Everyone Wants to Talk About Floyd's IV - What About Pac-Monster's Toradol Abuse???

[travestyny]

So its YOU that needs to explain to me all that.

Welcome back. Hope you enjoyed Boracay. I really like it there.

Here's the thing. You're not going to get what I'm saying to you unless some other people come on board to tell you that you are wrong. This is why I asked you to go to the Thunderdome or make a new thread. You refuse. My hunch is that you refuse because deep down you know you are wrong. I don't know why you want to continue bickering about this thing. I can type to you until my fingers fall off about why you are wrong, and you still won't get it. I'll try again...hopefully for the last time.

Initially you bring up that you cannot compare studies that discuss Creatinine levels with Specific Gravity levels but then that is all you want to do when comparing QUEST's results with SMRTL's!

Actually, this is what you decided to do. That's the whole point of why we are debating this issue, is it not? You said that SMRTL dropped the ball because it uses Specific Gravity and that's why Mayweather's samples being required to pass the SPG test doesn't mean much. Right? Obviously the two can be compared when discussing hydration level. The two can NOT be compared when you show the study above and say it proves SPG would allow an athlete to do what Nate Diaz did....but then show no specific gravity results. 1. Your studies don't show marijuana metabolite levels of well above 300ng. 2. Your studies don't correlate with the amount of time Nate Diaz had. 3. Your study doesn't even mention specific gravity. You want to talk about apples and oranges? There you have it.

a) Studies and those experts indicated that there are multiple variables that state that its quite possible that 2 results can be DRAMATICALLY different(SMRTL vs QUEST). You came back with a goose egg type response.

b) Do you know what Diaz did exactly that makes you say impossible to get all those positive results?

So to say, you showed me nothing to say that this scenario is not possible!!! So Diaz's expert was just trying to formulate a specific scenario and NOT taking everything into account!!!

Dude, you are proving the medical review officer's point. He clearly states that if this result is purportedly due to dilution alone, it is not plausible. Here you've said over and over "what else did Nate Diaz do." Thanks for admitting that this was not from dilution alone, which is what you first tried to state. I know what it was from. It was from Quest ****ing up the test, just as they did on the same exact day with Silva's test.

c) Diaz's history on marijuana and getting caught:
From his passed, he tested positive twice and avoided or delayed or produced a diluted urine sample several times.

You keep bringing this up. Why is it relevant? We all know he was busted in the past. SMRTL found that he took marijuana as well. What IS relevant is the amount. That's Nick's (is it Nick or Nate....I don't even remember) point. You are trying to say the amount isn't an issue but that IS the issue.

For the fight in question: We had 2 positive tests just days before(failed getting his license), then the extremely diluted and void SMRTL result and the positive result after the fight.

First of all, you are giving false information yet again (surprise, surprise). The two tests taken days before the fight were voluntary tests. He took them to make sure that he can pass and get his license. He tested once and found that he could not pass. Tested three days later and found that he could pass, and then applied for reinstatement.

That's right. We have a labcorp test which was his voluntary test to make sure that he would pass:
1/26/15
creatinine: 240.1mg/dl Very Concentrated
<50ng/ml

Then we have the QUEST test:
1/31/15
Creatinine 168.4mg/dl
733.23ng/ml

No apples and oranges here, so this should make you happy. Can you explain? He was less diluted for the 1/26 test, yet he was found to have less than 50ng of marijuana. Five days later he passed two tests lower than 70ng, and somehow failed Quest's test with a whopping 733.23ng (or certainly well above 300ng). How does this make sense to you? Was he dumb enough to voluntarily test himself, find out that he was below the limit, apply for reinstatement, get it, and then smoke again right before the test? IT MAKES NO SENSE! The 1/30 test was more diluted than the 1/26 test, yet the marijuana level is 14 times higher!!! I dare you to attempt to reconcile this. Please answer how this makes sense to you without ducking. Thanks.

For the fight in question, Diaz says that it was not about him not using (admitting that he used) it was about him beating a threshold. lol!
Yet, you say that its not possible? Wow!

He is absolutely right. Why is he wrong about that? He is allowed to be below a certain threshold. You fail to see what's the issue here.

Studies showed that numbers can be reduced easily by 5-10 fold just by drinking 1-2 liters of liquid. That does not mean that you calculate by subtracting ten like you think!!!

This is where you should answer the questions I asked you instead of ducking. You still haven't answered clearly. Diaz was at 1.009 specific gravity.

A. The podcast from your referee says that Diaz needed to drink 2-4 liters of water.

B. The study that you showed claimed that drinking 1 liter of water puts the subject at a specific gravity of 1.003. So accordingly, he drank less than a liter of water, right or wrong? Can you answer?

C. The live study you provided of seven subjects who drank slightly less than 2 liters of water each had specific gravities of 1.006 or lower after drinking, and the biggest jump they made after drinking 3.79liters of water was 94ng to 8ng of marijuana metabolite with a specific gravity of 1.001. This shows his specific gravity would be lower than 1.009 had he drank 2 liters of water, and even 4 liters wouldn't be enough to do what he would have needed to do. Just as the MRO stated. Can you please address this and stop ducking it. This shows your referee/expert has no idea what he is talking about.

d) There is also the possibility that SMRTL's results were wrong just like that Russian's results where after WADA investigated, it was found that SMRTL had it wrong.

SMRTL would have had to have gotten it wrong twice, and Labcorp would have also had to get it wrong. OR, QUEST, who got another test wrong on the same exact day taken at around the same exact time for another combatant in the same exact fight, could have gotten it wrong. Now, which do you think is more likely? That's not a rhetorical question. Please answer.

e) SMRTL:
BEFORE FIGHT:
THC metabolite concentration = 49.73 ng/ml
specific gravity = 1.002

AFTER FIGHT:
THC metabolite concentration = 61.104 ng/ml
specific gravity = 1.009

Given the above results, to go from sg of 1.020 to the diluted value of 1.002 that respresents a dilution value equal to 10 Folds. So to say that if we had corrected the concentration, the THC metabolite concentration could have been closer to 497.3 ng/ml.

LMAO. Come on, dude. Really? Where are you getting 1.020 from? Normal specific gravity falls between 1.002 and 1.030. Should we assign an arbitrary creatinine level to him to fit an agenda?

Secondly, when comparing the BEFORE and AFTER Results, one would think that the results after the fight would have had a higher metabolite concentration than 61.104 ng/ml since the sg of 1.009 would represent a dilution of just over 2 Folds. So to say that this value of 61.104 ng/ml appears to be suppressed (more than 2 Folds)somehow.

No. The problem is you believed a study that tried to make this into a math equation when it clearly doesn't work that neatly. The study that you are referencing is shlt. But feel free to reference that study if you'd like, but you'd have to accept that it clearly states 1 liter of water puts a person at 1.003 specific gravity. Again, this means Diaz drank less than 1 liter. Right or wrong? Don't duck, bro. And if this is another attempt at you saying Diaz must have done something else, then you admit this wasn't about dilution, in which case you still lose. You have nowhere to go with this.

NOTE: Some variations can exist due to multiple factors but that is true also (more so) when comparing SMRTL and QUEST results. ooops

LMAO. There you go again. What factors? Like non-dilution factors? Thanks for admitting you are wrong yet again. OOPS!

f) As I keep on telling you, I have the positive results. You have those diluted SMRLT results that are very questionable and one can be outright thrown out the window! So its YOU that needs to explain to me all that. I gave a summary above that makes SMRTLs results look "off" due to dilution of Diaz's urine samples and there are those positive results and

Diaz's own words and past failed results that just point to Diaz being guilty! Sorry.

All of the results are positive. I don't see your point. You have one positive result. Two if you want to include the labcorp result that was taken on 1/23. I have 3 results that are under the threshold. I have 2 negative results in a row, then comes your positive result that had a value that was sky high, then another negative result coming after. Now, which do you think seems out of place? Nothing seems out of place due to dilution, and that's why you yourself are squirming to hint that he did something besides dilution. You shot yourself in your own face.

g) TEST 2 and TEST 3, as stated in point "a" above are like comparing orange and apples, according to the experts. Besides the obvious (different LABS, protocols, ....) One reason to take into account is that urine concentrations can vary dramatically throughout the day.
.

Dude, we have the urine concentration values. I don't know why you keep throwing out bs hoping that anything will stick.


