Prime Iron Mike versus Joshua or Wilder today

[Mr Objecitivity]

1) yeah, mike was one of a kind. just not a great one of a kind.

2) you created an award for mike; ''the best lil hw ever (if you ignore the FACT he NEVER beat a LEGITIMATE hw)''

3) cause tua isnt known for KILLING BUMS !!!!!! only mike is skilled enough to do that !!!!! you go by what actually happened and turn around to make excuses for why things HAPPENED the way they did......tua has an easier time with mikes resume than vice versa.

4) are you really trying to compare their resumes ?!?!?!? from ruiz on, check it out.

5) what im saying is mike didnt beat anyone a number of mediocre guys couldnt have beaten, when he fought them. morrison, hipp, tua, holy, bowe, ruiz, ike....all would have been the youngest hw champ had they been FORTUNATE enough to have the chance mike did.

6)

you created an award for mike; ''the best lil hw ever (if you ignore the FACT he NEVER beat a LEGITIMATE hw)''

Define 'legitimate' heavyweight!

Secondly, by accomplishments, it is a FACT that Mike Tyson is the greatest heavyweight for his size. I'm just stating facts, not stating awards. Even if his opposition were poor, he still beat them and accomplished things which nobody else his own size accomplished.

cause tua isnt known for [B][U]KILLING BUMS

I'm not aware of any boxer David Tua or Mike Tyson 'killed' during a boxing match. So feel free to provide evidence.

Secondly, David Tua himself has beaten his own fair share of bummy opponents too (boxers who have less than 12 fights in their whole career or have lost 25% or more of fights of their Win Loss Career Record).

you go by what actually happened and turn around to make excuses for why things HAPPENED the way they did

What excuses?

tua has an easier time with mikes resume than vice versa.

Pure speculation! That might or might not be true. However, unless he actually proved it by doing those things, it remains speculation and not fact! Factually, Mike Tyson's accomplishments at heavyweight > David Tua's accomplishments at heavyweight no matter how hard you try to make 'excuses' for why Mike Tyson's accomplishments are as great as they are (relative to his own size).

are you really trying to compare their resumes ?!?!?!? from ruiz on, check it out.

I have! Not too impressed. Which of David Tua's average opponents THAT HE BEAT are that much more impressive than Mike Tyson's average opponents THAT HE BEAT? Can't see none! Both fought similar caliber of opposition and both either did equally good or Mike Tyson did better.

Bear in mind, I actually believe David Tua's accomplishments at heavyweight (relative to his size) might be second to Mike Tyson's though.

what im saying is mike didnt beat anyone a number of mediocre guys couldnt have beaten, when he fought them. morrison, hipp, tua, holy, bowe, ruiz, ike....all would have been the youngest hw champ had they been FORTUNATE enough to have the chance mike did.

The only relevant boxer in that list is David Tua as he is the only boxer similar to Mike Tyson in size. So all of those others boxers are irrelevant. I'm not even arguing Mike Tyson is greater than them. My argument all along was: MIKE TYSON'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS AT MODERN HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING IS GREATER THAN ANYTHING ANY OTHER BOXER HIS OWN SIZE (IN HEIGHT, WEIGHT AND REACH) ACCOMPLISHED. That's a fact!

Could David Tua have accomplished what Mike Tyson did? Maybe, maybe not! Nobody knows for sure. Fact is, he hasn't and Mike Tyson has. So it remains purely speculation for David Tua.

Also, there's enough evidence to suggest that David Tua wouldn't have been able to beat some of the boxers Mike Tyson beat. Larry Holmes would be for starters. David Tua had horrible foot speed, ability to close the distance and the ability to cut the ring off. There's every chance Larry Holmes decisions David Tua, just like an even older Larry Holmes decisioned Eric Esch (when he was even more past his best and even worse and even older than when he lost to Mike Tyson). Tony Tucker could've very likely have done the same thing to David Tua. David Tua, even at his best struggled even more than Mike Tyson against taller boxers who boxed tall from the outside. Any objective viewer could see a peak Mike Tyson had superior speed overall to David Tua. So no, it's not a foregone conclusion at all that David Tua could've accomplished what Mike Tyson did had he fought the same opponents.

[Elroy The Great]

Define 'legitimate' heavyweight!

