James Tony, how great?

**bluepete** · 03-31-2017, 03:28 AM

Fought everyone, iron chin great skills. Yeah, sometimes he came in fat or unfit, but so did Duran. Can't imagine another middle who could stand and fight heavies in the way he didn

**Sgtairborne24** · 03-31-2017, 04:25 AM

I think he's definitely a Modern great. He had a ATG chin and was a slick defensive fighter but in my opinion he lost too many fights in his prime that he shouldn't have and even had one or two "gift" wins in fights that he certainly didn't win. Especially that white dude that beat him in his prime Dave Tiberi. Even Toney admitted he lost that fight. ATGs don't lose fights like that. In my book to be a ATG you have to have the self-discipline throughout your career like a Bernard Hopkins or Mayweather type discipline. Toney came into too many fights either unprepared or just flat out out of shape but when he was on his game he was very tough to beat. If he had a different mental make up then I think he had the talent to be an ATG but unfortunately self-discipline and 110 percent dedication to your craft is definitely a requisite to be an ATG in my book.

**Caught Square** · 03-31-2017, 04:27 AM

Inb4IronDan

**wansen64** · 03-31-2017, 04:40 AM

IMO, James Toney would have held his own with any middleweight in history.

**DumpkinsPlus5** · 03-31-2017, 04:52 AM

All Time Great

**buckfuddy** · 03-31-2017, 05:48 AM

Depends on what do you mean by ATG. Is he on the same level with RJJ for example? No. Was he a top boxer? Yes

**Elroy The Great** · 03-31-2017, 07:20 AM

2 schools of thought....

rate guys like him on their prime only
or
the entirety of their career.

i pick the latter. if a guy wants to wreck their legacy by reaching for that dream, its on them. fight 1-???, they all count. losing to guys that would have gotten ktfo within 10 seconds counts. dont want to hear ''he wasnt prime doe.''

toney is a modern great. if he had any will power and self discipline, easily an ATG.

**therealpugilist** · 03-31-2017, 07:40 AM

Definitely an all time great and a throw back to the old game

He was only 24 with 40+ fights, lineal champion at 160 and ibf titleholder at 168

he resurrected his career after two losses vs Montell Griffin at 175 and picked up a title at 190(Cruiser) in one of the greatest title fights in that division(closet classic).

Sure he wasnt the most disciplined. Most all time greats had early losses, or flat showings in non title fights. Guys Like Kid Gavilan and Sandy Saddler were dominant champions but lost several non-title, stay busy fights

Also whats significant is he is a former middleweight champion and ended his career as a legit top ten contender at heavyweight.

his sublime skills, he won in all types of fashions. All time great for sure

**Last Roman** · 03-31-2017, 07:53 AM

I don't know if the extreme weight gain years add to his legacy or tarnish it

Also the UFC debacle.
But in time those things will fade from memory and we will only remember the insane skill and the guts.

James Tony, how great?