Look, Nick had TWO DCO's waiting for him directly after the fight. TWO! One from NSAC and one from SMRTL. The NSAC DCO testified that they both watched him when he left the cage. The QUEST test taken at that time was found to be slightly dehydrated, I believe they said. That means he didn't overdrink. At that point he had 1hr 17 minutes to drink it up. He drank enough to dilute well over 300ng AT THE TIME OF THE QUEST TEST to 61ng in 1hr17 minutes in front of now at least one DCO? His specific gravity was well within range of what is allowed by WADA.--1.009, and your studies show that had he drank as much as you claim he did, it would have been lower. Right or wrong? Don't your studies show that?????? Please answer.

That is why you are wrong. That is also why NSAC's decision had a lot more to do with Nick lying instead of the tests. One of the "judges" even admit that Nick's legal team did a hell of a job. Quest ****ed up twice in one day. Get over it!

[LoadedWraps]

Welcome back. Hope you enjoyed Boracay. I really like it there.

Here's the thing. You're not going to get what I'm saying to you unless some other people come on board to tell you that you are wrong. This is why I asked you to go to the Thunderdome or make a new thread. You refuse. My hunch is that you refuse because deep down you know you are wrong. I don't know why you want to continue bickering about this thing. I can type to you until my fingers fall off about why you are wrong, and you still won't get it. I'll try again...hopefully for the last time.



Actually, this is what you decided to do. That's the whole point of why we are debating this issue, is it not? You said that SMRTL dropped the ball because it uses Specific Gravity and that's why Mayweather's samples being required to pass the SPG test doesn't mean much. Right? Obviously the two can be compared when discussing hydration level. The two can NOT be compared when you show the study above and say it proves SPG would allow an athlete to do what Nate Diaz did....but then show no specific gravity results. 1. Your studies don't show marijuana metabolite levels of well above 300ng. 2. Your studies don't correlate with the amount of time Nate Diaz had. 3. Your study doesn't even mention specific gravity. You want to talk about apples and oranges? There you have it.





Dude, you are proving the medical review officer's point. He clearly states that if this result is purportedly due to dilution alone, it is not plausible. Here you've said over and over "what else did Nate Diaz do." Thanks for admitting that this was not from dilution alone, which is what you first tried to state. I know what it was from. It was from Quest ****ing up the test, just as they did on the same exact day with Silva's test.



You keep bringing this up. Why is it relevant? We all know he was busted in the past. SMRTL found that he took marijuana as well. What IS relevant is the amount. That's Nick's (is it Nick or Nate....I don't even remember) point. You are trying to say the amount isn't an issue but that IS the issue.



First of all, you are giving false information yet again (surprise, surprise). The two tests taken days before the fight were voluntary tests. He took them to make sure that he can pass and get his license. He tested once and found that he could not pass. Tested three days later and found that he could pass, and then applied for reinstatement.

That's right. We have a labcorp test which was his voluntary test to make sure that he would pass:
1/26/15
creatinine: 240.1mg/dl Very Concentrated
<50ng/ml

Then we have the QUEST test:
1/31/15
Creatinine 168.4mg/dl
733.23ng/ml

No apples and oranges here, so this should make you happy. Can you explain? He was less diluted for the 1/26 test, yet he was found to have less than 50ng of marijuana. Five days later he passed two tests lower than 70ng, and somehow failed Quest's test with a whopping 733.23ng (or certainly well above 300ng). How does this make sense to you? Was he dumb enough to voluntarily test himself, find out that he was below the limit, apply for reinstatement, get it, and then smoke again right before the test? IT MAKES NO SENSE! The 1/30 test was more diluted than the 1/26 test, yet the marijuana level is 14 times higher!!! I dare you to attempt to reconcile this. Please answer how this makes sense to you without ducking. Thanks.



He is absolutely right. Why is he wrong about that? He is allowed to be below a certain threshold. You fail to see what's the issue here.



This is where you should answer the questions I asked you instead of ducking. You still haven't answered clearly. Diaz was at 1.009 specific gravity.

A. The podcast from your referee says that Diaz needed to drink 2-4 liters of water.

B. The study that you showed claimed that drinking 1 liter of water puts the subject at a specific gravity of 1.003. So accordingly, he drank less than a liter of water, right or wrong? Can you answer?

C. The live study you provided of seven subjects who drank slightly less than 2 liters of water each had specific gravities of 1.006 or lower after drinking, and the biggest jump they made after drinking 3.79liters of water was 94ng to 8ng of marijuana metabolite with a specific gravity of 1.001. This shows his specific gravity would be lower than 1.009 had he drank 2 liters of water, and even 4 liters wouldn't be enough to do what he would have needed to do. Just as the MRO stated. Can you please address this and stop ducking it. This shows your referee/expert has no idea what he is talking about.



SMRTL would have had to have gotten it wrong twice, and Labcorp would have also had to get it wrong. OR, QUEST, who got another test wrong on the same exact day taken at around the same exact time for another combatant in the same exact fight, could have gotten it wrong. Now, which do you think is more likely? That's not a rhetorical question. Please answer.




LMAO. Come on, dude. Really? Where are you getting 1.020 from? Normal specific gravity falls between 1.002 and 1.030. Should we assign an arbitrary creatinine level to him to fit an agenda?



No. The problem is you believed a study that tried to make this into a math equation when it clearly doesn't work that nearly. The study that you are referencing is shlt. But feel free to reference that study if you'd like, but you'd have to accept that it clearly states 1 liter of water puts a person at 1.003 specific gravity. Again, this means Diaz drank less than 1 liter. Right or wrong? Don't duck, bro. And if this is another attempt at you saying Diaz must have done something else, then you admit this wasn't about dilution, in which case you still lose. You have nowhere to go with this.



LMAO. There you go again. What factors? Like non-dilution factors? Thanks for admitting you are wrong yet again. OOPS!



All of the results are positive. I don't see your point. You have one positive result. Two if you want to include the labcorp result that was taken on 1/23. I have 3 results that are under the threshold. I have 2 negative results in a row, then comes your positive result that had a value that was sky high, then another negative result coming after. Now, which do you think seems out of place? Nothing seems out of place due to dilution, and that's why you yourself are squirming to hint that he did something besides dilution. You shot yourself in your own face.




Dude, we have the urine concentration values. I don't know why you keep throwing out bs hoping that anything will stick.


Look, Nick had TWO DCO's waiting for him directly after the fight. TWO! One from NSAC and one from SMRTL. The NSAC DCO testified that they both watched him when he left the cage. The QUEST test taken at that time was found to be slightly dehydrated, I believe they said. That means he didn't overdrink. At that point he had 1hr 17 minutes to drink it up. He drank enough to dilute well over 300ng AT THE TIME OF THE QUEST TEST to 61ng in 1hr17 minutes in front of now at least one DCO. His specific gravity was well within range of what is allowed by WADA. 1.009, and your studies show that had he drank as much as you claim he did, it would have been lower. Right or wrong? Don't your studies show that?????? Please answer.

That is why you are wrong. That is also why NSAC's decision had a lot more to do with Nick lying instead of the tests. One of the "judges" even admit that Nick's legal team did a hell of a job. Quest ****ed up twice in one day. Get over it!

[ADP02]

Welcome back. Hope you enjoyed Boracay. I really like it there.

Thanks, I wished I was there now! Where I'm at now, the weather is not good!

Here's the thing. You're not going to get what I'm saying to you unless some other people come on board to tell you that you are wrong. This is why I asked you to go to the Thunderdome or make a new thread. You refuse. My hunch is that you refuse because deep down you know you are wrong. I don't know why you want to continue bickering about this thing. I can type to you until my fingers fall off about why you are wrong, and you still won't get it. I'll try again...hopefully for the last time.

Your hunch is wrong

I never been to the Thunderdome section and do not even know what the difference would be. Like I told you, all that has to be said can be said here since we already began the discussion here.

Secondly and more importantly:
- I have 2 positive tests just days before the fight,
- The positive test after the fight,
- The ruling against Diaz
- Diaz's team agreeing to the negotiated deal.
- PLUS, previous positive tests by Diaz and suspensions. On what? Marijuana!!! BTW
- PLUS, previous times and after the fact where Diaz tried to delay giving samples
- PLUS, Diaz admitting to trying to beat the test.
- PLUS, Diaz stating that it was not about Diaz using marijuana but being below a threshold!
- PLUS, Diaz supposedly had a prescription. To what? To use marijuana!!!