Secondly, by accomplishments, it is a FACT that Mike Tyson is the greatest heavyweight for his size. I'm just stating facts, not stating awards. Even if his opposition were poor, he still beat them and accomplished things which nobody else his own size accomplished.



I'm not aware of any boxer David Tua or Mike Tyson 'killed' during a boxing match. So feel free to provide evidence.

Secondly, David Tua himself has beaten his own fair share of bummy opponents too (boxers who have less than 12 fights in their whole career or have lost 25% or more of fights of their Win Loss Career Record).



What excuses?



Pure speculation! That might or might not be true. However, unless he actually proved it by doing those things, it remains speculation and not fact! Factually, Mike Tyson's accomplishments at heavyweight > David Tua's accomplishments at heavyweight no matter how hard you try to make 'excuses' for why Mike Tyson's accomplishments are as great as they are (relative to his own size).



I have! Not too impressed. Which of David Tua's average opponents THAT HE BEAT are that much more impressive than Mike Tyson's average opponents THAT HE BEAT? Can't see none! Both fought similar caliber of opposition and both either did equally good or Mike Tyson did better.

Bear in mind, I actually believe David Tua's accomplishments at heavyweight (relative to his size) might be second to Mike Tyson's though.



The only relevant boxer in that list is David Tua as he is the only boxer similar to Mike Tyson in size. So all of those others boxers are irrelevant. I'm not even arguing Mike Tyson is greater than them. My argument all along was: MIKE TYSON'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS AT MODERN HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING IS GREATER THAN ANYTHING ANY OTHER BOXER HIS OWN SIZE (IN HEIGHT, WEIGHT AND REACH) ACCOMPLISHED. That's a fact!

Could David Tua have accomplished what Mike Tyson did? Maybe, maybe not! Nobody knows for sure. Fact is, he hasn't and Mike Tyson has. So it remains purely speculation for David Tua.

Also, there's enough evidence to suggest that David Tua wouldn't have been able to beat some of the boxers Mike Tyson beat. Larry Holmes would be for starters. David Tua had horrible foot speed, ability to close the distance and the ability to cut the ring off. There's every chance Larry Holmes decisions David Tua, just like an even older Larry Holmes decisioned Eric Esch (when he was even more past his best and even worse and even older than when he lost to Mike Tyson). Tony Tucker could've very likely have done the same thing to David Tua. David Tua, even at his best struggled even more than Mike Tyson against taller boxers who boxed tall from the outside. Any objective viewer could see a peak Mike Tyson had superior speed overall to David Tua. So no, it's not a foregone conclusion at all that David Tua could've accomplished what Mike Tyson did had he fought the same opponents.

= a more sensible debater

have a good day trying to convince someone of how great tyson was. im sure every tyson fan will agree with you. btw, what suddenly brought this on pov (DO NOT ANSWER....RHETORICAL AF) ????

[juggernaut666]

Define 'legitimate' heavyweight!

Secondly, by accomplishments, it is a FACT that Mike Tyson is the greatest heavyweight for his size. I'm just stating facts, not stating awards. Even if his opposition were poor, he still beat them and accomplished things which nobody else his own size accomplished.



I'm not aware of any boxer David Tua or Mike Tyson 'killed' during a boxing match. So feel free to provide evidence.

Secondly, David Tua himself has beaten his own fair share of bummy opponents too (boxers who have less than 12 fights in their whole career or have lost 25% or more of fights of their Win Loss Career Record).



What excuses?



Pure speculation! That might or might not be true. However, unless he actually proved it by doing those things, it remains speculation and not fact! Factually, Mike Tyson's accomplishments at heavyweight > David Tua's accomplishments at heavyweight no matter how hard you try to make 'excuses' for why Mike Tyson's accomplishments are as great as they are (relative to his own size).



I have! Not too impressed. Which of David Tua's average opponents THAT HE BEAT are that much more impressive than Mike Tyson's average opponents THAT HE BEAT? Can't see none! Both fought similar caliber of opposition and both either did equally good or Mike Tyson did better.

Bear in mind, I actually believe David Tua's accomplishments at heavyweight (relative to his size) might be second to Mike Tyson's though.



