Is It All About Seeing a Strong Fighter Crumble into Weakness?

[Tony Trick-Pony]

You definitely get it.

You see clearly where I am with Lil g.

Search my posts about him.

You will see my problem with him is very much based on fanboys not seeing him accurately.

I can agree with anyone who says he passes the eye test for greatness.

But so did Jeff Lacy at some point. So did David Price at some point.

What has he done to prove it?

And with whom?

The hype IS partly his fault.

And not living up to it is ALL his fault.

So what Quillen didn't want him. So what he couldn't get quality fights at 160.

He is Mr. 154-175, right?

Lots of guys wanted him.

BHop did. Groves did. Dirrell did. Lara did. Canelo did (albeit at Caneloweight). DeGale did. Ward did. Ramirez did. And that's only a partial list.

There were a lot of challenges he could have took that would have had us getting him ready for Canastota RIGHT NOW instead of wondering whether or not he is even an elite fighter after coming off of 2 subpar performances in a row.

Nah, man.

That's HIS FAULT!

As for me, I think GGG is a very solid middleweight and would have done well at junior middle if he hung around there for any decent amount of time. I think he can be a great middleweight. I don't see him being a great super middleweight. His power is great at 160, but I'm not real sure it would carry on up. I think he has excellent skill with his footwork and positioning. Over all, I think GGG is a fighter who could hang with ATGs but whether or not he could beat them will require more proof. If he does beat BJS and Canelo, that will provide me with good evidence that he could handle himself against ATGs. Canelo hits very hard and has excellent creativity with his shots. He'd be a tricky fight for anybody ever at 160. If GGG beats him, then he's solid historically at 160.

Most of the guys you mentioned are at 168 and above. Lara has called him out but at times that seemed beneficial to the Cuban to look like he was calling him out when he wasn't. You can't say the guy hasn't been ducked man. I don't know how many times I read that Cotto shouldn't fight him because that would be suicide. Canelo handed a belt over to him. Martinez wanted nothing to do with him. I mean, the guy wants to unify 160. Boxing definitely needs more unified champions these days. If this were the old days of 8 weight classes, would anybody be complaining about this?

[koolkc107]

Nah man, thats just you hating the GOAT.

Er, you calling Lil g the GOAT immediately shines a light on how little you know about the sport.

But, OK if that makes you feel better about your hero...

[Doctor_Tenma]

It's because we're on a boxing forum that you feel that way, some people overhype fighters, just the way it is. I'm still a fan of Golovkin but his fans are unbearable.

[koolkc107]

As for me, I think GGG is a very solid middleweight and would have done well at junior middle if he hung around there for any decent amount of time. I think he can be a great middleweight. I don't see him being a great super middleweight. His power is great at 160, but I'm not real sure it would carry on up. I think he has excellent skill with his footwork and positioning. Over all, I think GGG is a fighter who could hang with ATGs but whether or not he could beat them will require more proof. If he does beat BJS and Canelo, that will provide me with good evidence that he could handle himself against ATGs. Canelo hits very hard and has excellent creativity with his shots. He'd be a tricky fight for anybody ever at 160. If GGG beats him, then he's solid historically at 160.

Most of the guys you mentioned are at 168 and above. Lara has called him out but at times that seemed beneficial to the Cuban to look like he was calling him out when he wasn't. You can't say the guy hasn't been ducked man. I don't know how many times I read that Cotto shouldn't fight him because that would be suicide. Canelo handed a belt over to him. Martinez wanted nothing to do with him. I mean, the guy wants to unify 160. Boxing definitely needs more unified champions these days. If this were the old days of 8 weight classes, would anybody be complaining about this?

I remember not too long ago when Broner was a monster at lightweight and talked about unifying, everyone was crying about how that didn't mean as much as him challenging himself in higher weights.

Give the Can Man a little credit, he actually answered the call, albeit with mixed results. And no matter what happens, one more belt in one more weight class and he is a shoo-in HOFer

I think the same can be said about Lil g. and what he needs to do.

Lara has been calling him out forever. No way that fight couldn't be made in the 3 or 4 years Erislandy has been mouthing off, especially considering how often Lil g fights.

For every guy that really avoided Lil g, you can name one or two he himself sidestepped.

And as far as him challenging one weight class north, it was Lil g that opened up that door.

Except he never at any time showed himself willing to walk thru it.

If you are going to challenge welterweights, you can fight someone at 155.

If you are going to try and make a fight with Jr at 168, you can try Groves, Froch and Ward there as well.

His legacy depends on him making those type of fights and doing well in them.

Then we can start talking about how great he is or isn't.

[iamboxing]

Broner had it coming when he did the hump thing against Maidana, but Pacquiao flattened on his face was sad and I don't see how GGG's humbleness could make anyone want to see him lose. He's such a classy human being.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

I remember not too long ago when Broner was a monster at lightweight and talked about unifying, everyone was crying about how that didn't mean as much as him challenging himself in higher weights.

Give the Can Man a little credit, he actually answered the call, albeit with mixed results. And no matter what happens, one more belt in one more weight class and he is a shoo-in HOFer

I think the same can be said about Lil g. and what he needs to do.