- PLUS, QUEST has a 2 test protocol. BOTH came up positive!!!


So AGAIN, its YOU that needs to show why Diaz is innocent. Not even Diaz's team wanted to know the results of Sample B. You know why? Because it would have told you that Diaz was guilty!!! There is no other possible explanation for that move. NONE!!!!!

Actually, this is what you decided to do. That's the whole point of why we are debating this issue, is it not? You said that SMRTL dropped the ball because it uses Specific Gravity and that's why Mayweather's samples being required to pass the SPG test doesn't mean much. Right? Obviously the two can be compared when discussing hydration level. The two can NOT be compared when you show the study above and say it proves SPG would allow an athlete to do what Nate Diaz did....but then show no specific gravity results. 1. Your studies don't show marijuana metabolite levels of well above 300ng. 2. Your studies don't correlate with the amount of time Nate Diaz had. 3. Your study doesn't even mention specific gravity. You want to talk about apples and oranges? There you have it.

Deflecting again.

Diaz's team gave a specific scenario that didn't make sense for a number of reasons. You bought their explanation. I showed you several studies and articles that point out that that is similar to what people are doing as far as drinking to dilute!!! So Specific Gravity or Creatinine test was not the point. The point is that one can dilute without being intoxicated.

BUT as I stated before, what Diaz's team says has a few "IFs" in their statements. In other words, even if you buy into their version, you need to ask yourself, what "IF" Diaz did something different?

Diaz's team: "IF not properly corrected it can lead to serious medical condition such as headaches" Well that means that IF Diaz properly corrected it, then Diaz's expert is saying its possible!!!
Diaz's team: "If its from hydration alone its not medically plausible." Well that means that IF Diaz did not do it by "hydration alone", then Diaz's expert is saying its possible!!!
Diaz's team: "To drop in 1:17 minutes between the 2 tests after the fight, absolutely not (possible)." But the so called expert didn't calculate that Diaz could have started drinking well before the 1:17 minutes!!!


A Study does not have to show over 300 as long as the ratios are similar or at least shows that one can drop 8-10 FOLDs by drinking just water ......

As for over 300,
400 > 300 and the article that I pointed to shows that by just diluting 8 FOLDS, urine samples can drop from 400 to 50!!! BTW - I remember seeing a similar diagram where they demonstrate that by drinking just 1-2 liters of water the urine production increases dramatically! How long does it take? The effects are quick and comparable to Diaz's scenario.

BTW - AGAIN, I do not even need to show you any of this but I did. YOU on the other hand have shown me NOTHING and its you that needs to start showing me how its not possible. Oh wait, you cannot because you do not have the B sample and all experts say that 2 samples taken at different times by different labs and different protocols can have dramatically different results! Ooops!

Dude, you are proving the medical review officer's point. He clearly states that if this result is purportedly due to dilution alone, it is not plausible. Here you've said over and over "what else did Nate Diaz do." Thanks for admitting that this was not from dilution alone, which is what you first tried to state. I know what it was from. It was from Quest ****ing up the test, just as they did on the same exact day with Silva's test.

Lame.
1) Read my points that I made already in this post. Experts timeframe of 1:17 min was inaccurate and you do NOT need to drink an amount that the expert couldn't even tell us!

2) So you are now agreeing that there are other scenarios!!! So Diaz's defense team is wrong! Its not impossible!!!

So to say, Diaz's positive results was possible. You think that is what Diaz's team was trying to convey? Like I said, lame by both YOU for buying that crock and Diaz's team for coming up with all those "IFs"!

BTW - Its not Nate its Nick

You keep bringing this up. Why is it relevant? We all know he was busted in the past. SMRTL found that he took marijuana as well. What IS relevant is the amount. That's Nick's (is it Nick or Nate....I don't even remember) point. You are trying to say the amount isn't an issue but that IS the issue.

Is this a joke?

Diaz has a long history of marijuana abuse and this is about marijuana abuse and you ask why am I bringing it up? Diaz also has a history and admitted to trying to use and beat the system by ways such as diluting his urine sample. Are you saying that is all irrelevant? lol

First of all, you are giving false information yet again (surprise, surprise). The two tests taken days before the fight were voluntary tests. He took them to make sure that he can pass and get his license. He tested once and found that he could not pass. Tested three days later and found that he could pass, and then applied for reinstatement.

That's right. We have a labcorp test which was his voluntary test to make sure that he would pass:
1/26/15
creatinine: 240.1mg/dl Very Concentrated
<50ng/ml

Then we have the QUEST test:
1/31/15
Creatinine 168.4mg/dl
733.23ng/ml

No apples and oranges here, so this should make you happy. Can you explain? He was less diluted for the 1/26 test, yet he was found to have less than 50ng of marijuana. Five days later he passed two tests lower than 70ng, and somehow failed Quest's test with a whopping 733.23ng (or certainly well above 300ng). How does this make sense to you? Was he dumb enough to voluntarily test himself, find out that he was below the limit, apply for reinstatement, get it, and then smoke again right before the test? IT MAKES NO SENSE! The 1/30 test was more diluted than the 1/26 test, yet the marijuana level is 14 times higher!!! I dare you to attempt to reconcile this. Please answer how this makes sense to you without ducking. Thanks.

Voluntary? Diaz was having a hard time passing the test and failed several times. If he didn't pass it, no fight! lol
""But with the clock ticking, the manager, Lloyd Pierson, allegedly admitted that the fighter was having a tough time passing a test and mentioned the possibility of obtaining a therapeutic-use exemption for marijuana to the NSAC’s legal representative, Nevada Deputy Attorney General Chris Eccles."


How he does it?

Again, you need to talk to Diaz to know exactly but Diaz has stated in the past that he would smoke marijuana 7-8 days out and often even the night before the fight:
- Diaz said in an interview with The Times last week. "I'm happy to get loaded, hear some good music . . . I remain consistent. And I have an easy way to deal with [the drug tests]."
"I got high in my [hotel] room the night before every [UFC] fight," Diaz said.

- MMA fighter Nick Diaz says smoking marijuana is part of his plan He says it helps him be 'more consistent about everything.'


But as stated by the experts, results can vary dramatically given that we have multiple Labs, PROTOCOLS and urine samples tested are different but since you want to go there:

Explanation: Using the evidence on hand, on 1/26 Diaz passed a test with < 50 where he was supposedly more dehydrated than any of his tests on 1/31 YET, his THC metabolite concentration was even
lower than TEST #2 and #3. Being that TEST #1 was extremely diluted, when you take into account corrections due to dilution, it would be the case (THC levels for TEST #1 are higher than 1/26 results) for TEST #1 as well (perhaps even without the corrections since TEST #1 was at about 49 ng/ml)!!!!!

So we have another nail in the coffin. This pretty much solved this case!

In summary, the 1/26 results show lower THC levels with a relatively higher concentration of urine (more dehydrated) than the 1/31 THC levels for all 3 tests.
To get the THC levels up, only if Diaz smoked up afterwards does it make any sense! BINGO!!! Case solved.

He is absolutely right. Why is he wrong about that? He is allowed to be below a certain threshold. You fail to see what's the issue here.

No you fail to see the issue.

This guy has a fight coming up and is smoking and "thinking" that he would be below the threshold. That is a best case scenario.

Worst case is that he thought that with the new threshold, he can smoke and EASILY beat(by cheating) the test . As Diaz admits, he is not too bright. He admits and you are OK with all that. lol

If you or I were in Diaz's shoes, we would just have stopped because we would know better than to take the chance. Especially since he got caught twice before!

This is where you should answer the questions I asked you instead of ducking. You still haven't answered clearly. Diaz was at 1.009 specific gravity.

A. The podcast from your referee says that Diaz needed to drink 2-4 liters of water.

B. The study that you showed claimed that drinking 1 liter of water puts the subject at a specific gravity of 1.003. So accordingly, he drank less than a liter of water, right or wrong? Can you answer?

C. The live study you provided of seven subjects who drank slightly less than 2 liters of water each had specific gravities of 1.006 or lower after drinking, and the biggest jump they made after drinking 3.79liters of water was 94ng to 8ng of marijuana metabolite with a specific gravity of 1.001. This shows his specific gravity would be lower than 1.009 had he drank 2 liters of water, and even 4 liters wouldn't be enough to do what he would have needed to do. Just as the MRO stated. Can you please address this and stop ducking it. This shows your referee/expert has no idea what he is talking about.

