Lomachenko's & Usyk's historic pro world records now officially recognized!

[Robbie Barrett]

So many world titles nowadays and more divisions, hard to give fighters the same credit as the old ones.

[Pugilisticuffs]

World title are pretty watered down now tbh.

Loma needs better names on his resume than simply picking up titles. Haven't Broner and Guerrero picked up numerous titles across weight divisions?

Yes, they are watered down. But you need all 4 major world titles to become undisputed and it's been that way since 2007, so it's been a decade. You can choose from 4 IBHOF-recognized major alphabet world titles (WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO) or the minor world title (IBO) that some fighters still carry & rep. Let's not forget The Ring Magazine's "Lineal" world title too, their championship policy is a joke.

Loma only has 8 professional fights. Show me a better résumé than his only 8 fights deep. There isn't one. Beating GRJ for the vacant FW WBO title is certainly respectable since Gary went on to become the WBC champ there and was said to have the fastest hands in boxing. He was also a US Olympian and a favorite to medal but never competed because he passed out when trying to make weight.

Roman Martinez wasn't anything special but he was 7 pounds heavier come fight night and experienced. Lomachenko moved up to Junior Lightweight and immediately fought for the WBO title. To answer your question, yes. But Broner, for instance, cherry picked his way there. Lomachenko hasn't. Pedraza was the weakest world champion at SFW/JLW when Lomachenko moved up. The guy should've lost to Edner Cherry in their fight.

[A.K]

Fastest loss entering the pros?????? Hopkins lost his first pro fight, you ignorant fool. Of course you don't like Loma. You are a black racist. If a boxer is white and extremely good like GGG and Loma then you hate them and start 10 threads a day trashing them. Rigo is a great fighter but the majority rate Loma as an even better fighter.

Just cause he trolls Eastern Euro fighters he's black? Nice logic he's obviously Hispanic.

[Loque-san]

I already considered those WSB bouts to be non-professional and figured everyone else did as well. You independent research gets no credit from me.

Pro boxers with less than 15 pro bouts are allowed to fight in the WSB. You can have two pro boxers facing each other. I would not call that a non-professional bout. I consider these WSB bouts as semi-professional.

Back in the day, amateur boxers used to go straight from the amateurs - point-scoring system, headgears, tank tops, 4×2 or 3×3 minute rounds - to the pros. The WSB has offered a lot of boxers a better transition from the amateur to the pro ranks.

[Pugilisticuffs]

Pro boxers with less than 15 pro bouts are allowed to fight in the WSB. You can have two pro boxers facing each other. I would not call that a non-professional bout. I consider these WSB bouts as semi-professional.

Back in the day, amateur boxers used to go straight from the amateurs - point-scoring system, headgears, tank tops, 4×2 or 3×3 minute rounds - to the pros. The WSB has offered a lot of boxers a better transition from the amateur to the pro ranks.

That's what these WSB bouts are, they're semi-pro. That's also what they're billed as. When Lomachenko fought there, for example, he fought 6 times against 5 boxers that were amateurs or "PrAmateurs". None of them were full-fledged pros. AIBA has their own pro banner known as APB, which you probably know. Had Lomachenko or Usyk fought in the APB then their fights would definitely count as full professional fights. They fought in AIBA's AOB and WSB as amateurs and semi-pros.

The WSB is now used as a way to qualify for the Olympics and was used by some boxers for the Games in Rio last year. Some of these boxers were already pros and wanted to compete at the Olympics, so they went through the WSB qualifiers. One amateur from Team USA, Josh Temple, lost at the qualifiers and it counted as a "pro" fight loss on his Fight Fax record so he's now suing USA Boxing and IIRC the ABC as well. He hadn't even turned pro yet.

[Pugilisticuffs]

I already considered those WSB bouts to be non-professional and figured everyone else did as well. You independent research gets no credit from me.

You figured wrong then. This was posted by an 11 year member here in the NSB forum just a few days ago and he has posted even more recently about Lomachenko's WSB fights and the Fight Fax record-keeping dilemma as to what should be considered professional in the official Fight Fax record books. He and others could really benefit from this information.

people need to stop with the 8 fights nonesense though....dude is 28 with 400 am fights and 20 pro fights(fightfax, the official US record keeper and the official record keeper for the World organizations has his record at (18-1 5 KO's)

This is his most recent post about it, today.

i think he will or should considering his amateur history...those quickest to whatever records are dubious at best though....i still dont get how the media is blatantly ignoring that fightfax is the official record keeper for the US and world organizations...