The only relevant boxer in that list is David Tua as he is the only boxer similar to Mike Tyson in size. So all of those others boxers are irrelevant. I'm not even arguing Mike Tyson is greater than them. My argument all along was: MIKE TYSON'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS AT MODERN HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING IS GREATER THAN ANYTHING ANY OTHER BOXER HIS OWN SIZE (IN HEIGHT, WEIGHT AND REACH) ACCOMPLISHED. That's a fact!

Could David Tua have accomplished what Mike Tyson did? Maybe, maybe not! Nobody knows for sure. Fact is, he hasn't and Mike Tyson has. So it remains purely speculation for David Tua.

Also, there's enough evidence to suggest that David Tua wouldn't have been able to beat some of the boxers Mike Tyson beat. Larry Holmes would be for starters. David Tua had horrible foot speed, ability to close the distance and the ability to cut the ring off. There's every chance Larry Holmes decisions David Tua, just like an even older Larry Holmes decisioned Eric Esch (when he was even more past his best and even worse and even older than when he lost to Mike Tyson). Tony Tucker could've very likely have done the same thing to David Tua. David Tua, even at his best struggled even more than Mike Tyson against taller boxers who boxed tall from the outside. Any objective viewer could see a peak Mike Tyson had superior speed overall to David Tua. So no, it's not a foregone conclusion at all that David Tua could've accomplished what Mike Tyson did had he fought the same opponents.

It wouldn't matter if Tua defeated all the guys Tyson did he wouldn't have done it so easily . Put stationary Tua with no head movent in with 80's Tyson its a wrap . NO fighter would have defeated Tyson no matter size just standing in front of him ,he would be one of Tysons more dangerous opponents but also one of the easiest without having to cut the ring off and counter punch under long range fighters running away at distance .

Tyson would never been out boxed by anyone who couldn't punch ,imagine him losing to Byrd ? I suspect Tucker /Ruddock / Holmes at least 3 would defeat Tua due to his limitations and style .

Prime Tyson had the abilities to defeat anyone ,throw the 90's guys in the 80's they are going to have a very rough era . Only Bowe and Lewis stand the best chance and ive already made a solid case why they lose . Fans really dont look at skills in itself ,they look at resume which has little to do with H2H match ups.

Guys like Tucker and Smith had to hold on for dear life , Smith could have been DQ'd ,you CANNOT use this as evidence that Tyson could NOT k.o them . Tyson also doesnt need to K.O everyone ,why is it if he doesnt knock someone out hes fixated on that hes limited ? Makes no sense.

[Elroy The Great]

berbick........thomas........smith........tucker.. .....jfc, the 4 stooges

[Mr Objecitivity]

= a more sensible debater

have a good day trying to convince someone of how great tyson was. im sure every tyson fan will agree with you. btw, what suddenly brought this on pov (DO NOT ANSWER....RHETORICAL AF) ????

have a good day trying to convince someone of how great tyson was.

In fact, you will find that I am one of the most balanced individuals when it comes to Mike Tyson. I know exactly where his limitations lie / are. At the same time, I also acknowledge his greatness.

With Mike Tyson, it's either individuals almost always underrating and overlooking his greatness / accomplishments or simply overrating and over blowing Mike Tyson's capabilities out of proportion.

I am one of Mike Tyson's biggest fans and even I will admit that there are certain boxers Mike Tyson had almost no chances against, just based on objectivity and facts. At the same time, I give credit where it's due.

have a good day trying to convince someone of how great tyson was.

Sure, the facts speak for themselves.

btw, what suddenly brought this on pov (DO NOT ANSWER....RHETORICAL AF) ????

POV?

[Mr Objecitivity]

It wouldn't matter if Tua defeated all the guys Tyson did he wouldn't have done it so easily . Put stationary Tua with no head movent in with 80's Tyson its a wrap . NO fighter would have defeated Tyson no matter size just standing in front of him ,he would be one of Tysons more dangerous opponents but also one of the easiest without having to cut the ring off and counter punch under long range fighters running away at distance .

Tyson would never been out boxed by anyone who couldn't punch ,imagine him losing to Byrd ? I suspect Tucker /Ruddock / Holmes at least 3 would defeat Tua due to his limitations and style .