The experts told you that the results can vary dramatically due to it being different labs, protocols and urine samples!!! Plus there are other variables to consider. What do you not understand about that?

WRONG.

The MRO stated that levels cannot drop from 733 to 61 in 1:17 min.
1) QUEST stated that the reliable value is > 300 not 733
2) From the time of the end of the fight to TEST #3 it was more than 1:17 min. Close to double that amount of time.
3) MRO had too many "IFs" to make his statement credible.
4) ALMOST EVERY STUDY AND ARTICLE THAT i READ SAYS THAT YOU CAN DILUTE AND YOU SHOULD DILUTE WITHIN HOURS OF YOUR TEST because trying to dilute way before that time is useless!!!! I pointed out one article where 400 ng/ml drops to 50 (8 FOLD) and they mention it that it can be dropped easily at 10 FOLDS and more since THC metabolites are usually not in the 10s of thousands like some other substances.

Anyhow,
- Diaz was extremely diluted before the fight and was also diluted in TEST #3. 1.009 is considered more than 2 FOLDs diluted.
- Diaz's TEST #2 was supposedly more concentrated .
- THC metabolite concentrations follow a "sawtooth" pattern of increases and decreases dependent upon urine volume and other factors.
- Studies state not to do any exercise for at least 2 hours prior to the test as it can elevate your THC metabolite levels.
- What did Diaz do besides drinking water to beat the system?
- If the THC metabolite levels drop it does not necessarily mean that there was a reduction. Why? As stated there are variables to consider. Urine volume, dilution, other substances in the urine sample, less THC excreted for that sample compared to previous samples (example: due to exercise, muscle/body injuries and so on)
- Urine sample: Did Diaz collect mid-stream sample of urine in the collection cup for both or was it done differently?
- TEST #2 which had higher concentrations of THC metabolites was flushed out of his system. TEST #3 was more dilute.
- The state of polyuria typically lasts from 1-4 hours. Some cases it can be longer than that!
- Study: "The marijuana assay turned negative and stayed that way, even after specific gravity levels had returned to normal!"
- Studies have reported that after combat fighting, the athlete can have more substances in his urine due to exercise and trauma. This could affect specific gravity and creatinine levels.
- MRO, the so called expert, made the mistake of not advising Diaz to test Sample B so that means Sample A stands.

When possible, they take a THC/Creatinine ratio to be sure that a drop in THC really means an overall reduction. There is a possibility that the THC metabolite levels can drop yet the user actually used marijuana compared to previous samples where the THC levels were actually higher.

In summary, lots of stuff could have happened.

SMRTL would have had to have gotten it wrong twice, and Labcorp would have also had to get it wrong. OR, QUEST, who got another test wrong on the same exact day taken at around the same exact time for another combatant in the same exact fight, could have gotten it wrong. Now, which do you think is more likely? That's not a rhetorical question. Please answer.

WRONG!

I explained it to you already in this post. SMRTL had it wrong at least once since one sample was sent to the LAB was extremely diluted. That goes against their own protocol and YOU cannot turn around and say that was done right! Secondly, LABCORPs result is more in line with QUESTs positive result not SMRTLs negative result as I explained already. In other words, one would expect that a sample taken 5 days later would have a much lower level of THC metabolite especially if its a very diluted sample compared to the more concentrated sample from 1/26. Well that was not the case for any of the 3 test results from 1/31 date.

Secondly, there is also the possibility that none of the LABs had it wrong in that they reported what they could find and that's it. We do not know exactly what Diaz did to cheat. Its like athletes who get tested multiple times and pass all but 1. You do not throw out that 1 because the others turned up negative. Nor is it the testing agency that needs to prove what exactly the athlete did to cheat. All they need to do is find the illegal substances.

LMAO. Come on, dude. Really? Where are you getting 1.020 from? Normal specific gravity falls between 1.002 and 1.030. Should we assign an arbitrary creatinine level to him to fit an agenda?

1.020 is not a random number. Its mentioned by WADA and SMRTL and others as a point of reference. Its used as a baseline to normalize their values/results. Its used as a guide to state if > 1.020
then the athlete is considered to be more dehydrated and < 1.020 more hydrated. Go check out various sites and articles, you would see that they use that number as reference to state how dilute a urine sample is (eg. 1.01 = 2 Fold, 1.002 = 10 Fold,.....)

"At 1:15:00 in the hearing Dr. Eichner, the president from SMRTL, starts his testimony. He has been president for 4 years at SMRTL, WADA approved lab, and expert toxicologist. At 1:21:00 Eccles asks about the final concentration level for the last test, SG 1.009, Eccles asked "what can you tell us about the specimen with that SG," Eichner answered "1.009 is evident that urine is more dilute than what we would normally see, regular sample we would normally see is 1.020, so 1.009 is significantly lower than that, significantly more hydrated then normal."

No. The problem is you believed a study that tried to make this into a math equation when it clearly doesn't work that neatly. The study that you are referencing is shlt. But feel free to reference that study if you'd like, but you'd have to accept that it clearly states 1 liter of water puts a person at 1.003 specific gravity. Again, this means Diaz drank less than 1 liter. Right or wrong? Don't duck, bro. And if this is another attempt at you saying Diaz must have done something else, then you admit this wasn't about dilution, in which case you still lose. You have nowhere to go with this.

Diaz's TEST #1 and TEST #3 THC metabolite numbers are not important by itself. One needs to factor in the dilution but there very well can be other factors as I have pointed out already. So to say that if TEST #1 and TEST #3 were not dilute, the THC metabolite numbers would definitely have been higher.

LMAO. There you go again. What factors? Like non-dilution factors? Thanks for admitting you are wrong yet again. OOPS!

What? I have been pointing this out like forever! Experts in the Diaz case even mentions this.

Here is a study that splits a urine sample into 4 and tests them all. They were expecting that they would all come back with the exact same results but there hypothesis was wrong.

"If the split sample method is employed, the donor urinates into a single collection container, and the
collection site person, in the presence of the donor, pours the specimen into two specimen bottles. The specimens are sealed and shipped to the laboratory for drug testing. The process is designed to produce identical specimens that, upon analysis, would produce equivalent results.

There were 13 specimens in which THCCOOH concentrations differed from the mean by more than 20% and 3 specimens which differed by more than 50%"


https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Concentration

All of the results are positive. I don't see your point. You have one positive result. Two if you want to include the labcorp result that was taken on 1/23. I have 3 results that are under the threshold. I have 2 negative results in a row, then comes your positive result that had a value that was sky high, then another negative result coming after. Now, which do you think seems out of place? Nothing seems out of place due to dilution, and that's why you yourself are squirming to hint that he did something besides dilution. You shot yourself in your own face.

What? I just explained to you that there were 2 positive tests before 1/26. The 1/26 results do not jive with the 1/31 results and I state why above. TEST #1 on 1/31, which you are saying was

negative can be thrown out of the window yet you are clinging on to that as if its valid. So again, it just does not add up! The 1/26 result in which the urine concentration was high has a lower THC metabolite level than any of the 1/31 results. That must mean that Diaz smoked up after the 1/26 date and/or Diaz happened to beat the 1/26 test as well.

Days before 1/23: Diaz failed
1/23: Diaz failed
1/26: Diaz passed with THC < 50 ng/ml NOTE: Urine was very concentrated
1/31 TEST #1: Diaz test was invalid due to it being to dilute. THC = 49 but would be much higher if corrected for dilution. Red flag if taking 1/26 results into consideration.
1/31 TEST #2a: Diaz failed immunoassay test: Score was 1.423 which means its positive for marijuana
1/31 TEST #2b: Diaz failed quantitative gc/ms test: THC metabolite > 300 ng/ml
1/31 TEST #3: Diaz passed but urine sample was > 2 FOLDs dilute. THC = 61 but would be much higher if corrected for dilution. Red flag if taking 1/26 results into consideration.

The above is enough for most but remember that Diaz has failed and been suspended twice before and has avoided being tested before. He also said that he can pass any marijuana test. Its too easy!

Dude, we have the urine concentration values. I don't know why you keep throwing out bs hoping that anything will stick.