I rest my case.

[-Hyperion-]

I think so too. Some publications were saying that he (Loma) didn't hold the official record for being the fastest man to win a major world title (tied with Muangsurin), or the fastest man to do it in two divisions, and they showed the Fight Fax print out. Fight News did this, for example. Well, it'll now show them separated with the WSB bouts underneath the standard professional boxing matches on his career record from what I understand (that's what the motion was about). They officially don't count anymore meaning Loma is 7-1 in pro boxing and his records will stand. Same with Usyk's record. Usyk is now officially 11-0 in pro boxing. Both had 6 WSB semi-pro bouts with the Ukraine Otamans, a name that Lomachenko picked for their team.

and questioning was the right thing to do..and their fightfax record were the correct ones until this ruling happened.I didnt know this case had actually been settled, so nice for informing me. So now they can officially say those are their records. Those WSB bouts were pro in all the revelant ways but if thats the ruling, thats the ruling.

[FinitoxDinamita]

Rigo > loma.. usyk isnt that impressive

[Pugilisticuffs]

and questioning was the right thing to do..and their fightfax record were the correct ones until this ruling happened.I didnt know this case had actually been settled, so nice for informing me. So now they can officially say those are their records. Those WSB bouts were pro in all the revelant ways but if thats the ruling, thats the ruling.

Listen, I'm not trying to put you on blast or anything. I only quoted your posts to prove to that other poster, Clegg, that WSB bouts are still considered by some, even many, as official pro fights. Questioning is the right thing to do.

There were a number of differences when Lomachenko & Usyk fought in the WSB. Besides being a team league advancing tournament, for instance, they also had Standing 8 "Protection" Counts, which have been in the amateurs forever and haven't been in pro boxing formally since 1998, per the ABC. The gloves that Lomachenko wore were 10 oz and not 8's, which are what the pros wear within his weight range. They were also limited to 5 rounds, unlike the pros where you have 4, 6, 8, 10 & 12 rounders (used to be up to 15 until the 80's).

The "paid" argument is also moot because amateurs have been expressly allowed to be paid by AIBA since 2008. Both Loma & Usyk have been paid since '08. If you want sources for any of this, just ask. I can give them to you right from them directly. Willie Pep used to be a paid amateur as well in Connecticut back when they allowed amateurs to be paid during the Great Depression while other states didn't allow it. The prize money today is up to 100k if you win the Olympics. You also get paid an annual salary, or a monthly stipend, after you win the Olympic Games. AIBA has given out prize money since 2008 for winning several major tournaments that any boxer is entitled to as long as they medal.

[-Hyperion-]

Listen, I'm not trying to put you on blast or anything. I only quoted your posts to prove to that other poster that WSB bouts are still considered by some, even many, as official pro fights. Questioning is the right thing to do.

There were a number of differences when Lomachenko & Usyk fought in the WSB. Besides being a team league advancing tournament, for instance, they also had Standing 8 "Protection" Counts, which have been in the amateurs forever and haven't been in pro boxing formally since 1998, per the ABC. The gloves that Lomachenko wore were 10 oz and not 8's, which are what the pros wear within his weight range. They were also limited to 5 rounds, unlike the pros where you have 4, 6, 8, 10 & 12 rounders (used to be up to 15 until the 80's).

The "paid" argument is also moot because amateurs have been expressly allowed to be paid by AIBA since 2008. Both Loma & Usyk have been paid since '08. If you want sources for any of this, just ask. I can give them to you right from them directly. Willie Pep used to be a paid amateur as well in Connecticut back when they allowed amateurs to be paid during the Great Depression while other states didn't allow it. The prize money today is up to 100k if you win the Olympics. You also get paid an annual salary, or a monthly stipend, after you win the Olympic Games. AIBA has given out prize money since 2008 for winning several major tournaments that any boxer is entitled to as long as they medal.

I know all those differences, thats why i said in all the revelant ways theyre pro fights. Like Doug Fischer said, If it looks like a pro fight, if it’s conducted like a pro fight and if the fighters are paid like pro fighters, then WSB fights are pro fights. WSB fights were at a higher level than your regular record padding early fights....invaluable experience. The ruling is the ruling...before august of last year they were pro fights, now they are not and retroactively, they can claim those records. Not much else to say.