Anthony Joshua Reveals How A Fight With Mike Tyson Would Go

[bluepete]

Only weight divisions / classes exist. Jawbone dimensions or skull dimension divisions / classes don't exist. Even skill divisions / classes don't exist. Boxers are only separated by weight divisions. Now why would that be? Perhaps if you did some research, you'd know the answer to the question.

Weight is the common denominator for dividing boxers into groups. Nothing else! Not skill, not jawbone or skull thickness but purely weight.



Yes, it has been. My statistics establish exactly that.



Again, reach and height divisions don't exist. Only weight divisions exist and that's it. It can be statistically proven that weight plays a big factor on a boxer's knockout percentage and win record. I've already done this. Can you do the same with height with actual facts instead of just spouting your own subjective opinions / views?



In general and on average, it does. Facts suggest so.



Numbers are facts! Facts have the highest priority in debates / discussion. Unless you can refute my fact based arguments by providing facts of your own, my conclusions are justified.



Again, I'm repeating myself here a couple of times but it's weight that is the common denominator. Hence, weight divisions exist and not reach divisions or age divisions or anything like that. Meaning, weight is the most significant factor in a boxing bout.

The statistics support this conclusion. I'm yet to see any stat that suggests height playing a bigger factor than weight when it comes to knockout records and win records. If you can, please share those stats with me.



By 'all things being equal', I mean when boxers are the same level in everything except weight. So for example, Evander Holyfield is a lighter boxer with one of the greatest punch resistance ever. Whereas Vitali Klitschko is a heavier boxer with one of the greatest punch resistance ever. Both evander Holyfield and Vitali Klitschko are at the same level since Evander Holyfield is a lighter ATG and Vitali Klitschko is a heavier ATG. Now comparing these two is valid because it's a like for like comparison and from the comparison, it's easy to identify that Vitali Klitschko has even better punch resistance and a much better knockout record compared to Evander Holyfield. Why? Because of size.

So to compare two boxers who are equal (or close to it), you have to compare two boxers at the same level. So it's correct to compare a heavy ATG with a lighter ATG. It's correct to compare a heavy journeyman with a lighter journeyman. However, it's incorrect to compare a heavy bum / Journeyman (David Prince) to a light ATG (Evander Holyfield) as they are not equal.

So in conclusion, when two boxers are compared who are at the same level, the heavier boxer usually has better punch resistance and power.



With very few exceptions, knockouts are ALWAYS caused by power. A boxer can have all the skills in the world or land all the accumulations, but if the power isn't there, then knockouts aren't going to happen. Hence, Manny Pacquiao was able to destroy Ricky Hatton but couldn't even drop Antonio Margarito with his skills and accumulations.



There's something called 'Laws Of Averages'. If you don't what it is, I suggest you research on it.

If a boxer fights enough times, they are bound to knock someone out, even if they are competing against heavier opponents. That doesn't mean they are impressive knockout artists because they knocked out one rare opponent. It's just the laws of averages coming into play.

James Toney knocking out Evander Holyfield is an example of a rare instance. How about all his other fights at heavyweight. How many other opponents did he knockout? He knocked one opponent out but failed to KO all the others. Thus, it makes him a poor puncher.

The best punchers knockout more opponents than they don't knockout. They have an overall higher knockout percentage. James Toney's knockout percentage is way below 50% (feather fist).



Again, it was weight which was the biggest factor for Holyfield's decreased knockout percentage and not anything else. Hence, the reasons for having weight divisions.



No, it's not a 'flawed' conclusion because the conclusion is based on stats which are ACTUAL facts. Facts are, heavier opponents are normally more difficult to knock out than lighter opponents. Thus, heavier boxers normally have better punch resistance as they are knocked out less frequently than lighter boxers.



The opinions and conclusions of other people are irrelevant if it contradicts actual facts. It's a logical fallacy named 'appealing to authority'. There was a time when scientific experts believed that we will never fly. Now we do. So facts >>> other people's opinions / conclusions, even if they happen to be experts.



A totally irrelevant point to the topic being discussed (significance of weight in boxing).