Look, Nick had TWO DCO's waiting for him directly after the fight. TWO! One from NSAC and one from SMRTL. The NSAC DCO testified that they both watched him when he left the cage. The QUEST test taken at that time was found to be slightly dehydrated, I believe they said. That means he didn't overdrink. At that point he had 1hr 17 minutes to drink it up. He drank enough to dilute well over 300ng AT THE TIME OF THE QUEST TEST to 61ng in 1hr17 minutes in front of now at least one DCO? His specific gravity was well within range of what is allowed by WADA.--1.009, and your studies show that had he drank as much as you claim he did, it would have been lower. Right or wrong? Don't your studies show that?????? Please answer.

That is why you are wrong. That is also why NSAC's decision had a lot more to do with Nick lying instead of the tests. One of the "judges" even admit that Nick's legal team did a hell of a job. Quest ****ed up twice in one day. Get over it!

No. Diaz's team did the best they can under the circumstances but lets face it. If they thought that TEST #2 was wrong, they would have had the B sample tested. Being that they made that fatal mistake, Sample A stands!!! They could have even requested Sample B be tested after the case since they wanted to retry yet they instead agreed that they made a mistake when pleading the 5th and made a mistake in not saying that Diaz smoked but not during "in-competition". That was Diaz's statement in order to reduce his suspension time.

Say the truth. If Manny Pacquaio was tested 10+ times against Floyd and failed only once, would you have said that it was wrong since Manny passed those other 9 times?


Everyone in the case stated that TEST #1 was way too dilute and TEST #3 was more dilute than normal.
Nobody disputed that. So you cannot say that is not the case.

Lance Armstrong passed many times but that didn't mean that he didn't cheat. If I would have told you that he smuggled right in front of the DCO an IV and used it just minutes before giving a sample, you would have laughed and said that its idiotic to believe that the DCO would have not seen that. We do not know what Nick Diaz did exactly but one thing is for sure, he has diluted in the past and TEST #1 and #3 were diluted samples! TEST #1 was so much so that it was an invalid result.

[ADP02]

Nice. Except getting a cold, seems like you had a good time.

Yup, I had a good time.

I haven't been there in a while and the traffic was very noticeable this time around. Quite crazy trying to get around.

The weather, while mostly cloudy while I was there, it was nice and warm compared to where I'm at now!

[travestyny]

Thanks, I wished I was there now! Where I'm at now, the weather is not good!




Your hunch is wrong

You wrote a lot. Stay here. Let's get this over with.

1. People mentioned you over and over in the Thunderdome thread. So I know you know what it is and how to get there. You are just ducking it. Point blank.

2. You said this was about specific gravity vs. Creatinine. Now why are you saying it is not about that?

3. The MRO never used the word impossible. He said implausible. Why do you keep insisting when I corrected this over and over.

4. Everything you said is wrong. Do you have time for me to go through this point by point so we can get this dumb **** over???

[ADP02]

You wrote a lot. Stay here. Let's get this over with.

1. People mentioned you over and over in the Thunderdome thread. So I know you know what it is and how to get there. You are just ducking it. Point blank.

2. You said this was about specific gravity vs. Creatinine. Now why are you saying it is not about that?

3. The MRO never used the word impossible. He said implausible. Why do you keep insisting when I corrected this over and over.

4. Everything you said is wrong. Do you have time for me to go through this point by point so we can get this dumb **** over???

Gotta get some shut eye. I'm working tomorrow and its late here. I will read it tomorrow hopefully.

[travestyny]

Let’s get back on track of the main issue.

You’ve stated in the past that Mayweather’s IV would allow him to submit a diluted sample. This is not accurate. Will you admit that you were wrong?

…due to the IV, the urine was diluted and skewed Floyd's results.

IV infusions before sample collection could actually prolong the doping control sample process because it has a greater potential to produce multiple dilute samples.

http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uplo...-Infusions.pdf

The above quotation makes it clear that an athlete that receives an IV cannot submit a diluted sample. The sample will still have to pass the specific gravity test. Then, you initially tried to state there is a flaw with the specific gravity test that allows PED cheaters to pass drug tests. Your quotations make it clear that you believed WADA standards for the specific gravity test would allow an athlete to submit a urine sample that is too diluted to find evidence of doping:

Nick Diaz had 3 urine samples collected on the day of one of his fights. 2 samples used specific gravity tests to check for dilution. They came back .003 and .006. According to WADA rules, .006 is passible. Both samples returned negative results (not in violation). The third test which was done by Quest Lab and used a different protocol (not sg) turned in a positive result.

So to say that the sg test did not catch that the urine sample was too dilute to get a positive result!!!

Here, you are clearly saying that the SG test didn’t catch the sample was too diluted.

Test 1 and 3 used sg test while test 2 used a different protocol.

"The WADA-approved method consists of reading specific gravity of samples, while Quest relies on creatinine levels."


My point is that one lab found a positive result while the one using sg test found a negative result even if the sg of one was acceptable as per WADA rules. That was my point.

Ok. Do you see your point mentioned above? One lab (using creatinine) found large amounts of metabolites, while the other lab (using specific gravity) found a negative result. You state THAT IS YOUR POINT.

NOW LOOK HOW YOU’VE CHANGED:

You said:

My point is that one lab found a positive result [using a creatinine test] while the one using sg test found a negative result even if the sg of one was acceptable as per WADA rules. That was my point.

Then you said:

So Specific Gravity or Creatinine test was not the point. The point is that one can dilute without being intoxicated.

Dude……these statements are directly in conflict with each other. First you say there is clearly a flaw with WADA's use of the sg test as opposed to the creatinine test, now you’re saying it’s not about that at all. So now do you have any problem with the spg test?

You said:

So to say that the sg test did not catch that the urine sample was too dilute to get a positive result!!!

Then you said:

One needs to factor in the dilution but there very well can be other factors as I have pointed out already.

…that means that IF Diaz did not do it by "hydration alone", then Diaz's expert is saying its possible!!!

Secondly, there is also the possibility that none of the LABs had it wrong in that they reported what they could find and that's it. We do not know exactly what Diaz did to cheat. Nor is it the testing agency that needs to prove what exactly the athlete did to cheat. All they need to do is find the illegal substances.

First it was the spg test didn’t catch that the sample was too diluted, now you say it’s possible that none of the labs had it wrong. You didn’t mention anything about other factors at first. You said this was based on the sg test not catching that the urine was too diluted. This changed to dilution only being one factor, and possibly not being a factor at all depending on what Diaz did.

Your stance has changed dramatically. Isn’t it safe to say this is over now? Mayweather’s sample was required to pass the specific gravity test due to USADA being a signatory of WADA. The sample was not allowed to be diluted. There is no proof that WADA’s specific gravity test would allow a dirty sample to pass as clean, and you are admitting that by now trying to introduce other factors and by saying that this is no longer about specific gravity vs. creatinine tests. Your only angle left is to speculate that Mayweather used “other factors” to abuse PED’s and pass the test.

This should effectively end this.

[ADP02]

Let’s get back on track of the main issue.

You’ve stated in the past that Mayweather’s IV would allow him to submit a diluted sample. This is not accurate. Will you admit that you were wrong?





The above quotation makes it clear that an athlete that receives an IV cannot submit a diluted sample. The sample will still have to pass the specific gravity test. Then, you initially tried to state there is a flaw with the specific gravity test that allows PED cheaters to pass drug tests. Your quotations make it clear that you believed WADA standards for the specific gravity test would allow an athlete to submit a urine sample that is too diluted to find evidence of doping:



Here, you are clearly saying that the SG test didn’t catch the sample was too diluted.



Ok. Do you see your point mentioned above? One lab (using creatinine) found large amounts of metabolites, while the other lab (using specific gravity) found a negative result. You state THAT IS YOUR POINT.

NOW LOOK HOW YOU’VE CHANGED:

You said:


Then you said:


Dude……these statements are directly in conflict with each other. First you say there is clearly a flaw with WADA's use of the sg test as opposed to the creatinine test, now you’re saying it’s not about that at all. So now do you have any problem with the spg test?

You said:


Then you said:


First it was the spg test didn’t catch that the sample was too diluted, now you say it’s possible that none of the labs had it wrong. You didn’t mention anything about other factors at first. You said this was based on the sg test not catching that the urine was too diluted. This changed to dilution only being one factor, and possibly not being a factor at all depending on what Diaz did.

