The biggest fight for Top Rank this year?

[Eff Pandas]

Have you seen what they paid Molina & Diaz? Diaz is getting less than Molina. He told Dibella don't worry about the extra $50k just make the fight. Porter isn't fighting for $300k when Crawford doesn't have a title at 147, nor should he. HBO isn't paying for Porter. Bob lost money on Crawford v. Postol because they both were his fighters. He's not about to lose money on a PPV with another person's fighter.

If Crawford fights and beats Manny then he's a star and can do PPV's against other PBC welterweights. He has to fight Manny first.

Then Arum, Crawford & Manny are all gonna be holding their ****s for a long a$$ time. Cuz Arum won't be able to make Manny vs Crawford cuz THAT fight will lose more money cuz no one knows who the f#ck Crawford is & half the people who care about Manny still do after his less than stellar road lately.

I think they gotta build up Crawford some kinda way besides the police blotter & the easiest way is moving up to 147 & fighting the best PBC guy he can fight.

And its not like PBC isn't uncool with throwing guys on HBO or HBO PPV in a risky fight & I suspect Crawford beats most of PBC's 147 roster except Thurman, but it'll still be a risk for Arum to take just a measured one.

Cuz the main thing I don't see happening is Manny bending on subpar money from what he used to get for whats a situation where clearly his own promoter is trying to hijack his legacy to build up Crawford's legacy.

[Eff Pandas]

it would be nice if they fought top guys from outside more often

I definitely agree with this in theory, BUT in practice whats the actual upside logic vs the risk of doing so?

I think Arum is nothing if not a logical guy & that being the case its ALWAYS better to do in house matchups in regards to your own bottom line. And the way boxing is setup with individual brands, TR, GBP, HBO, PBC, etc, all you should care about is your own brand cuz boxing is too big for you to care about all that other bs.

I mean why do I wanna risk my bronze medalist vs some other promotions undefeated guy who I know is pretty good & maybe has a 45% chance of beating my bronze medalist when I can match up my guy in house vs some guy who doesn't suck himself, but only has a 30% chance of beating my bronze medalist although regardless of who wins I got 100% of the action.

Its like hedging a bet. If I can bet on a guy I think is going to win & he does win...f#ck yea man I'm on top of the world, but if my guy loses than everything sucks. If I can bet on both guys & secure a W whoever wins even if the profit is more modest its a much better overall business strategy for my company.

And don't get it twisted I'm not so much defending Arum as saying its probably game theory optimal in the long game that is boxing to hedge as much as humanly possible to secure profit as often as possible vs rolling the dice.

This is sorta one of the bigger reasons I think promoters are one of the worse evils in boxing & why boxing needs to entirely re-structure how the sport operates cuz an every man for themselves structure for the sport never has anyone pushing forward the sport of boxing over all else.

[Motorcity Cobra]

Then Arum, Crawford & Manny are all gonna be holding their ****s for a long a$$ time. Cuz Arum won't be able to make Manny vs Crawford cuz THAT fight will lose more money cuz no one knows who the f#ck Crawford is & half the people who care about Manny still do after his less than stellar road lately.

I think they gotta build up Crawford some kinda way besides the police blotter & the easiest way is moving up to 147 & fighting the best PBC guy he can fight.

And its not like PBC isn't uncool with throwing guys on HBO or HBO PPV in a risky fight & I suspect Crawford beats most of PBC's 147 roster except Thurman, but it'll still be a risk for Arum to take just a measured one.

Cuz the main thing I don't see happening is Manny bending on subpar money from what he used to get for whats a situation where clearly his own promoter is trying to hijack his legacy to build up Crawford's legacy.

PBC has no problem letting their guys fight on HBO. They've let their second teir guys like Molina, Wade, & Diaz, fight on HBO. And they've let their top tier guys fight on HBO like Khan & Jacobs. The difference is their top tier guys have fought on PPV because HBO wouldn't pay their purses to fight on regular HBO. So the promoters had to come out of their pockets.