Since you like to dismiss my examples as irrelevant, and you like using Holyfield as an example, let's look at him. At world class, so allowing for unknowns record padding Evander won 7 at cruiser 6 by Ko. He then went to heavy, and Ko'd 7 there too. No sign of a drop in power. One of these was the heavyweight champ. The first man to take him the distance was 6 4.Then, out of the next five, he's only stoppage was against a shorter man who still outweighed him. All the men that extended him were 6 3 to 6 5.After losing to Moorer, he went the distance with iron chinned Mercer. Lost to 6 5 Bowe. Then back to stoppages 3 fights in a row against shorter men. Next time he lost was to the 6 5 Lewis twice. After Lewis the consensus view was Holyfield was majorly on the slide, splitting fights with Ruiz and losing to Toney. Every stoppage he had from this point on was over shorter fighters or those the same size. All those who beat him, Donald, Valuev ect were taller. The men who took him the distance in he's wins were also taller, Oqendo and Saverse. All of this you put down to weight. With notably tough exceptions like Mercer, he stopped the shorter men regardless of weight. In almost all the fights he lost or struggled with, it was against much taller men. Your weight idea here has been shown to be misleading. Seems the height, reach, range factor was more of an impact on Evanders KO record. That, and for the fact that alot of Holyfields heavyweight career he was on the slide. Post Ruiz he wasn't the same.

[juggernaut666]

Still obssessing about me ain't you son? Most of your post was pretty good tbh. As for Richard Dawkins up here, he's not going to convince me of anything. You, however, have convinced me that what I think is very important to you since you can't stop talking about me. I feel very special. ��

Richard Dawkins happens to be right,just not in this particular match bc Tyson was one of the few who fought better at a lighter weight.Know one will convince you bc you would then have to take an L here and actually come to grips heavier guys are indeed harder to fight on average no matter what twisting you do of longer limbs..taking less shots...etc. as the reason why.

you might also want to check out "biggest guy you ever fought Thread" in the training section before you call me SON!

[bluepete]

Richard Dawkins happens to be right,just not in this particular match bc Tyson was one of the few who fought better at a lighter weight.Know one will convince you bc you would then have to take an L here and actually come to grips heavier guys are indeed harder to fight on average no matter what twisting you do of longer limbs..taking less shots...etc. as the reason why.

you might also want to check out "biggest guy you ever fought Thread" in the training section before you call me SON!

Taller, rangier guys are indeed harder to fight, and it's a fact they are in general heavier. If we're talking Tysons success against them then sure he had power, but more than that he'd perfected the style of fighting against bigger men at heavy, that headmovement, combining body head work ect. For instance Vitali is seen as the poster boy for a good chin as a superheavy, but you gotta admit that he didn't get hit alot, that awkward leaning style was hard to get to with any power. That doesn't mean weighing what he ways gives you similar durability, or that he's actually got a better chin than David Tua, James Toney ect. As for the son remark, I call everyone son, from those who I train with at Keddles, a hybrid MMA gym, to anyone I've boxed with. Being from Peckham, I could call you alot worse, but I despise Internet tough guys. I did gather by your name and reverence for all things heavy that you might be on the large side. I don't give a ****. I'm just happy I've given you a reason to get through the work day. Hate is as good a motivation as any. 😀

[juggernaut666]

Taller, rangier guys are indeed harder to fight, and it's a fact they are in general heavier. If we're talking Tysons success against them then sure he had power, but more than that he'd perfected the style of fighting against bigger men at heavy, that headmovement, combining body head work ect. For instance Vitali is seen as the poster boy for a good chin as a superheavy, but you gotta admit that he didn't get hit alot, that awkward leaning style was hard to get to with any power. That doesn't mean weighing what he ways gives you similar durability, or that he's actually got a better chin than David Tua, James Toney ect. As for the son remark, I call everyone son, from those who I train with at Keddles, a hybrid MMA gym, to anyone I've boxed with. Being from Peckham, I could call you alot worse, but I despise Internet tough guys. I did gather by your name and reverence for all things heavy that you might be on the large side. I don't give a ****. I'm just happy I've given you a reason to get through the work day. Hate is as good a motivation as any. 😀

Getting hit alot doesnt prove you have a better chin....Tyson was hit even less ,common sense would show you could still see how good his chin was .