Your stance has changed dramatically. Isn’t it safe to say this is over now? Mayweather’s sample was required to pass the specific gravity test due to USADA being a signatory of WADA. The sample was not allowed to be diluted. There is no proof that WADA’s specific gravity test would allow a dirty sample to pass as clean, and you are admitting that by now trying to introduce other factors and by saying that this is no longer about specific gravity vs. creatinine tests. Your only angle left is to speculate that Mayweather used “other factors” to abuse PED’s and pass the test.

This should effectively end this.

As I stated, SG and even Creatinine tests are just a tool but have their limitations. Secondly and again, using an IV one can dilute and still pass the SG test. Third point is that the SG can have a result that is passable but the substance abused is under the threshold still.

Finally, as we saw with Diaz, the lab got a hold of an invalid urine sample due to it being too diluted.

USADA should NOT have given Floyd a RETRO TUE when we saw that Floyd could have drank easily enough to rehydrate himself and we saw that his vitals and weigh in agrees with my statement. Floyd's weight hardly budged for 30 days and just after getting the IV, Floyd boasts that he doesn't dehydrate himself like others because he walks around at close to his weigh in weight! That is just crazy!

Add the delays and statistics that state that Floyd should have been able to urinate a messily 90ml in 6+ hours without an IV ....

Finally his excuses for having the IV are lies in that urinating, giving blood 10 days before and exercising "a little" would have him fail as excuses.

So to say, lots of things that happened that day should not have happened but Floyd's tag team partner, USADA, let it happen!

-----------------------------------------

I was correct. THANK YOU! SMRTL didn't catch what QUEST did!

-------------------------------------------

I was correct. THANK YOU! SMRTL didn't catch what QUEST did!

-------------------------------------------
I was correct. THANK YOU! SMRTL didn't catch what QUEST did!

-------------------------------------------
I was correct. THANK YOU! SMRTL didn't catch what QUEST did!

-------------------------------------------

I was correct. Its apples and oranges in that I'm also responding to Diaz's defense.


There are many ways. Diaz's expert witness said that Diaz couldn't have drank enough in so little time. You agreed but as I stated there was more time than he said plus Diaz could have used for example a diuretic to speed up the process or done something else other than drink lots of fluids. My example is still technically about dilution but as you can see, it was possible for Diaz as I keep on telling you. Diaz's expert knows all this but he made it sound like it was only about his specific scenario but as I pointed out, there were too many IFs in his statements. I caught that and tried to explain it to you ......



But lets face it, I gave you several days yet you deflected my post big time!!!! You didn't because you know that using your own point, Diaz had to have used marijuana since his levels were actually higher than the 1/26 results. BOOOM!





-------------------------------------------

[travestyny]

As I stated, SG and even Creatinine tests are just a tool but have their limitations. Secondly and again, using an IV one can dilute and still pass the SG test. Third point is that the SG can have a result that is passable but the substance abused is under the threshold still.

Finally, as we saw with Diaz, the lab got a hold of an invalid urine sample due to it being too diluted.

USADA should NOT have given Floyd a RETRO TUE when we saw that Floyd could have drank easily enough to rehydrate himself and we saw that his vitals and weigh in agrees with my statement. Floyd's weight hardly budged for 30 days and just after getting the IV, Floyd boasts that he doesn't dehydrate himself like others because he walks around at close to his weigh in weight! That is just crazy!

Add the delays and statistics that state that Floyd should have been able to urinate a messily 90ml in 6+ hours without an IV ....

Finally his excuses for having the IV are lies in that urinating, giving blood 10 days before and exercising "a little" would have him fail as excuses.

So to say, lots of things that happened that day should not have happened but Floyd's tag team partner, USADA, let it happen!

-----------------------------------------

I was correct. THANK YOU! SMRTL didn't catch what QUEST did!

-------------------------------------------

I was correct. THANK YOU! SMRTL didn't catch what QUEST did!

-------------------------------------------
I was correct. THANK YOU! SMRTL didn't catch what QUEST did!

-------------------------------------------
I was correct. THANK YOU! SMRTL didn't catch what QUEST did!

-------------------------------------------

I was correct. Its apples and oranges in that I'm also responding to Diaz's defense.


There are many ways. Diaz's expert witness said that Diaz couldn't have drank enough in so little time. You agreed but as I stated there was more time than he said plus Diaz could have used for example a diuretic to speed up the process or done something else other than drink lots of fluids. My example is still technically about dilution but as you can see, it was possible for Diaz as I keep on telling you. Diaz's expert knows all this but he made it sound like it was only about his specific scenario but as I pointed out, there were too many IFs in his statements. I caught that and tried to explain it to you ......



But lets face it, I gave you several days yet you deflected my post big time!!!! You didn't because you know that using your own point, Diaz had to have used marijuana since his levels were actually higher than the 1/26 results. BOOOM!





-------------------------------------------

Lmao. You actually think I deflected your bull****? Really? I deleted my post and replaced it to show how much you been contradicting yourself. I'll reply again to how you are still contradicting yourself when I get home. You aren't fooling anyone. But if you want to continue with this bs about Diaz. I saved my reply. Will send it when I get a sec.

----
Done. Have fun combing thru that since you wanna keep this going so badly.

[travestyny]

Secondly and more importantly:
- I have 2 positive tests just days before the fight,

No you don't. One positive test on 1/23. One negative test on 1/26. These were voluntary tests that he took to make sure he could pass (without diluting, I might add).

- The positive test after the fight,
- The ruling against Diaz
- Diaz's team agreeing to the negotiated deal.
- PLUS, previous positive tests by Diaz and suspensions. On what? Marijuana!!! BTW
- PLUS, previous times and after the fact where Diaz tried to delay giving samples
- PLUS, Diaz admitting to trying to beat the test.
- PLUS, Diaz stating that it was not about Diaz using marijuana but being below a threshold!
- PLUS, Diaz supposedly had a prescription. To what? To use marijuana!!!

This is dumb and I've told you this a billion times. If he is below the threshold, he is not guilty. Right? Why are you bringing up so much **** that doesn't matter? Every single test found marijuana. Only 2 were above threshold. One where he was seeing if he could pass...then negative..then negative...then whopping positive...then negative. Something look out of place to you yet?

- PLUS, QUEST has a 2 test protocol. BOTH came up positive!!!

You are really not too bright. One was a SCREENING. WADA labs don't screen because maybe they can afford to do the main test that Quest is trying to avoid doing because of the cost. What you are doing is cowardly. If the GC/MS was negative, would you still say there was a legit positive? NO! So stop being a coward. The GC/MS was done by both and the screening doesn't matter worth shlt.

So AGAIN, its YOU that needs to show why Diaz is innocent. Not even Diaz's team wanted to know the results of Sample B. You know why? Because it would have told you that Diaz was guilty!!! There is no other possible explanation for that move. NONE!!!!!

If the sample was adulterated, would the result be different? Would it? Stop making dumb accusations.

Diaz's team gave a specific scenario that didn't make sense for a number of reasons. You bought their explanation. I showed you several studies and articles that point out that that is similar to what people are doing as far as drinking to dilute!!! So Specific Gravity or Creatinine test was not the point. The point is that one can dilute without being intoxicated.

LMAO. Coward.

BUT as I stated before, what Diaz's team says has a few "IFs" in their statements. In other words, even if you buy into their version, you need to ask yourself, what "IF" Diaz did something different?

Diaz's team: "IF not properly corrected it can lead to serious medical condition such as headaches" Well that means that IF Diaz properly corrected it, then Diaz's expert is saying its possible!!!

How stupid do you have to be to keep saying this? You treat hyponatremia by being rushed to a hospital and having an IV. We know he didn't get rushed to a hospital because he went to the press conference after. Stop being dumb.

Diaz's team: "If its from hydration alone its not medically plausible." Well that means that IF Diaz did not do it by "hydration alone", then Diaz's expert is saying its possible!!!

LMAO. Again, thanks for proving that your whole premise about specific gravity is shlt.

Diaz's team: "To drop in 1:17 minutes between the 2 tests after the fight, absolutely not (possible)." But the so called expert didn't calculate that Diaz could have started drinking well before the 1:17 minutes!!!

You're so smart. Fight ended at 9:34ish. He stayed in the ring till about 9:45ish. First test was at 10:38 and he was slightly dehydrated. How the hell was he slightly dehydrated if he began drinking immediately? If he didn't begin drinking immediately, how is he at 1.009 after 1hour 17 minutes? LMAOOO. GIVE UP!

A Study does not have to show over 300 as long as the ratios are similar or at least shows that one can drop 8-10 FOLDs by drinking just water ......

