You Say Horn Won? Show Your Scorecard

[Combat Talk Radio]

Good arguments on both sides, which is exactly why this was a close fight.

Rewatched the fight too, see it pretty much the same way as when I watched live, but I can totally see why some people scored it for Pac. It was a close fight, of that there is little doubt. Close fights aren't robberies.

Exactly. It wasn't some blowout that people are claiming. Too many aren't giving Jeff Horn's movement and bullying the credit it deserves. He showed up and fought a good fight, and most importantly didn't let the legend across from him affect his performance. He deserves better than he and his wife are getting.

[hitman smax]

This was not a close fight. The state of their faces isn't close. The punch stats aren't close. And even the terrible ref, who showed little regard for the fighters health, was tempted to step in to save Horn from Pacquiao's onslaught of punishment.

Years ago, Pacquiao puts this guy to sleep. At age 38, he merely beats him in clear lopsided fashion.

There is a reason why we've never heard of any of these judges, and we will most likely never see any of them judge a championship level fight ever again. They served their purpose.

Oh, and we can all laugh at the notion that this is a "fight of the year" candidate. More like "fix of the year".

[KingHippo]

My scorecard:



Horn 10 10 9 9 10 10 10 9 9 10 10 9
Pacquiao 9 9 10 10 9 9 9 10 10 9 9 10


115-113 For the Hornet

[KingHippo]

This was not a close fight. The state of their faces isn't close. The punch stats aren't close. And even the terrible ref, who showed little regard for the fighters health, was tempted to step in to save Horn from Pacquiao's onslaught of punishment.

Years ago, Pacquiao puts this guy to sleep. At age 38, he merely beats him in clear lopsided fashion.

There is a reason why we've never heard of any of these judges, and we will most likely never see any of them judge a championship level fight ever again. They served their purpose.

Oh, and we can all laugh at the notion that this is a "fight of the year" candidate. More like "fix of the year".

Or maybe you just can't score fights.

"The state of their faces isn't close". Classic casual argument.

[HAMMER77777]

I dont remember my card, as I was Drunk when I Watched LOL. I think I had about 7-3 Horn, with 2 even, and an extra point for Manny in the 9th. Pretty much clear cut for Horn. But again, I was Drunk. I'll have to Watch again soberly then score.

I had JH by like 3-4 points or something like that. I was afraid he was gonna be robbed, but was relieved the right guy Won.

Full disclosure, my Filipino-American wife scored It 11-1 for JH. Seriously. Granted, she's not a Boxing expert at all, so take it with a grain of salt, but she's from the Philippines And even she Says MP lost.

[koolkc107]

Again, all you care about is punch volumes and Round 9.

Did Manny's punches hurt Horn? Only in Round 9 did they.

Did Manny get staggered or knocked back by Horn's punches? In at least 6 rounds, yes.

Was Manny on the backfoot the majority of the fight? Yes.

Manny was not the dominant one in the fight and the judges saw that dude.

IGNORE PUNCH VOLUME for just one moment. Take it out of the equation. Look at how Manny was getting walked down the majority of the fight and tell me he won that clearly.

This is the problem with people on NSB. Same crap that was talked about when Choco got schooled by Rungvisai. These heroes are getting walked down by underdogs, get the decision rightfully so, close though it may be, and you scream robbery. There was no robbery.

I'm fine if a person acknowledges it was a close fight that could have gone either way, over one swing round.

I'm fine if a person acknowledges their favorite fighter was getting bullied and backed up all night long and ultimately got beat by the better guy this night.

I'm fine if a person wants a rematch because maybe their fighter had a bad night.

What I'm not fine with is dismissing how effective Jeff Horn was at nullifying Manny in AT LEAST 6 rounds, or how effective Rungvisai was at nullifying Choco in AT LEAST 6 rounds.


This was a one-round differential fight. Manny was the one that needed to knock the guy out and he failed to do it, period. All he had to do was stop him in round 10 and he failed. Let's accept that.

I saw Manny stop Horn in his tracks all night.

I saw only one punch Horn landed all night that may have temporarily buzzed Pac and that was only for about 2 seconds.

Horn DID try to impose his size but it never translated into him landing the shots he was trying to. He missed an awful lot in this fight and that goes into scoring too.