Fighters like 90's Foreman is the exception ,bc he KNEW he was going to eat MANY punches to land one against quicker fighters ,at 250 plus he arguably had the best chin ....do you think 70's Foreman of 220 had taken punches better ? From weak puncher Young who dropped him /Lyle /Ali ? Do you think 1991 Foreman would even blink at those guys punches ? Nope

Or the Foreman who fought Holyfield/Morrison/Stewart /Briggs/ Cooper /Cooney/Moorer / ALL heavier hitters besides Holyfield who hit Foreman 15 X in succession in one combo sequence in their fight ?

Tua was 225 to 245 at 5'10 hes a HUGE HW so im not even sure what relevance he has too you when Tua proves MY point about weight and taking punches ?

Toney has no HW wins against RELEVANT guys ,If weight doesnt matter how does 160 Toney fare against the 217 Holyfield from 1996 ?

The only thing you can call me is CORRECT !

[bluepete]

Getting hit alot doesnt prove you have a better chin....Tyson was hit even less ,common sense would show you could still see how good his chin was .

Fighters like 90's Foreman is the exception ,bc he KNEW he was going to eat MANY punches to land one against quicker fighters ,at 250 plus he arguably had the best chin ....do you think 70's Foreman of 220 had taken punches better ? From weak puncher Young who dropped him /Lyle /Ali ? Do you think 1991 Foreman would even blink at those guys punches ? Nope

Or the Foreman who fought Holyfield/Morrison/Stewart /Briggs/ Cooper /Cooney/Moorer / ALL heavier hitters besides Holyfield who hit Foreman 15 X in succession in one combo sequence in their fight ?

Tua was 225 to 245 at 5'10 hes a HUGE HW so im not even sure what relevance he has too you when Tua proves MY point about weight and taking punches ?

The only thing you can call me is CORRECT !

I didn't say taking more meant you had a better chin. I said it's hard to make comparisons between a guy who takes alot compared to one who doesn't. Vitalis chin looked solid. He's defence was very good though. Tyson was hit less in he's early fights, but took plenty later on, starting with Ruddock. I don't think there was any difference with 225lb Foreman and 250lb Foremans chin. He's stamina was alot better. He had a better defence that worked for him, cross arm due to Moore. I watched him train at the London Arena. Watched him spar. Chin down and took alot on he's arms. Ali stopped him due to exhaustion. That's a well established fact of boxing history.Lyle was a good puncher, who Foreman rated a harder hitter than anyone else he fought. Young floored him in a fight that George suffered from heatstroke in. He collapsed after. Not everything is a simple as you make out. He brushed off alot of good punches in he's first career. Watch George have a good wobble against Ken Lakusta in he's second career if you think he's chin changed. Against a lesser puncher. It's not all about power you know. Sometimes it's just where and how it hits you. Tua was at he's best at 220 to 225.He took all those shots from Ike and Hasim without flinching at a light weight. That's my point.He didn't need weight to have one of the best chins in the division. Hes chin didn't get better heavier either. It was always solid. The point was was Vitalis chin better than Tuas? According to some posters the bigger durable man should have a better chin than the smaller durable man. Doesnt seem to be the case in real life world level boxing. In case you pull the old "these are all one offs" arguments, you've directly compared the power of Georges first career opponents to he's second. He said out of he's own mouth Lyle hit the hardest. Are he's opinions not going to matter now? According to Chisora, a man of 220lb, Haye, hit harder than Vitali. Don't tell me, in this special case Vitalis extra 25 odd pounds that should mean more power is irrelevant. You see, no matter how many Bothas say Lewis and Tyson hit equally hard, no matter how many Holyfields say gaining weight doesn't improve punch power, it's not going to matter because you have your own fixed opinions.Why do these exceptions to the rule keep coming up? You're only correct in your own mind. I can line up men in the 220s who hit as hard as any man of 250 when this shouldn't be possible. Same goes for chins. Men like Tua at 225,Donald at 228,Mercer at 226,Holyfield at 215,Tyson at 217,Mccall at 228,James Toney 217 who had chins at least the equal of any heavy you can name. In fact, outside of Vitali, who didn't get hit much and old George I'm struggling to think of any durable super heavies. At least in comparison. Admit it, most of the divisions truly outstanding chins, by far, belonged to the smaller heavyweights. To know what would improve a chin, you have to know what makes it. Leaving aside Chavez and Hagler and their thick skulls, we have two men in Chuvalo and Lamotta who also thought it was thick jaws, big heads and strong necks. I guess they wouldn't know. Since the best chins are on lighter men, at least the majority, and thick skulls are the factor for at least five that I know of, how can weight gain improve your chin? Carry on..