As for over 300,
400 > 300 and the article that I pointed to shows that by just diluting 8 FOLDS, urine samples can drop from 400 to 50!!! BTW - I remember seeing a similar diagram where they demonstrate that by drinking just 1-2 liters of water the urine production increases dramatically! How long does it take? The effects are quick and comparable to Diaz's scenario.

BTW - AGAIN, I do not even need to show you any of this but I did. YOU on the other hand have shown me NOTHING and its you that needs to start showing me how its not possible. Oh wait, you cannot because you do not have the B sample and all experts say that 2 samples taken at different times by different labs and different protocols can have dramatically different results! Ooops!

There you go again saying it's now something else..the protocols...not dilution. LMAO. Do you understand that you are arguing against your point yet? This is really stupid.

Only way it's possible by only dilution is if he damn near kills himself. Isn't that what your studies show? Isn't it????? lmaoooooo. GIVE THE **** UP! When you stop ducking the questions about what your studies show, then we should discuss further.

1) Read my points that I made already in this post. Experts timeframe of 1:17 min was inaccurate and you do NOT need to drink an amount that the expert couldn't even tell us!

Your "expert" said it was 2-4 liters. Your studies beg to differ. LMAO.

2) So you are now agreeing that there are other scenarios!!! So Diaz's defense team is wrong! Its not impossible!!!

LMAOOOO. DUDEEEEEEE????? CAN YOU READ????? CAN YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH???????? I CORRECTED YOU ON THIS A BILLION TIMES. MEDICALLY IMPLAUSIBLE. NOT IMPOSSIBLE. MEANING, IF IT WAS DONE BY DILUTING ALONE, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN DAMN NEAR IN A COMA! SO BRINGING UP OTHER SCENARIOS IS IN ALIGNMENT WITH WHAT THE MRO IS SAYING! YOU HAVE A HEAD LIKE A ****ING ROCK.

So to say, Diaz's positive results was possible. You think that is what Diaz's team was trying to convey? Like I said, lame by both YOU for buying that crock and Diaz's team for coming up with all those "IFs"!

BTW - Its not Nate its Nick

Looks like you are buying what he is saying because he says this can't be just from diluting. Don't you feel stupid yet?

Diaz has a long history of marijuana abuse and this is about marijuana abuse and you ask why am I bringing it up? Diaz also has a history and admitted to trying to use and beat the system by ways such as diluting his urine sample. Are you saying that is all irrelevant? lol

That's exactly what I'm saying, because it is irrelevant. The issue is whether his marijuana metabolite was below the threshold, and if not, why the discrepancy. The issue between you and me is was it due to only diluting and the specific gravity test being faulty. You claim now that it wasn't due only to diluting and that all labs could have been correct, so why do we need to continue? You admit defeat.

Voluntary? Diaz was having a hard time passing the test and failed several times. If he didn't pass it, no fight! lol
""But with the clock ticking, the manager, Lloyd Pierson, allegedly admitted that the fighter was having a tough time passing a test and mentioned the possibility of obtaining a therapeutic-use exemption for marijuana to the NSAC’s legal representative, Nevada Deputy Attorney General Chris Eccles."

The tests were voluntary. If they weren't, he wouldn't have gotten his license, genius.

How he does it?

Again, you need to talk to Diaz to know exactly but Diaz has stated in the past that he would smoke marijuana 7-8 days out and often even the night before the fight:
- Diaz said in an interview with The Times last week. "I'm happy to get loaded, hear some good music . . . I remain consistent. And I have an easy way to deal with [the drug tests]."
"I got high in my [hotel] room the night before every [UFC] fight," Diaz said.

- MMA fighter Nick Diaz says smoking marijuana is part of his plan He says it helps him be 'more consistent about everything.'

Whoopty doo. You found a quote saying he smoked it before fights in what? 2006? 2009? Good for you. I highly doubt he is dumb enough to pay out of pocket to make sure he can pass, then get reinstated, then smoke again right before knowing he would be tested. Makes no damn sense and you know it.

But as stated by the experts, results can vary dramatically given that we have multiple Labs, PROTOCOLS and urine samples tested are different but since you want to go there:

Explanation: Using the evidence on hand, on 1/26 Diaz passed a test with < 50 where he was supposedly more dehydrated than any of his tests on 1/31 YET, his THC metabolite concentration was even
lower than TEST #2 and #3. Being that TEST #1 was extremely diluted, when you take into account corrections due to dilution, it would be the case (THC levels for TEST #1 are higher than 1/26 results) for TEST #1 as well (perhaps even without the corrections since TEST #1 was at about 49 ng/ml)!!!!!

So we have another nail in the coffin. This pretty much solved this case!

In summary, the 1/26 results show lower THC levels with a relatively higher concentration of urine (more dehydrated) than the 1/31 THC levels for all 3 tests.
To get the THC levels up, only if Diaz smoked up afterwards does it make any sense! BINGO!!! Case solved.

LMAO. Have you paid attention to your studies about marijuana and the patterns in the levels. How many times have you seen them fluctuate maybe 10ng. Now how many times have you seen them fluctuate about 600ng? Yea, I thought so.

No you fail to see the issue.

This guy has a fight coming up and is smoking and "thinking" that he would be below the threshold. That is a best case scenario.

Worst case is that he thought that with the new threshold, he can smoke and EASILY beat(by cheating) the test . As Diaz admits, he is not too bright. He admits and you are OK with all that. lol

If you or I were in Diaz's shoes, we would just have stopped because we would know better than to take the chance. Especially since he got caught twice before!

Again, you are assuming he smoked after the 1/26 test, which makes no sense first of all. Second, doesn't explain why the third test would be so low, now does it? Where did all of that metabolite go? Wasn't due to dilution, was it? Nope. 1.009.

The experts told you that the results can vary dramatically due to it being different labs, protocols and urine samples!!! Plus there are other variables to consider. What do you not understand about that?

I understand that you are wrong. GC/MS is the same test for both, right? You are saying the problem was the specific gravity test? Right? Not one person besides you has drawn that conclusion, and all because you have a hatred for Floyd Mayweather. It's really sad, bro. Really. Having a specific gravity of 1.009 is not going to dilute 733ng or even well over 300ng to 61ng. You know it and I know it, so why are you still going? Show me one study that shows you can dilute well over 300ng of marijuana by diluting to 1.009SPG. I'll wait. I bet you come up with nothing and ignore this.

WRONG.

The MRO stated that levels cannot drop from 733 to 61 in 1:17 min.

Not by diluting alone. Nope. And you agree...so what's your problem with SPG?

1) QUEST stated that the reliable value is > 300 not 733

Good for them. Waiting for you to show me well over 300ng to 61ng with spg 1.009.

2) From the time of the end of the fight to TEST #3 it was more than 1:17 min. Close to double that amount of time.

Again, then how was he slightly diluted at 10:38pm? Why was spg 1.009 an hour and 17 minutes after that. Oh, he drank so much. LMAO.

3) MRO had too many "IFs" to make his statement credible.

This is one of your most idiotic arguments. The dude says he could happen if he treated his hyponatremia, and you think DIAZ thought of some novel way to treat hyponatremia in a few minutes in the back of a stadium. LMAOOOOOO! Dude, go away.

4) ALMOST EVERY STUDY AND ARTICLE THAT i READ SAYS THAT YOU CAN DILUTE AND YOU SHOULD DILUTE WITHIN HOURS OF YOUR TEST because trying to dilute way before that time is useless!!!! I pointed out one article where 400 ng/ml drops to 50 (8 FOLD) and they mention it that it can be dropped easily at 10 FOLDS and more since THC metabolites are usually not in the 10s of thousands like some other substances.

Good for you. Did you reveal the specific gravities for those subjects? Did you? Did you???? Keep your focus.

Anyhow,
- Diaz was extremely diluted before the fight and was also diluted in TEST #3. 1.009 is considered more than 2 FOLDs diluted.
- Diaz's TEST #2 was supposedly more concentrated .
- THC metabolite concentrations follow a "sawtooth" pattern of increases and decreases dependent upon urine volume and other factors.
- Studies state not to do any exercise for at least 2 hours prior to the test as it can elevate your THC metabolite levels.

LMAO. Dude, I already showed you the studies on this. Give the **** up. Exercise doesn't make that big of a difference if any at all. Scroll pages back and stop with your delusional bs.