Do you think HBO is going to pay for Porter, Garcia, or Thurman on regular HBO? Do you think Bob is going to come out of his pocket to pay those guys to put it on PPV when he doesn't have options on those guys? He got options on Diaz and that's regular HBO with them paying a license fee.

Crawford will do his highest PPV numbers against Manny. If he beats Manny then he'll be about to do the numbers that'll get Porter, Garcia, and Thurman on PPV. But even then I doubt Bob will make those fights. He doesn't put his stars in 50/50 fights outside of Top Rank unless it's a mandatory. And as long as his fighters have the WBO belt Bob decides the rankings and Mandatory

[The Gambler1981]

I definitely agree with this in theory, BUT in practice whats the actual upside logic vs the risk of doing so?

I think Arum is nothing if not a logical guy & that being the case its ALWAYS better to do in house matchups in regards to your own bottom line. And the way boxing is setup with individual brands, TR, GBP, HBO, PBC, etc, all you should care about is your own brand cuz boxing is too big for you to care about all that other bs.

I mean why do I wanna risk my bronze medalist vs some other promotions undefeated guy who I know is pretty good & maybe has a 45% chance of beating my bronze medalist when I can match up my guy in house vs some guy who doesn't suck himself, but only has a 30% chance of beating my bronze medalist although regardless of who wins I got 100% of the action.

Its like hedging a bet. If I can bet on a guy I think is going to win & he does win...f#ck yea man I'm on top of the world, but if my guy loses than everything sucks. If I can bet on both guys & secure a W whoever wins even if the profit is more modest its a much better overall business strategy for my company.

And don't get it twisted I'm not so much defending Arum as saying its probably game theory optimal in the long game that is boxing to hedge as much as humanly possible to secure profit as often as possible vs rolling the dice.

This is sorta one of the bigger reasons I think promoters are one of the worse evils in boxing & why boxing needs to entirely re-structure how the sport operates cuz an every man for themselves structure for the sport never has anyone pushing forward the sport of boxing over all else.

There is no logic is taking a 50/50 opportunity or worse until the money is at least twice as good as the next best offer and likely more depending on the kind of long term financial damage a loss could incur. Plus most people don't know the difference anyway between a real guy and a guy with a padded record.

Simple economics, no one is going to risk intentionally harming their interests unless it is worth it or needs to be done. Everyone acting in their own best interest is cool and usually works pretty well but in the same industry where everyone wants the exact same thing it can't work like that because someone eventually has to lose. Promoters have to be willing to risk that or they are not really living up to their end of the agreement, fighters fight, managers look after the fighters interests and promoters take the risk of putting on the events.

[KillaCamNZ]

Wonder if Arum will enter the purse bid for Parker/Fury, think Warrens gunna go big for it this time, doubt itll go to New Zealand again, can it be paired with Flanagan/Verdejo? Whoever wins

Will be interesting to see the legalities around this. Camp Fury is trumpeting another purse bid, but a WBO official has already come out and said the initial purse bid stands and that must be met.

Which makes sense - otherwise, everyone who lost a purse bid first time round, would just pull out of the fight (like Hughie) and go for round 2.

[Eff Pandas]

Plus most people don't know the difference anyway between a real guy and a guy with a padded record.

Ain't that the truth lol.

Everyone acting in their own best interest is cool and usually works pretty well but in the same industry where everyone wants the exact same thing it can't work like that because someone eventually has to lose. Promoters have to be willing to risk that or they are not really living up to their end of the agreement, fighters fight, managers look after the fighters interests and promoters take the risk of putting on the events.

Is there an agreement doe? A promoters job isn't even just putting on a show anymore in my eyes. When it changed I'm not exactly sure, but I know when I watch old fights I either understand fighters to be their own man, deciding their fate via a manager who'll find a promoter to put the fight on or a promoter making a offer for one particular fight. Now a fighter is linked up with a promoter as their main relationship on the business side of boxing & managers seem to have taken a back seat, well outside of a guy like Haymon anyway.

The promoter today kinda becomes a co-manager or the manager these days when he has a long term deal with a guy. He gots skin in the game on the promoter putting on the events, but also skin in the game on the fighter side should he win or lose. And if you match up you guy for losing longer its likely going to be good for you.