You can TRY to take the amount of punches landed out of it, but if NO ONE is being hurt much by the other then clean landed punches are what decides a fight.
- and Pac won that going away.

It was not close.

Pac was not being nullified, he landed enough punches to make an absolute mess out of Horn and have the referee threatening to stop the fight after 9 rounds.

This fight wasn't close to anyone watching it objectively.

And I know I am objective because I am the guy that has spent years talking about Pac negatively and backing up THOSE negative comments the same factual way I am backing up these positive ones.

I am not a Pac fan.

But as a boxing fan, I cant sit there and watch that nonsense and say nothing about it.

[koolkc107]

Horn rounds: 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 12

Pac rounds: 3, 8, 9, 10, 11

12 for me was close enough to be a 10-10 round but I edged to Horn because he was more active and more aggressive throughout. Pac had his moments but couldnt get him a win there.

Clear rounds for Horn were 1, 2 and 4-6

Clear rounds for Pac were 3 and 8.

Explain your scoring for 2, 5, and 12 to me.

Be specific if you can be.

[Combat Talk Radio]

I saw Manny stop Horn in his tracks all night.

I saw only one punch Horn landed all night that may have temporarily buzzed Pac and that was only for about 2 seconds.

Horn DID try to impose his size but it never translated into him landing the shots he was trying to. He missed an awful lot in this fight and that goes into scoring too.

You can TRY to take the amount of punches landed out of it, but if NO ONE is being hurt much by the other then clean landed punches are what decides a fight.
- and Pac won that going away.

It was not close.

Pac was not being nullified, he landed enough punches to make an absolute mess out of Horn and have the referee threatening to stop the fight after 9 rounds.

This fight wasn't close to anyone watching it objectively.

And I know I am objective because I am the guy that has spent years talking about Pac negatively and backing up THOSE negative comments the same factual way I am backing up these positive ones.

I am not a Pac fan.

But as a boxing fan, I cant sit there and watch that nonsense and say nothing about it.

Again, all you're caring about is punches.

Manny was ON THE BACKFOOT all night long. Dispute that.

[RetroSpeed05]

I had it 8-4 while watching and i didn't fall for to Horns aggression the first time. The rounds Pac was cut i forgot he was winning i wonder if some gave it Horn because of that cut. Also in the 12th Horn ended the round on top of Pac but he missed every single punch he threw not one landed. I also do not score punches he was hitting Pac with when he had him in a headlock. I would watch it again if i have the time.

[hitman smax]

Or maybe you just can't score fights.

"The state of their faces isn't close". Classic casual argument.

Well, I was simply stating the obvious there. But I'm happy to reiterate the standard I'm sure we are all familiar with, which is commonly accepted as the basic criteria for a scoring a fight:

Effective Aggression – Being aggressive gives the impression of dominance, but unless the boxer is landing shots and not constantly getting countered, it’s not exactly “effective.” Judges look for effective aggression, where the aggressor consistently lands his punches and avoids those from his opponent.

My comment: while Horn was clearly the aggressor, he was clearly ineffective with his aggression. He was consistently hit, countered, and out boxed by Pacquiao, while Horn himself rarely landed.

Ring Generalship – The fighter who controls the action and enforces his will and style.

My comment: Pacquiao clearly preferred Horn to be the aggressor. He even challenged him to be aggressive before the fight. And Horn followed suit, fighting exactly the kind of style Pacquiao expected and wanted him to (minus the head butting and wrestling of course).

Defense – How well is a boxer slipping, parrying, and blocking punches? Good defense is important.

My comment: Horn's 15 percent connect percentage is consistent with what the eye saw during the fight: a guy throwing and missing punches. Aside from the two head clashes, Pacquiao looked like a guy who didn't eat a whole lot of leather during the fight. Horn, different story.

Hard and Clean Punches – To the untrained eye, it can appear as if a boxer is landing a lot of shots, when, in fact, most are being blocked or aren’t landing flush. A judge needs to look for hard shots that land clean.

My comment: Horn missed over 500 punches while consistently eating clean counter punches and nearly being stopped from the accumulated damage.

In summary, just because you hate Pacquiao doesn't mean he lost the fight. But I guess you can at least celebrate him being robbed. Well, that is, until he collects yet another huge paycheck from the rematch you will be purchasing on PPV.