Lara has been calling him out forever. No way that fight couldn't be made in the 3 or 4 years Erislandy has been mouthing off, especially considering how often Lil g fights.

For every guy that really avoided Lil g, you can name one or two he himself sidestepped.

And as far as him challenging one weight class north, it was Lil g that opened up that door.

Except he never at any time showed himself willing to walk thru it.

If you are going to challenge welterweights, you can fight someone at 155.

If you are going to try and make a fight with Jr at 168, you can try Groves, Froch and Ward there as well.

His legacy depends on him making those type of fights and doing well in them.

Then we can start talking about how great he is or isn't.

Well I wasn't complaining about Broner staying at lightweight and I won't. That's very admirable in my opinion. These days, guys use so many weights and titles to avoid fights and claim to be the best with no proof. Even so, I don't think Broner had the discipline to stay at 135. He fought Vincente Escobedo and outweighed him by quite a bit which I thought was BS at the time but hey. Our sport allows it and so it will go on.

As far as Canelo making the offer and all that, I don't know who to believe to be honest. One day they say one thing and the next day it's something different. Did GGG and Canelo and their teams actually get together or was this just tweets? I mean, I have no idea honestly.

And I'm all for the Lara fight happening. However, shouldn't Lara step up to 160 if he wants the fight? I mean, if I were going to challenge a champion at 160, I'd move to 160 to show I wanted it. He's hanging around at 154 fighting used up Yuri Foreman. Let's see him put his money where his mouth is. If GGG doesn't want to fight at 155, then fine. He doesn't have to. As far as his claim at fight anybody from 154-168, I agree. That was a bad move because he isn't willing to, but I don't knock him for not moving up or down. That's his choice. In the end, he shouldn't have said that if he wasn't going to back it up. Agreed on that.

As far as the Brook fight, didn't GGG try to get a fight with Saunders who wasn't interested and Eubank Jr. who lost his pen and Canelo who refused before he ever signed to fight Brook? I mean, what's he supposed to do? Sit on the shelf? GGG isn't going to do that and he shouldn't. Fighting often keeps him sharper. And Lara should definitely take a page out of that book, fighting once a year against guys like Foreman. I mean, how is he making any kind of statement with that?

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Broner had it coming when he did the hump thing against Maidana, but Pacquiao flattened on his face was sad and I don't see how GGG's humbleness could make anyone want to see him lose. He's such a classy human being.

Agreed and great picture of George, sir.

[mlac]

I really hate seeing great fighters decline. I wish Pac would retire. Glad Floyd retired. Vitali and Calzaghe too.

Seeing Broner get beat was more about seeing someone get humbled and that's another thing entirely. Then, there's the failed cherry pick, which is what Happened to Haye.

Why? even a heavily declined Pac is still debatably the best WW in the world...

[niceyboo3]

Why? even a heavily declined Pac is still debatably the best WW in the world...

This is very much true

[koolkc107]

Well I wasn't complaining about Broner staying at lightweight and I won't. That's very admirable in my opinion. These days, guys use so many weights and titles to avoid fights and claim to be the best with no proof. Even so, I don't think Broner had the discipline to stay at 135. He fought Vincente Escobedo and outweighed him by quite a bit which I thought was BS at the time but hey. Our sport allows it and so it will go on.

As far as Canelo making the offer and all that, I don't know who to believe to be honest. One day they say one thing and the next day it's something different. Did GGG and Canelo and their teams actually get together or was this just tweets? I mean, I have no idea honestly.

And I'm all for the Lara fight happening. However, shouldn't Lara step up to 160 if he wants the fight? I mean, if I were going to challenge a champion at 160, I'd move to 160 to show I wanted it. He's hanging around at 154 fighting used up Yuri Foreman. Let's see him put his money where his mouth is. If GGG doesn't want to fight at 155, then fine. He doesn't have to. As far as his claim at fight anybody from 154-168, I agree. That was a bad move because he isn't willing to, but I don't knock him for not moving up or down. That's his choice. In the end, he shouldn't have said that if he wasn't going to back it up. Agreed on that.

As far as the Brook fight, didn't GGG try to get a fight with Saunders who wasn't interested and Eubank Jr. who lost his pen and Canelo who refused before he ever signed to fight Brook? I mean, what's he supposed to do? Sit on the shelf? GGG isn't going to do that and he shouldn't. Fighting often keeps him sharper. And Lara should definitely take a page out of that book, fighting once a year against guys like Foreman. I mean, how is he making any kind of statement with that?

Yeah, Broner had problems at super featherweight.

But it was at lightweight where the question was stick around or move up. He'd been trying to get Ricky Burns or Miguel Vazquez for a unification with no luck. Broner never showed any sign of not being able to make 135 at that time.

In my opinion, Lil g's window to greatness is beginning to close.

I got no problem at all with him going for 10M if it is actually on the table for Saunders in Kazakhstan.

But if not, his next fight needs to either be Canelo, a rematch with Jacobs, or some other legit challenge.

He doesn't have to take on Ward at 168, and I can even see staying away from a beltholder the first time out at the new weight.

But it has to be someone legit.

Here is the IBO 168 lb rankings.

http://www.iboboxing.com/rankings/168.html

Plenty of names in the top 8 to 10 that are familiar.

And they would be good wins that help better define his legacy.