Idk that's kinda how I see how things working today & I think its a problem in the sport. And until that dynamic changes idk how it even makes sense that boxing has elite level fights as often as it should when a promoters most profitable long term move is to "hedge" on multiple fighters or lower risk opponents over ******** on your guy happens to be #1 & #1 for a long time.

[sicko]

The Sports is moving forward without Arum, Pacquiao and Mayweather while many fans thought this was impossible well it is happening and it is happening much faster than I expected but the transitioning to a New ERA is moving quickly and honestly I'm GLADS Arum, Pacquiao, Mayweather are not part of it to ruin this momentum with the Politics and Greed BS

Hopefully Canelo vs GGG Delivers! It is boxing it is going to have its ups and downs but the future looks great for the sport Post Mayweather, Pacquiao ERA. Next big fight is Potentially Joshua vs Wilder hopefully both keep winning and we get that Mega Showdown As Well!

[Eff Pandas]

Do you think HBO is going to pay for Porter, Garcia, or Thurman on regular HBO? Do you think Bob is going to come out of his pocket to pay those guys to put it on PPV when he doesn't have options on those guys?

I don't see why it wouldn't be doable. I'm sure Bob gots massive stats on who buys or doesn't buy PPV's & pays guys guarantees that match up with expectations to insure he doesn't lose money.

Then he can setup a payscale for a bonus based on how well the PPV sells. When its his own guys on both sides or as massive A sides like the smaller PPV he just did he can make the upside better for the fighters cuz he's vested in those guys. For a higher name PBC guy he'd just need to adjust the payouts accordingly & I don't see why he couldn't give Porter or even Broner (not that he'd accept) a 1.5M gtd with points on the backside.

Crawford will do his highest PPV numbers against Manny. If he beats Manny then he'll be about to do the numbers that'll get Porter, Garcia, and Thurman on PPV.

Well yea of course Crawford vs Manny does the biggest numbers of any of those fights. But I don't see why fighting PBC guys doesn't make sense before Manny. Seems like he could go either way in theory.

My stance isn't about PBC guys so much as Manny. I think Manny knows the score & he's not gonna be about this fight with Crawford til it gets him a good payday or a payday like Manny is accustomed to, that's good although not necessarily the $25M/gtd he used to get, to sell off his remaining legacy/value.

And that being the case Crawford needs to increase his own profile to make this fight a fight Manny will accept now instead of 2 years from now when he's more desperate for a final boxing payday, if he gets more desperate & doesn't just retire. And for my money the easiest options at enhancing his own profile is a win over a guy like Shawn Porter, but I'm sure there are other roads. Thing is he's not getting Manny til HE does something more or Manny gets a couple years older & the W means less.

But even then I doubt Bob will make those fights. He doesn't put his stars in 50/50 fights outside of Top Rank unless it's a mandatory.

Don't disagree with you there historically, but Bob probably has less power in the game then he's had in awhile. He's got a not so great relationship with HBO. The TruTV thing crapped the bed. I think his only regular secure TV situation is the UniMas cards + Crawford with HBO. I mean HBO said nah at his recent PPV of young sellable guys ffs & that Oscar Valdez fight screamed HBO to me yet they still passed. If anyone needs to consider some different options & look into new relationships then normal its Bob.

[bigdunny1]

Top rank has a decent roster they just not putting those guys in with any other top fighters from rival promoters/advisers. I truly think Crawford will be the latest top rank fighter to defect and sign with haymon. If he can't get arum to deliver Manny and soon I see him bouncing to fight the guys in haymon stable.

[Randall Cunning]

Will be interesting to see the legalities around this. Camp Fury is trumpeting another purse bid, but a WBO official has already come out and said the initial purse bid stands and that must be met.

Which makes sense - otherwise, everyone who lost a purse bid first time round, would just pull out of the fight (like Hughie) and go for round 2.

Thought I read something about them having to produce a note from a doctor, lol, like when you take a shady few sick days off work.