Prime Tyson had the abilities to defeat anyone ,throw the 90's guys in the 80's they are going to have a very rough era . Only Bowe and Lewis stand the best chance and ive already made a solid case why they lose . Fans really dont look at skills in itself ,they look at resume which has little to do with H2H match ups.

I respect your opinion and I agree with most of what you've wrote, except Mike Tyson being able to beat any boxer and especially Lennox Lewis.

I don't believe Mike Tyson has much of a chance against any of the skilled super sized heavyweights (boxers who are above 6 foot 3 and weigh significantly above 230 pounds). I just don't see it! There's no evidence to suggest that Mike Tyson's hardest punches would have much of an effect on such opponents (when it didn't on far inferior opposition that are bums and journeymen in Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride). There is also very little evidence he could outbox Lennox Lewis for a decision with a significant size disadvantage (height and reach). I can't envisage Mike Tyson being able to get close enough to Lennox Lewis or the Klitschko brothers long enough to be much of a threat.

Mike Tyson's boogey opponents = Boxers who are skilled + super heavyweight sized.

I believe Mike Tyson has a greater chance of beating Evander Holyfield due to both being closer in size.

That's just my take on it!

[juggernaut666]

I respect your opinion and I agree with most of what you've wrote, except Mike Tyson being able to beat any boxer and especially Lennox Lewis.

I don't believe Mike Tyson has much of a chance against any of the skilled super sized heavyweights (boxers who are above 6 foot 3 and weigh significantly above 230 pounds). I just don't see it! There's no evidence to suggest that Mike Tyson's hardest punches would have much of an effect on such opponents (when it didn't on far inferior opposition that are bums and journeymen in Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride). There is also very little evidence he could outbox Lennox Lewis for a decision with a significant size disadvantage (height and reach). I can't envisage Mike Tyson being able to get close enough to Lennox Lewis or the Klitschko brothers long enough to be much of a threat.

Mike Tyson's boogey opponents = Boxers who are skilled + super heavyweight sized.

I believe Mike Tyson has a greater chance of beating Evander Holyfield due to both being closer in size.

That's just my take on it!

Your to fixated on knock outs ,,,,Tyson doesnt have to k.o you to batter you for 10/12 rnds . Under Rooney (using LEGIT scoring )he lost about 8 rnds out of around 130 . You CANT penalise him for winning in land slide fights and against some fighting to survive NOT fight ,we know who they are .

Whats being over looked in YOUR thread subject ,is Tyson was fighting top level guys in only his second year as a pro and as a teenager as well practically . Those who dont consider this as well as the skills some guys had at the time really don't know their boxing .

The same guys posting here calling Tyson bum beater than you point out that Tucker PAST his prime took YOUR guy Lewis the distance and PAST prime Tubbs took Bowe the distance ,well you can see you cant actually say Tyson is overated bc it wouldn't make any sense .

It boils down too skills here ,Tyson could punch and even IF i used 90's Tyson ,Ruddock lucked out twice as BOTH fights shouldn't have went past 5 rnds and Tyson is the ONLY guy to ACTUALLY defeat Bruno in LEGIT fashion with no stamina issue ,didnt Bruno outweigh Tyson at what 230 /240 ? Didnt Bruno give Lewis difficulties while Tyson crushed him?

You guys are going over board on the SIZE thing here in THIS instance bc you forgot the MOST important factor around the period IM using.......and thats MOTIVATION . Which was when you got the best Tyson .

Im not saying the top SHW's couldn't win,but anyone not even giving him a chance isn't reality.


"Id rather fight Lewis once a week than fight Tyson once a year " F.Bruno

[Elroy The Great]

In fact, you will find that I am one of the most balanced individuals when it comes to Mike Tyson. I know exactly where his limitations lie / are. At the same time, I also acknowledge his greatness.

With Mike Tyson, it's either individuals almost always underrating and overlooking his greatness / accomplishments or simply overrating and over blowing Mike Tyson's capabilities out of proportion.

I am one of Mike Tyson's biggest fans and even I will admit that there are certain boxers Mike Tyson had almost no chances against, just based on objectivity and facts. At the same time, I give credit where it's due.



Sure, the facts speak for themselves.