[juggernaut666]

I didn't say taking more meant you had a better chin. I said it's hard to make comparisons between a guy who takes alot compared to one who doesn't. Vitalis chin looked solid. He's defence was very good though. Tyson was hit less in he's early fights, but took plenty later on, starting with Ruddock. I don't think there was any difference with 225lb Foreman and 250lb Foremans chin. He's stamina was alot better. He had a better defence that worked for him, cross arm due to Moore. I watched him train at the London Arena. Watched him spar. Chin down and took alot on he's arms. Ali stopped him due to exhaustion. That's a well established fact of boxing history.Lyle was a good puncher, who Foreman rated a harder hitter than anyone else he fought. Young floored him in a fight that George suffered from heatstroke in. He collapsed after. Not everything is a simple as you make out. He brushed off alot of good punches in he's first career. Watch George have a good wobble against Ken Lakusta in he's second career if you think he's chin changed. Against a lesser puncher. It's not all about power you know. Sometimes it's just where and how it hits you. Tua was at he's best at 220 to 225.He took all those shots from Ike and Hasim without flinching at a light weight. That's my point.He didn't need weight to have one of the best chins in the division. Hes chin didn't get better heavier either. It was always solid. The point was was Vitalis chin better than Tuas? According to some posters the bigger durable man should have a better chin than the smaller durable man. Doesnt seem to be the case in real life world level boxing. In case you pull the old "these are all one offs" arguments, you've directly compared the power of Georges first career opponents to he's second. He said out of he's own mouth Lyle hit the hardest. Are he's opinions not going to matter now? According to Chisora, a man of 220lb, Haye, hit harder than Vitali. Don't tell me, in this special case Vitalis extra 25 odd pounds that should mean more power is irrelevant. You see, no matter how many Bothas say Lewis and Tyson hit equally hard, no matter how many Holyfields say gaining weight doesn't improve punch power, it's not going to matter because you have your own fixed opinions.Why do these exceptions to the rule keep coming up? You're only correct in your own mind. I can line up men in the 220s who hit as hard as any man of 250 when this shouldn't be possible. Same goes for chins. Men like Tua at 225,Donald at 228,Mercer at 226,Holyfield at 215,Tyson at 217,Mccall at 228,James Toney 217 who had chins at least the equal of any heavy you can name. In fact, outside of Vitali, who didn't get hit much and old George I'm struggling to think of any durable super heavies. At least in comparison. Admit it, most of the divisions truly outstanding chins, by far, belonged to the smaller heavyweights. To know what would improve a chin, you have to know what makes it. Leaving aside Chavez and Hagler and their thick skulls, we have two men in Chuvalo and Lamotta who also thought it was thick jaws, big heads and strong necks. I guess they wouldn't know. Since the best chins are on lighter men, at least the majority, and thick skulls are the factor for at least five that I know of, how can weight gain improve your chin? Carry on..

Lyle hit him the hardest bc he was more vulnerable to get rocked . Foreman also thought Shavers hit harder than him until "I" pointed out to him the comparisons in opponents and quality ,he self said he was the full package to ME in his comeback ,but clowns still want to use AGE as a measuring stick .

I didnt read all that eye straining bc again its just regurgitated points of straw man angles . Youve been proven wrong at every turn here ...i'll just leave you with this before it turns into a Foreman thread now !