- What did Diaz do besides drinking water to beat the system?

So it's not about dilution? How many times are you going to admit you are wrong by saying this?

- If the THC metabolite levels drop it does not necessarily mean that there was a reduction. Why? As stated there are variables to consider. Urine volume, dilution, other substances in the urine sample, less THC excreted for that sample compared to previous samples (example: due to exercise, muscle/body injuries and so on)
- Urine sample: Did Diaz collect mid-stream sample of urine in the collection cup for both or was it done differently?
- TEST #2 which had higher concentrations of THC metabolites was flushed out of his system. TEST #3 was more dilute.
- The state of polyuria typically lasts from 1-4 hours. Some cases it can be longer than that!
- Study: "The marijuana assay turned negative and stayed that way, even after specific gravity levels had returned to normal!"
- Studies have reported that after combat fighting, the athlete can have more substances in his urine due to exercise and trauma. This could affect specific gravity and creatinine levels.
- MRO, the so called expert, made the mistake of not advising Diaz to test Sample B so that means Sample A stands.

LMAO. So much bullshlt. Was this about only dilution? Is there a problem with the specific gravity test? Yes or no?

When possible, they take a THC/Creatinine ratio to be sure that a drop in THC really means an overall reduction. There is a possibility that the THC metabolite levels can drop yet the user actually used marijuana compared to previous samples where the THC levels were actually higher.

In summary, lots of stuff could have happened.

What? Lots could have happened. Did dilution cause it? Yes or no?

I explained it to you already in this post. SMRTL had it wrong at least once since one sample was sent to the LAB was extremely diluted. That goes against their own protocol and YOU cannot turn around and say that was done right! Secondly, LABCORPs result is more in line with QUESTs positive result not SMRTLs negative result as I explained already. In other words, one would expect that a sample taken 5 days later would have a much lower level of THC metabolite especially if its a very diluted sample compared to the more concentrated sample from 1/26. Well that was not the case for any of the 3 test results from 1/31 date.

Already addressed this. Look at your studies about marijuana, then you won't say such foolishness like the 1/26 test which was consistent with the SMRTL test was actually in line with the Quest test. LMAO. How the **** can <50ng be more in line with >300ng???? What the **** are you smoking?

Secondly, there is also the possibility that none of the LABs had it wrong in that they reported what they could find and that's it. We do not know exactly what Diaz did to cheat. Its like athletes who get tested multiple times and pass all but 1. You do not throw out that 1 because the others turned up negative. Nor is it the testing agency that needs to prove what exactly the athlete did to cheat. All they need to do is find the illegal substances.

BINGO! You're done!

1.020 is not a random number. Its mentioned by WADA and SMRTL and others as a point of reference. Its used as a baseline to normalize their values/results. Its used as a guide to state if > 1.020
then the athlete is considered to be more dehydrated and < 1.020 more hydrated. Go check out various sites and articles, you would see that they use that number as reference to state how dilute a urine sample is (eg. 1.01 = 2 Fold, 1.002 = 10 Fold,.....)

They use that for samples that are found to be DILUTED! 1.009 is not found by anyone or any organization to be diluted. Nice try.

"At 1:15:00 in the hearing Dr. Eichner, the president from SMRTL, starts his testimony. He has been president for 4 years at SMRTL, WADA approved lab, and expert toxicologist. At 1:21:00 Eccles asks about the final concentration level for the last test, SG 1.009, Eccles asked "what can you tell us about the specimen with that SG," Eichner answered "1.009 is evident that urine is more dilute than what we would normally see, regular sample we would normally see is 1.020, so 1.009 is significantly lower than that, significantly more hydrated then normal."

Oh, the guy who said ideally they want a SPC no lower than 1.008? lol. We been through this already.

Diaz's TEST #1 and TEST #3 THC metabolite numbers are not important by itself. One needs to factor in the dilution but there very well can be other factors as I have pointed out already. So to say that if TEST #1 and TEST #3 were not dilute, the THC metabolite numbers would definitely have been higher.

Squirminggggggg. So is this because of SPG or not?

What? I have been pointing this out like forever! Experts in the Diaz case even mentions this.

Here is a study that splits a urine sample into 4 and tests them all. They were expecting that they would all come back with the exact same results but there hypothesis was wrong.

"If the split sample method is employed, the donor urinates into a single collection container, and the
collection site person, in the presence of the donor, pours the specimen into two specimen bottles. The specimens are sealed and shipped to the laboratory for drug testing. The process is designed to produce identical specimens that, upon analysis, would produce equivalent results.

There were 13 specimens in which THCCOOH concentrations differed from the mean by more than 20% and 3 specimens which differed by more than 50%"


https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Concentration

BINGO. You still doing this to yourself???

What? I just explained to you that there were 2 positive tests before 1/26. The 1/26 results do not jive with the 1/31 results and I state why above. TEST #1 on 1/31, which you are saying was

negative can be thrown out of the window yet you are clinging on to that as if its valid. So again, it just does not add up! The 1/26 result in which the urine concentration was high has a lower THC metabolite level than any of the 1/31 results. That must mean that Diaz smoked up after the 1/26 date and/or Diaz happened to beat the 1/26 test as well.

LMAOOOOOOO. So either beat the 1/26 test that wasn't diluted...or he smoked up again so soon and beat 2 WADA tests but not the Quest test. Yea, ok. I think you are smoking something.

Days before 1/23: Diaz failed
1/23: Diaz failed
1/26: Diaz passed with THC < 50 ng/ml NOTE: Urine was very concentrated
1/31 TEST #1: Diaz test was invalid due to it being to dilute. THC = 49 but would be much higher if corrected for dilution. Red flag if taking 1/26 results into consideration.
1/31 TEST #2a: Diaz failed immunoassay test: Score was 1.423 which means its positive for marijuana
1/31 TEST #2b: Diaz failed quantitative gc/ms test: THC metabolite > 300 ng/ml
1/31 TEST #3: Diaz passed but urine sample was > 2 FOLDs dilute. THC = 61 but would be much higher if corrected for dilution. Red flag if taking 1/26 results into consideration.

The above is enough for most but remember that Diaz has failed and been suspended twice before and has avoided being tested before. He also said that he can pass any marijuana test. Its too easy!

Not sure what tests before 1/23 you are referring to, but it's pretty idiotic what you are saying. He failed...failed...PASSED! Applied for reinstatement...PASSED (yes diluted, but within normal range of the 3rd test according to a ****ing MRO), FAILS with well over 300ng, Passes with 61ng 1hr 17minutes later. HMMM. And you think you have something? According to you, it was due to dilution...now it's "other factors." You just came off of your whole argument. It's over.

No. Diaz's team did the best they can under the circumstances but lets face it. If they thought that TEST #2 was wrong, they would have had the B sample tested. Being that they made that fatal mistake, Sample A stands!!! They could have even requested Sample B be tested after the case since they wanted to retry yet they instead agreed that they made a mistake when pleading the 5th and made a mistake in not saying that Diaz smoked but not during "in-competition". That was Diaz's statement in order to reduce his suspension time.

Would you have a B sample tested if the A sample had your name on it, ****ed up chain of custody, and you had a commission that was on your ass from the get go by having you take 3 tests in one day? That sample was contaminated. Who knows how or why, but it seems clear to me. Why test him 3 times in one day? That doesn't hit you as suspicious at all? They wanted him...no matter what was said, they got him.

Say the truth. If Manny Pacquaio was tested 10+ times against Floyd and failed only once, would you have said that it was wrong since Manny passed those other 9 times?

Apples and oranges? Are we talking about marijuana? Did he pass a WADA test 1hr 17 minutes later? Come on, man.

Everyone in the case stated that TEST #1 was way too dilute and TEST #3 was more dilute than normal.
Nobody disputed that. So you cannot say that is not the case.

WADA accepts higher than 1.005. Eichner said ideally 1.008 or above. You aren't fooling anyone.

Lance Armstrong passed many times but that didn't mean that he didn't cheat. If I would have told you that he smuggled right in front of the DCO an IV and used it just minutes before giving a sample, you would have laughed and said that its idiotic to believe that the DCO would have not seen that. We do not know what Nick Diaz did exactly but one thing is for sure, he has diluted in the past and TEST #1 and #3 were diluted samples! TEST #1 was so much so that it was an invalid result.

LMAOOO> Lance ARMSTRONG AGAIN? I'M DONE!