POV?

mike tyson and greatness is absurd.
mike tyson and FAMOUS

lucky for him its not called the hall of greatness

[Bad_Guy]

The only heavyweight in history that I can confidently say would beat a young Tyson is Ali. Even then, Tyson would have a chance to land a big shot, especially if Ali partied too much the previous night or something. Tyson's combination of speed, power, and underrated defense would be a problem for anyone.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Your to fixated on knock outs ,,,,Tyson doesnt have to k.o you to batter you for 10/12 rnds . Under Rooney (using LEGIT scoring )he lost about 8 rnds out of around 130 . You CANT penalise him for winning in land slide fights and against some fighting to survive NOT fight ,we know who they are .

Whats being over looked in YOUR thread subject ,is Tyson was fighting top level guys in only his second year as a pro and as a teenager as well practically . Those who dont consider this as well as the skills some guys had at the time really don't know their boxing .

The same guys posting here calling Tyson bum beater than you point out that Tucker PAST his prime took YOUR guy Lewis the distance and PAST prime Tubbs took Bowe the distance ,well you can see you cant actually say Tyson is overated bc it wouldn't make any sense .

It boils down too skills here ,Tyson could punch and even IF i used 90's Tyson ,Ruddock lucked out twice as BOTH fights shouldn't have went past 5 rnds and Tyson is the ONLY guy to ACTUALLY defeat Bruno in LEGIT fashion with no stamina issue ,didnt Bruno outweigh Tyson at what 230 /240 ? Didnt Bruno give Lewis difficulties while Tyson crushed him?

You guys are going over board on the SIZE thing here in THIS instance bc you forgot the MOST important factor around the period IM using.......and thats MOTIVATION . Which was when you got the best Tyson .

Im not saying the top SHW's couldn't win,but anyone not even giving him a chance isn't reality.


"Id rather fight Lewis once a week than fight Tyson once a year " F.Bruno

Firstly, you might be confusing me for the other user 'Elroy The Great'. It is he who accuses Mike Tyson of being overrated and a bum beater, not me. I don't think Mike Tyson is overrated at all (from an objective standpoint) and I also don't like or support Lennox Lewis much. In fact, I'm an even bigger fan of Mike Tyson than Lennox Lewis. Mike Tyson is one of the boxers I respect most for accomplishing what he has with such size discrepancy. I can't emphasize how impressive it is from a P4P and inch for inch perspective. However, I am also a realist too and I acknowledge that Mike Tyson had limitations and where it lie, which was against skillful super sized heavyweights (which is whatLennox Lewis was).

Those other super sized heavyweight boxers Mike Tyson beat were never as skilled as Lennox Lewis or Klitschkos. They were low skilled superheavyweights which Mike Tyson could overcome his lack of size by using his superior skills against, which is something he can't do against Lennox Lewis as Lewis himself was also very skilled. If you're a smaller boxer facing a bigger boxer who was much less skilled than you, you can overcome your size disadvantages by using superior skills. However, if they were the same size but were just as skilled as you were close to your skill level, then you don't stand much of a chance because you can't overcome your size disadvantages using your superior skills because you don't have superior skills to use compared to such an opponent.

I wonder why you claim Ruddock was lucky to last the distance? I didn't see Ruddock ever coming close to getting knocked out by Mike Tyson as he was by Lennox Lewis.

Frank Bruno was an exception. He simply was a boxer who didn't react well to an aggressive assault. If we ignore Frank Bruno, then MOST other heavyweights above 230 pounds (irrespective of skill level) were very difficult for Mike Tyson to KO.

Mike Tyson could certainly punch hard relative to his size. In fact, he and David Tua were the most powerful punches for their height and overall size. However, it's been statistically proven that Mike Tyson's KO percentage decreased more and more as opponents became heavier and taller. Especially if combined with skills as well. Mike Tyson's hardest punches against light bummy opponents (opponents below 220 pounds) like Marvis Frazier was knocking those opponents out cold. The same punches against bummy but heavier opponents (opponents above 230 pounds) like Danny Williams were doing very little damage. Mike Tyson failed to KO Danny Williams with so many flush landed punches but concussed Marvis Frazier in only 30 seconds with his first combo. Size was a big factor to this. I'm not even including skillful big / heavy opponents. Average to below average heavy / big boxers were causing Mike Tyson that much trouble. It becomes even worse if I also include skillful opponents of those sizes.