If Pacquiao is overrated then tell me.......

[The Big Dunn]

Idk dude, I still see a lot of Floyd fans around here who trash the f**k out of Manny. I mean you got dudes who damn near act like he's a bum ass C fighter or something. Which is always baffling to me because wouldn't you want to pump Manny up if you're a Floyd fan? To make Floyd's win over Manny look that much better? And didn't Floyd himself say that his win over Manny was "the most important" of his career?

**** if I was a Floyd fan I'd be talking glowingly about Manny at every opportunity, lol.

I'll give you an example why you see criticism of Manny like that.

I was debating someone who said Broner wasn't that good (fair point) because he got his title shots because of his connections with a powerful promoter (haymon). Therefore, his 4 titles in 4 weight classes didn't mean much.

I responded by asking if the same thing could be said about Manny since got title shots at 135, 140, 147 and 154 because of Arum using his influence and connections.

Or take the Horn/Manny fight. I know I've been trolling about PED testing but in all seriousness we have posters that regularlu bring up PED related issue, that made threads inquiring if PED testing for Ward and Spence had begun, even though they were enrolled in VADA testing, yet have not said a peep about this fight.

I think when things like this happen it makes posters angry and then they take shots in anger.

[Thraxox]

I'll give you an example why you see criticism of Manny like that.

I was debating someone who said Broner wasn't that good (fair point) because he got his title shots because of his connections with a powerful promoter (haymon). Therefore, his 4 titles in 4 weight classes didn't mean much.

I responded by asking if the same thing could be said about Manny since got title shots at 135, 140, 147 and 154 because of Arum using his influence and connections.

Or take the Horn/Manny fight. I know I've been trolling about PED testing but in all seriousness we have posters that regularlu bring up PED related issue, that made threads inquiring if PED testing for Ward and Spence had begun, even though they were enrolled in VADA testing, yet have not said a peep about this fight.

I think when things like this happen it makes posters angry and then they take shots in anger.

Same thing could be said About Floyd when he was with Arum. All of fighters legacy under Arum will be null and void if that is the case.

[The Big Dunn]

Pacquiao accomplished more things than Floyd. And the only one to accomplish certain things than to all other boxers in the past and present. So I understand why many people ranked Manny above Floyd. I ranked Floyd no. 13 and Manny no. 11 in my ATG list.

Like Kellerman said regarding the whose greater.

"You can argue Floyd, and you can Argue Pacquiao, my main argument is that PAcquiao accomplished greater things than Mayweather and has a resume to put him on above Mayweather. While in terms of head 2 head Floyd beat him, but because Floyd is the natural bigger man, he has certain advantages to why he will likely beat Pacquiao."

Ridiculous. Using this argument, Manny accomplished more than all the guys Floyd accomplished more than as well yet people don't rank Floyd ahead of them or Manny ahead of them. He also lost wide and clear to Floyd.

The people who do that are not serious or credible and if you treat them as such, you will get the kind of over rated responses that you feel are unfair. You can't ask people to be fair if you allow others not to be.

Come on dude, Max said that because he worked for HBO and Manny is an HBO fighter. When Paulie says things about Manny, you and others are quick to point out who Paulie is employed by. Do the same here.

Look, it doesn't matter to me because I can always go to any rankings of fighters and Floyd always comes in ahead of Manny and this was before he beat him so decisively. Same thing happens when Floyd fans try to put him above SRL-you get backlash.

[Thraxox]

Ridiculous. Using this argument, Manny accomplished more than all the guys Floyd accomplished more than as well yet people don't rank Floyd ahead of them or Manny ahead of them. He also lost wide and clear to Floyd.

The people who do that are not serious or credible and if you treat them as such, you will get the kind of over rated responses that you feel are unfair. You can't ask people to be fair if you allow others not to be.

Come on dude, Max said that because he worked for HBO and Manny is an HBO fighter. When Paulie says things about Manny, you and others are quick to point out who Paulie is employed by. Do the same here.

Look, it doesn't matter to me because I can always go to any rankings of fighters and Floyd always comes in ahead of Manny and this was before he beat him so decisively. Same thing happens when Floyd fans try to put him above SRL-you get backlash.

You didn't answer anything but rather just gone into a rant "ridiculous this" and "ridiculous that" without actually addressing my comment.

[The Big Dunn]

Same thing could be said About Floyd when he was with Arum. All of fighters legacy under Arum will be null and void if that is the case.

Let's not rewrite history. Floyd was a no name that wasn't filling arenas. He had to earn his way. You can argue he got to the front of the line at LW with Castillo, yes. He certainly didn't get to the front of the line at SFW, JWW, WW. He had to wait a while to get ODH.

Obviously post ODH he was in a completely different position.

[The Big Dunn]

You didn't answer anything but rather just gone into a rant "ridiculous this" and "ridiculous that" without actually addressing my comment.

I did address your comment in the 1st paragraph. Maybe you didn't read t carefully.

In the 2nd paragraph I make it clear that anyone that says Manny is ahead of Floyd isn't credible and I gave reasons why.

In the 3rd paragraph I address what you posted Max said.