"Actually, the old George Foreman would’ve given Ali a tougher fight. But the young George, with his wild swings, my guy would’ve beaten him all night. George, as an old guy, he was relaxed, steady and he would grind you down – A,Dundee


You even suggested Tua AT 5'10 was at HIS best at 225 so THEREFOR V_Klitchko at F'ing 6'7 should follow suit ...another winner pete !

[bluepete]

Lyle hit him the hardest bc he was more vulnerable to get rocked . Foreman also thought Shavers hit harder than him until "I" pointed out to him the comparisons in opponents and quality ,he self said he was the full package to ME in his comeback ,but clowns still want to use AGE as a measuring stick .

I didnt read all that eye straining bc again its just regurgitated points of straw man angles . Youve been proven wrong at every turn here ...i'll just leave you with this before it turns into a Foreman thread now !


"Actually, the old George Foreman would’ve given Ali a tougher fight. But the young George, with his wild swings, my guy would’ve beaten him all night. George, as an old guy, he was relaxed, steady and he would grind you down – A,Dundee

You keep replying but you say yourself your not reading anything I say . I keep making a mug of you with real life examples that you can't answer. Were the majority of the heavyweights with the best chins the men I mentioned or not? Do the durable men I've mentioned have thicker heads, skull he jaws or not? Shavers never fought Foreman. What the hell you talking about. You talking sparring? Still Foreman says lyle hit him harder than anyone he fought. Undisputable.The clown is someone who quotes Dundee saying old George woulve caused Ali more problems, but the reasons he gives are nothing to do with the discussion. He doesn't say a word about old George having a better punch, chin, or being better because he was heavier! What a ****** quote to use in this discussion. It's about weight power and chin remember? Btw, guess who Rid**** Bowe said was the heaviest puncher he fought. 214lb Herbie Hide. Shame he had a bad chin. But he had a ton of power. Hold on, that shouldn't be so..

[bluepete]

Lyle hit him the hardest bc he was more vulnerable to get rocked . Foreman also thought Shavers hit harder than him until "I" pointed out to him the comparisons in opponents and quality ,he self said he was the full package to ME in his comeback ,but clowns still want to use AGE as a measuring stick .

I didnt read all that eye straining bc again its just regurgitated points of straw man angles . Youve been proven wrong at every turn here ...i'll just leave you with this before it turns into a Foreman thread now !


"Actually, the old George Foreman would’ve given Ali a tougher fight. But the young George, with his wild swings, my guy would’ve beaten him all night. George, as an old guy, he was relaxed, steady and he would grind you down – A,Dundee


You even suggested Tua AT 5'10 was at HIS best at 225 so THEREFOR V_Klitchko at F'ing 6'7 should follow suit ...another winner pete !

I never said Klitschko should weigh 225.I said according to you he's chin should be better than Tuas, who was much lighter. Show me where I said he should follow suit. Saying your theory doesn't pan out despite the weight difference isn't saying Vitali should lose any weight. Have I ever said that.? Your the one who said the ridiculous "Tua was huge at 220 to 240.Hes legs were big. That's it. He was fat at 240.. Since you like Dundee, here's one for you. "Size dosent matter, Ali liked fighting big guys, he'd have stopped the Klitschkos". Haha.

[juggernaut666]

You keep replying but you say yourself your not reading anything I say . I keep making a mug of you with real life examples that you can't answer. Where the majority of the heavyweights with the best chins the men I mentioned or not? Do the durable men I've mentioned have thicker heads, skull he jaws or not? Shavers never fought Foreman. What the hell you talking about. You talking sparring? Still Foreman says lyle hit him harder than anyone he fought. Undisputable.The clown is someone who quotes Dundee saying old George woulve caused Ali more problems, but the reasons he gives are nothing to do with the discussion. He doesn't say a word about old George having a better punch, chin, or being better because he was heavier! What a ****** quote to use in this discussion. It's about weight power and chin remember? Btw, guess who Rid**** Bowe said was the heaviest puncher he fought. 214lb Herbie Hide. Shame he had a bad chin. But he had a ton of power. Hold on, that shouldn't be so..

