no imm rematch to fight everone thought he won?And those philly middles were a lot better than their records might show.But we can just agree to disagree.And like I said he lost ONLY ONCE before SSL and that was that close dec with Monroe who koed twice before end of 77.So to say"he was losing in 76-77"is not really true.

[Raggamuffin]

195 posts from the ****ty TS, lmao. You love GG so much that you'll dis Hagler and Monzon, lmfao. Delete this **** thread.

[john l]

What a stupid ****en post, lmao. Clueless, lies and calling Hagler a coward should get your sorry ass thrown off this site. And get rid of the fruity ass avy.

The clown called Hagler a coward, Lmmfao rotff lmao lol...

I like McNulty but calling Hagler a coward is going way too far.Its not like he ran away from rematch with SSL he retired.