[Thraxox]

Let's not rewrite history. Floyd was a no name that wasn't filling arenas. He had to earn his way. You can argue he got to the front of the line at LW with Castillo, yes. He certainly didn't get to the front of the line at SFW, JWW, WW. He had to wait a while to get ODH.

Obviously post ODH he was in a completely different position.

Let's not rewrite history either. Look at the competition that Pacquiao had gone thorough in the weight class you mentioned.


135 (david Diaz, B-level not a very good win, guerrero equivalent.) 140 (Hatton, was coming off from an impressive win against Malinaggi, thought to be completely recovered from the Mayweather fight) 147 (Miguel Cotto, fought at 146 in the clottey fight recently. )

[Thraxox]

I did address your comment in the 1st paragraph. Maybe you didn't read t carefully.

In the 2nd paragraph I make it clear that anyone that says Manny is ahead of Floyd isn't credible and I gave reasons why.

In the 3rd paragraph I address what you posted Max said.

Actually you didn't address anything. You created a strawman.

In the 2nd paragraph you didn't address anything either. You talked about ridiculous crediblity, and how people will ridicule you if you put Manny above floyd, and how I am not being fair.

3rd. You missed my point, I never pointed Max as an authority to why Pacquiao is greater, but rather quoting Max to what the argument is.

[The Big Dunn]

Let's not rewrite history either. Look at the competition that Pacquiao had gone thorough in the weight class you mentioned.


135 (david Diaz, B-level not a very good win, guerrero equivalent.) 140 (Hatton, was coming off from an impressive win against Malinaggi, thought to be completely recovered from the Mayweather fight) 147 (Miguel Cotto, fought at 146 in the clottey fight recently. )

Diaz was an Arum guy at 135. Cotto, arum guy, made to fight at 146. Margs, Arum guy, fight at 151 when Manny never fought at 154 and Margs was 0-1-1 at the weight. I am not rewriting history.

Actually you didn't address anything. You created a strawman.

In the 2nd paragraph you didn't address anything either. You talked about ridiculous crediblity, and how people will ridicule you if you put Manny above floyd.

3rd. You missed my point, I never pointed Max as an authority to why Pacquiao is greater, but rather quoting Max to what the argument is.

Strawman has become a word du jour here on NSB. my point is simple. You said Manny accomplished more than Floyd so you could see why people think he is better.

My response was I don't buy it because Floyd has accomplished more than other guys and people do not rank him ahead of them. Also, Manny has accomplished more than other people but those same people will not rank Manny ahead of those guys either.

It's clear the "accomplishment" argument is only used when its Manny and Floyd being compared and not in other circumstances, which makes it invalid and highly problematic.

I know what you did-In response to the quote, I noted the bias Max has to frame his comment. I then compared it to another announcer who says the opposite about Manny and how his bias frames those criticisms.

[Thraxox]

Diaz was an Arum guy at 135. Cotto, arum guy, made to fight at 146. Margs, Arum guy, fight at 151 when Manny never fought at 154 and Margs was 0-1-1 at the weight. I am not rewriting history.



Strawman has become a word du jour here on NSB. my point is simple. You said Manny accomplished more than Floyd so you could see why people think he is better.

My response was I don't buy it because Floyd has accomplished more than other guys and people do not rank him ahead of them. Also, Manny has accomplished more than other people but those same people will not rank Manny ahead of those guys either.

It's clear the "accomplishment" argument is only used when its Manny and Floyd being compared and not in other circumstances, which makes it invalid and highly problematic.

I know what you did-In response to the quote, I noted the bias Max has to frame his comment. I then compared it to another announcer who says the opposite about Manny and how his bias frames those criticisms.

It's clear the "accomplishment" argument is only used when its Manny and Floyd being compared and not in other circumstances, which makes it invalid and highly problematic.

Wrong, that has been used to argue why Roberto Duran is greater than SRL, why Chavez is greater than Whitaker, why Louis is greater than Marciano.

135. Cotto, arum guy, made to fight at 146. Margs, Arum guy, fight at 151 when Manny never fought at 154 and Margs was 0-1-1 at the weight.

Diaz didn't take a dive. Cotto didn't take a dive. Margarito didn't take a dive. They all accepted the circumstance of the fight and the negotiations, they fought and were beaten

It's clear the "accomplishment" argument is only used when its Manny and Floyd being compared and not in other circumstances, which makes it invalid and highly problematic.

Adressed this.

Strawman has become a word du jour here on NSB. my point is simple. You said Manny accomplished more than Floyd so you could see why people think he is better.

Strawman is a fallacy that is giving the impression of refuting my argument which I didn't advance. You argued my argument is mute because Many fighters accomplish things that floyd didn't do, yet they are not ranked over or under, I never said that therefore It is a strawman fallacy. My argument is because Pacquiao and Floyd are in the same Era their accomplishments can be compared, Floyd beat Paccquiao head 2 head, but Pacquiao accomplished far more things thn floyd therefore that is enough to override the victory in terms of legacy. You did not understand my argument.

My response was I don't buy it because Floyd has accomplished more than other guys and people do not rank him ahead of them. Also, Manny has accomplished more than other people but those same people will not rank Manny ahead of those guys either.

Manny and Floyd are in the same generation, therefore their accomplishment is compared since they are in the same era and in the same race.