Im only skimming what you are posting .

The clown here is one who cant see Foreman punch resistance at his girthier build .

The clown is one who cant understand that being bigger is an advantage even if you lose .


The clown here is someone who cant understand Lennox Lewis became a harder puncher weighing above 235 .

The clown is someone who thinks clumsey off balance ,innacurate Bowe is a more talented fighter than lateral fast accurate counter punch Holyfield .

The clown cant comprehend Bowe defeated Holyfield Twice when the weight disparity was greatest .

The clown is someone who would use David Price as evidence size doesnt matter

The clown is someone who uses prime Tyson and then uses NOT prime Klitchko to utilise more straw man points .

The clown is someone who thinks Bowe was at his best at 230 pounds going the distance with shot Tony Tubbs .

The clown is someone who thinks modern HW's should be in 220's .


The clown is someone who uses M.Tyson as a measuring stick to prove being smaller is an advantage .

The clown is someone who thinks bc Tua at 5'10 was at his best at 225 it applies to 6'7 V_Klitchko .

The clown is someone who in general ignores facts ,makes straw man arguments and thinks he can pretzel twist someone who is smarter than he is !


The clown doesnt even know Foreman ducked Shavers bc he feared his power in the 70's .And cant understand why Foreman had numerous conversations about Shavers even on talk shows .


The clown cant understand that a harder to defeat Foreman would be less susceptible to getting k.od by Lyle .

The clown has said so many backwards things i cant remember them all!

The clown is YOU !

[bluepete]

Im only skimming what you are posting .

The clown here is one who cant see Foreman punch resistance at his girthier build .

The clown is one who cant understand that being bigger is an advantage even if you lose .


The clown here is someone who cant understand Lennox Lewis became a harder puncher weighing above 235 .

The clown is someone who thinks clumsey off balance ,innacurate Bowe is a more talented fighter than lateral fast accurate counter punch Holyfield .

The clown cant comprehend Bowe defeated Holyfield Twice when the weight disparity was greatest .

Tge clown is someone who would use David Price as evidence size doesnt matter

The clown is someone who uses prime Tyson and then uses NOT prime Klitchko to utilise more straw man points .

The clown is someone who thinks Bowe was at his best at 230 pounds going the distance with shot Tony Tubbs .

The clown is someone who thinks modern HW's should be in 220's .


The clown is someone who uses M.Tyson as a measuring stick to prove being smaller is an advantage .

The clown is someone who thinks bc Tua at 5'10 was at his best at 225 it apples to 6'7 V_Klitchko .

The clown is someone who in general ignores facts ,makes straw man arguments and thinks he can pretzel twist someone who is smarter than he is !

The clown has said so many backwards things i cant remember them all!

The clown is YOU !

Lots rubbish as usual. Here's one simple point to show your talking rubbish. You can't show me where I said Vitali should follow suit and drop weight because Tua weighed 225.. Can you? Where is it? Yeah, the Lewis who beat Ruddock was 227,and he hit as hard as he ever did. Course you lied about him being heavier than Golota. Still aint addressed that. Bowe was a more talented heavy, the fact he ate it away doesn't change the fact most experts rated him as one of the greatest talents of all time, and Holyfield said he was the best all rounder he fought. Fat clumsy ect. Haha. Didn't say Wlad was in he's prime getting stopped early. Just he had the weight you think matters so much, and it didn't. Price's weight gain was a good example of bulking up having no protective effect in the real world. Your answer is to say how sturdy he looked in sparring. You think Foremans girth is why he survived the modern heavies, despite these men being barely bigger than he was when he fought Lyle. 226 Morrison, 227 Briggs. Both big punchers, both in the 220s neither got any better as they got heavier. AGAIN! More examples to follow. Your not smart. Your an idiot who ignored every real world example,keeps saying he's not coming back but keeps coming back, and doesn't even read the replies right, because your saying I said things I didn't. And Lewis still didn't outweigh Golota. And I never said Vitali should lose weight. Carry on..