Who has a better resume, Sugar Ray Leonard or Floyd Mayweather?

[djtmal]

Floyd beat more champions than Leonard, won more total fights, was never clearly knocked down whereas Leonard was, and was the unified champion in two weight divisions at the same time when he retired..

Yeah but against who.

[Johnwoo8686]

Yeah but against who.

De La Hoya, Pacquiao, Cotto, Canelo, Marquez, and Mosley were all champions who are probably all going to end up in the hall of fame. And yeah some of them were past their best but so was Hagler and you could argue that welterweight was not Durans best weight class so he wasn't exactly at his best at that weight.

[Reloaded]

Yeah but against who.

Floyd has an over ALL better class except for the 3 ATGs on Rays ledger, if you take Duran Hearns Hagler away Floyd slaughters him .

[djtmal]

[QUOTE=Johnwoo8686;17382090]You point out lists that have Sugar Ray Leonard ahead of Floyd but don't cite any sources.

[B][B]This is an abbreviated list that I just randomly googled. Floyd isn't even in the building:

Ten Greatest Welterweights in Boxing History
1. Sugar Ray Robinson (1940-1965):

2. Sugar Ray Leonard (1977-1997):

3. Henry Armstrong (1931-1945):

4. Thomas Hearns (1977-2006):

6. Kid Gavilan (1943-1958):

7. Joe Walcott (1890-1911):

8. Emile Griffith (1958-1977):

9. Barney Ross (1929-1938):

10. Mickey Walker (1919-1935):



And it's difficult to compare eras because Leonard fought in the 15 round era. If there were 12 rounds back then Leonard would have lost to Hearns the first time around and he really lost the rematch. And as for Floyd fighting past their prime legends, the same could be said for Leonard's win over Hagler, Hagler was past it and Leonard still only got a split decision in a fight many thought he lost.

Sugar Ray TKO Hearns when both were prime is the bottom line. Sugar Ray TKO Hearns trumps Floyd's whole career damn near, and the wins against atg's in Hagler and Duran just close the lid on the subject, and the win on Kalule @ 154 makes it even more solid.
You can't deal in would have and could have. In a tougher era, Sugar Ray has tko'd unanimously decisioned, and split-decisioned all time great fighters. Believe me, if I could say the same thing about Floyd, then the analysis would have to be scrutinized more. This is actually pretty cut and dry.

You're right about one thing, it is comparing apples and oranges. Floyd has the better win streak, better longevity and more title fight wins while Leonard might have the better names on his resume. It's all about what you prefer.

You talking about all-time great fighters, top 10, 20, 30 guys here. Floyd is the best his generation and ranked appropriately, but lets not overrate it here. You can have 100 champs beaten, but if you beat them all, after they been ko'd, or thoroughly thrashed, you lose ground to fighters who beat fellow prime all-time greats. In Sugar Ray's era, there were also fewer champs, so you have to take that into consideration.

But if we are talking about pound for pound, I think the guy who was able to undefeated in 5 weight classes is better than the guy who could not go undefeated in his first weight class.

5 weight classes, and who did Floyd beat, in their prime, that ranks higher than any atg on Sugar's resume. Nobody. Sugar Ray, moved up two divisions and beat Hagler for an undisputed, linear title, that traces back to Robinson, does Floyd have anything like that on his resume? No
You can look at it with rose colored glasses, any way you choose, but it still comes down to who you beat, and when you beat them.

[!! Shawn]

Easily Sugar Ray. His opponents are top 10 p4p all time outside of Wilfred.

Benitez was a monster, and one of the slickest fighters of all time.

The guy just had this instinctive ability to make you miss by millimeters all night long.

Has wins over Duran, Carlos Palomino (HOFer), and razor thin MD loss to Hearns.



He was a great fighter. Easily better than anyone Floyd beat at the time that Leonard fought him.

[djtmal]

Floyd has an over ALL better class except for the 3 ATGs on Rays ledger, if you take Duran Hearns Hagler away Floyd slaughters him .

That is a very big IF, and very speculative.

Lol. Without Duran, and Hagler, Sugar Ray, has a prime, undefeated HOF Benitez on his resume. Benitez, and prime, atg, undefeated Hearns, trumps Floyd whole welterweight resume and below 147 don't even mention it. Add on atg Duran, atg Hagler, and a prime, undefeated Kalule for a 154 strap, Sugar tko'd him. Floyd, split decision over a past it Oscar, and unanimous dec. on a Cotto who had been previously stopped 2X.

[djtmal]

De La Hoya, Pacquiao, Cotto, Canelo, Marquez, and Mosley were all champions who are probably all going to end up in the hall of fame. And yeah some of them were past their best but so was Hagler and you could argue that welterweight was not Durans best weight class so he wasn't exactly at his best at that weight.

Yes and since you cats love to deal with IF's, let me give you one: IF Floyd beat all of those guys you mentioned when they were at their optimum best, this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion

[!! Shawn]

First of all there aren't too many all time great lists right now that have Sugar Ray "way ahead of " Floyd as you say. In fact there are some all time great lists that have Floyd ahead of Sugar Ray. Boxrec's list right now is an example. They have Floyd ahead of Leonard.

Remember, Floyd started at 130 pounds while Ray started at 147 pounds so a hypothetical head to head match up is not the best way to decide who was greater. Looking at who was better pound for pound boxer is a better way to measure the two against one another. Floyd was able to remain undefeated up until his fifth weight class while Leonard could not even stay undefeated even in his first weight class. Leonard suffered his first loss to a guy who's best weight class was 135 pounds.

Floyd beat more champions than Leonard, won more total fights, was never clearly knocked down whereas Leonard was, and was the unified champion in two weight divisions at the same time when he retired. He also had greater longevity. And you can't really compare Floyd to his dad, even Leonard stated himself that Jr' is a much better fighter than Sr. was.

Floyd also didn't fight in the era of 6 ounce horse hair gloves.

[-Hyperion-]

Hearns
Hagler
Duran
Benitez


SRL by slaughter.

[robertzimmerman]

First of all there aren't too many all time great lists right now that have Sugar Ray "way ahead of " Floyd as you say. In fact there are some all time great lists that have Floyd ahead of Sugar Ray. Boxrec's list right now is an example. They have Floyd ahead of Leonard.

Remember, Floyd started at 130 pounds while Ray started at 147 pounds so a hypothetical head to head match up is not the best way to decide who was greater. Looking at who was better pound for pound boxer is a better way to measure the two against one another. Floyd was able to remain undefeated up until his fifth weight class while Leonard could not even stay undefeated even in his first weight class. Leonard suffered his first loss to a guy who's best weight class was 135 pounds.

Floyd beat more champions than Leonard, won more total fights, was never clearly knocked down whereas Leonard was, and was the unified champion in two weight divisions at the same time when he retired. He also had greater longevity. And you can't really compare Floyd to his dad, even Leonard stated himself that Jr' is a much better fighter than Sr. was.

It's always hard to compare 2 different fighters, from 2 different eras, because obviously their circumstances were so different.

Yes, Floyd remained undefeated fighting in his 5th weight class, whereas Ray lost in his 1st weight class. But what does that tell us? Ray lost to a peak Roberto Duran, who's one of the greatest fighters who's ever lived. Floyd would never have retired unbeaten had he have taken on the challenges that Ray did. If you fight higher calibre fighters, there's always a chance you're going to get beat or knocked down. At the end of the day, Floyd just has the better statistics on paper. But statistics don't allow for circumstances.