what was joe calzaghes greatest win....

[robertzimmerman]

So 5'11" Joe needed to move up but not 6'1" Ward. Got it.

What are you talking about?

Why don't you try and take in what I'm saying.

IF Andre had hung around fighting lots of low level guys after the Super Six, with no desire to move up and challenge himself at LHW, then YES, I would have criticised him. But that's not what happened. Again, he hardly fought in 3 years due to injury and promotional issues. But when they were resolved he had a few tune ups before moving up and targeting one of the most dangerous guys at the weight.

Joe walked around at 14 stone, and killed himself to fight in a weak division, knowing full well he couldn't unify.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

He had no real ambition.

Andre fought the best guy out there.

Joe defended his lightly regarded belt against: Veit, Brewer, Salem, Ashira, Pudwell and Mkrtchyan etc.

There's a huge difference between the circumstances of both fighters.

Joe would never have fought guys like Dawson or Kovalev.

He was happy to fight Manfredo, and he targeted Pavlik straight after Lacy, who was then an unknown NABF, MW champ. Also, according to Frank Warren, he was open to fighting someone called Freeman Barr.

Joe deserves to be criticised.

[iamboxing]

Eubank was preparing to fight Mark Prince at LHW, before he got the call to replace Collins.

Oh I see. Thanks.

[robertzimmerman]

Oh I see. Thanks.

No problem.

Eubank was a warrior. And he proved that he still had a lot left in the tank when he fought Joe, and then against Thompson afterwards. But it has to be noted that Eubank was faded and he had poor preparation.

[GhostofDempsey]

What are you talking about?

Why don't you try and take in what I'm saying.

IF Andre had hung around fighting lots of low level guys after the Super Six, with no desire to move up and challenge himself at LHW, then YES, I would have criticised him. But that's not what happened. Again, he hardly fought in 3 years due to injury and promotional issues. But when they were resolved he had a few tune ups before moving up and targeting one of the most dangerous guys at the weight.

Joe walked around at 14 stone, and killed himself to fight in a weak division, knowing full well he couldn't unify.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

He had no real ambition.

Andre fought the best guy out there.

Joe defended his lightly regarded belt against: Veit, Brewer, Salem, Ashira, Pudwell and Mkrtchyan etc.

There's a huge difference between the circumstances of both fighters.

Joe would never have fought guys like Dawson or Kovalev.

He was happy to fight Manfredo, and he targeted Pavlik straight after Lacy, who was then an unknown NABF, MW champ. According to Frank Warren, he was also open to fightimg someone called Freeman Barr.

Joe deserves to be criticised.

You hold Joe to a higher srandard becaise Ward won that over hyped 168 tournament on his home turf of Oakland. Never fought overseas yet people criticize Joe for not traveling to the U.S. until his last two fights. Ward always had the frame to move to 178 sooner but feasted on blown up MW and drained LHWs until moving up himself to beat on journeymen. Got a gift against Kovalev and you think Joe is overrated.

[AddiX]

what does being more active have to do with landing clean punches? he was missing more therefore he deserves to win? that doesnt make too much sense. hopkins made him miss and landed the cleaner shots. i thought that was the point of boxing?

Well, you can't win fights if you don't punch. Landed a few clean punches doesn't erase bring inactive for 95% of every round.

[Doctor_Tenma]

It's Hopkins, Hopkins even at that age was still a far better fighter than Kessler ever was.

[robertzimmerman]

You hold Joe to a higher srandard becaise Ward won that over hyped 168 tournament on his home turf of Oakland. Never fought overseas yet people criticize Joe for not traveling to the U.S. until his last two fights. Ward always had the frame to move to 178 sooner but feasted on blown up MW and drained LHWs until moving up himself to beat on journeymen. Got a gift against Kovalev and you think Joe is overrated.

Everyone's circumstances are different.

You could say that Andre was lucky to have the Super Six tournament. But after he won the tournament, he took a break due to injury. In that time, Froch hammered Bute. Then Andre came back and fought Dawson. Dawson was very highly rated at the time. But unfortunately he was drained. Then Andre hit trouble and hardly fought. However, when his issues were resolved, he ended up fighting Kovalev.

You can't really say that he feasted on MW's and then he beat up on journeyman. That's not fair. Because all of those guys were tune ups due to his circumstances at the time. Those guys were used so he could go on to pursue bigger challenges afterwards. That is not the same as Joe fighting Veit, Ashira, Salem and Mkrtchyan etc, whilst being active in his 30's, without having had a career defining fight beforehand. When Joe was fighting those guys, he hadn't yet fought Lacy, Kessler or Hopkins. At least when Andre was fighting guys like Smith, he'd already beaten Kessler, Froch and Dawson, and again, was using them to shake off the rust. Joe wasn't doing that. He wasn't using guys like Salem and Mkrtchyan due to inactivity to shake off rust. He was just happily fighting them to rack up title defences.

I do have sympathy towards Joe, because he too had a stop-start career due to injuries to his hands. However, he proved time and again with his comments and his actions, that he wasn't overly ambitious. He was more than content to fight low level guys in order to defend his lightly regarded belt.

I'll be honest with you and say: If Joe had been in Andre's position, I don't believe he'd have fought Dawson or eventually moved up to fight Kovalev. I also don't believe if Andre had been in Joe's position, he'd have defended a lightly regarded belt 21 times.

Both fighters are/were great, but one sought out the best, and the other one didn't. It's not that I think Joe was overrated, (not unless I hear someone thinking he'd have beaten Roy at his peak) it's that I know that for all of his talent, he underachieved. Although he had a great career, it could have been better. Unfortunately, his actions have had a negative effect on his ranking and reputation.