Comments Thread For: Pacquiao's Potential HBO PPV Departure, Mayweather II Influence

[jqSide]

HBO most likely wanted Paqcuaio vs Crawford. Bob Arum said no.

At first I thought it was about the gay issue. But then I thought about the rift between Arum and Nelson of HBO that has gotten so wide that it seems irreparable. Nelson wanted Crawford vs Matthysse and Bob Arum said no and came up with a Postol vs Mathysse. Two foreigners that did a mere 663K for HBO. Just one sample of the reason for the rift.

Bob Arum:

"...In other words, keep building the fighters and occasionally put them on HBO. And the reason why I say occasionally is I really believe that we have tremendous talent at Top Rank...

I'm not gonna give up our ability to match-make and build fighters to beat at Nelson at HBO whose building boxing for a cup of coffee and thinks he knows something about match-making...

"That's what people don't understand. You have to build up fighters not by putting him on ... putting him against good fighters who they then overwhelm and look good. Now... Nelson doesn't have that vision and I'm not gonna let him screw up our prospects by taking away from us what is our great strength and that's the ability to match-make. And if that means frequently not on HBO, that's too bad we'll find a way.

Speaking of Crawford, do you have an opponent in mind for that defense?

"Well, again, we're gonna put Crawford in with a man we believe will give Crawford a very good fight, which will be an exciting fight for the people in south Florida.

Nelson has some ideas of who Crawford should fight and if he persists in his ideas and HBO continues to back him, then we'll take Crawford elsewhere. In other words, we are a company that prides ourselves in putting on fights and match-making and we're not gonna let somebody else come in and do what we do best. Now, HBO is paying us money that fights on HBO, so they have the right and obligation to reject any fight that we give them, but they're not gonna match-make for me.

[Idunnoshet]

it is? i actually think berto pretty easily defeats vargas

I Highly doubt Berto "Easily" beats Vargas . This the same Berto that lost to Soto-Karass ( regardless of injury ) . But still Berto > Vargas ... And I like Jesse !

[Idunnoshet]

Only brodda lives matter with these race supremacist scums of the earth. Doesn't matter his roidweather hero tests positive 3 times. Uses Lance Armstrong's ped masking style. Referred to as the best eva, but fights Berto, Ortiz, Maidana, weight-drained Canelo, out of prime Cotto, Guerrero... yuk! best eva my ass.

Keep embarrassing yourselves broddas. Keep using alts to hide your chicken feelings.

Damn ... FEELINGS !!! I Honestly thought the Maidana ( just beat down Broner ) , Ortiz ( just beat an undefeated Berto ) , Canelo ( young hungry Champion ) and the Cotto ( turned out to be a Good test for Floyd ) were all good wins . But hey ...I'm just a Boxing fan ?

[Nay_Sayer]

Statistically, the only other fighter to beat Manny unanimous besides TBE was Erik Morales - and that took getting cut and bloodied from a headbutt. That's telling, to me.

Juan Manuel Marquez?

[Combat Talk Radio]

Juan Manuel Marquez?

I'm talking about decision victories. A knockout can happen to anyone, at any time. Doesn't prove you're better than the other guy; I won't accept that Sergio Martinez is a better fighter than Paul Williams, or Pirog was better than Jacobs, or Marquez being better than Manny, despite getting KTFO by punches they didn't see. To this day I'm not convinced Lewis is better than Rahman.

A decision victory means you won over at least two judges and either got lucky or did "just enough. A unanimous decision means you basically proved you're better than your opponent in the eyes of those scoring.

If Morales hadn't bloodied Manny, I'm not sure he would have won that fight, despite being up on the cards. Manny was a late starter against quite a few opponents.

But TBE? It was just a one-sided boxing lesson across 10 rounds. No other fighter can claim the same against Manny, now or ever in the future.

[travestyny]

So what you are saying is, the NSAC wanted to investigate the possible perjury of a non-existent injury which matched the pre-fight form (no checked box)? Thanks for the laugh!

Nice try. Once again, NSAC doctors checked Manny out and they found no proof of the injury.

"I have no proof of the injury," Aguilar said. "If he told us on Friday, we would have gotten the MRIs and there are a lot of things we could have done."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/boxing/manny-pacquiao-fought-with-injured-right-shoulder--denied-shot-in-locker-room-060910259.html

Since Pacquiao went on to claim that there was an injury, that's why he would be investigated. So yes, as you can clearly see, they had no proof of the injury but they threatened to investigate based on Pacquiao's claims.

[travestyny]

1. What? You said it in the other post that Manny said it just before the fight to the NSAC. Even your own link says it! Go read!
2. Manny wanted to fight. You think Margarito was fine to fight with his eye? You think he said he wasn't fine?
3. Floyd did the same. So you do not believe Floyd and his IV excuses?
4. Ignoring what I said?
5. NSAC also checked out Floyd and said he was fine. So you do not believe Floyd and his IV excuses?
6. Manny's doctor advised Manny that he can fight with the injury. And? Plus Manny made it worse after the 3rd and 4th rounds! FULL THICKNESS TEAR!!!
and confirmed by Manny's doctor.

----------------------------------

For points 1 & 2
You are having a very hard time following this, aren't you? Let me help you out. Manny did not mention this injury ahead of time. He tried to get shot up, then he mentioned it when NSAC stopped him. He then said it was for an injury that was no longer an issue. NO LONGER AN ISSUE. If you recall correctly, from the evidence I found, I was able to pinpoint even when the injury occurred. He tweeked his shoulder during sparring. This is nothing out of the ordinary for boxers. Now this is where it gets interesting. He got treatment and then claimed he was fine. Even his doctors claimed he was fine, so don't give me that **** about him not wanting his opponent to know. Once again, even his doctors said he was fine. Then there is no reason to take the meds for the fight, right? He was FINE going into the fight. Now, after the fight was over, he did not mention any re-injury....at least not until the post-fight press conference.

3. Once again, can you find any precedence of a boxer declaring dehydration to a boxing commission, or a boxing commission diagnosing a fighter with dehydration. You can't, can you? Did Dela Hoya declare dehydration when he had an IV? One that no one had a problem with, by the way. Why wasn't that an issue? Simple. Because WADA wasn't involved. Does that situation help you to understand?

4. Freddie Roach said there will be no excuses and that the best man will win. I guess he didn't know that his charge was a coward.

5. What we have is NSAC never ever diagnosing a fighter with dehydration. Find the precedence of this. You cannot.

What you also have is NSAC sending two doctors to check out Manny's shoulder specifically and finding no proof of an injury. Do you understand that. Sending two doctors to check out his shoulder.

We had Dr. (Timothy) Trainor and Dr. (James) Game check him out, and it was an easy decision on our part.”

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/boxing/nevada-commission-questions-pacquiao-s-injury-claim

Sorry, you lose.



6. Manny's doctor advised Manny that he was at normal strength. Point blank, period. No issue going into the fight.

So to sum up...no injury directly before the fight (claims to be 100%/normal strength)....no mention of injury directly after the fight.....mentions injury at the press conference. Got it?

[travestyny]

1. "Many UFC fighters have used IV hydration to quickly rehydrate during the precious 24 hours between weigh in and fight night. However with the USADA taking over as UFCs anti-doping enforcement agency and the subsequent ban on IV hydration, dehydration has become a real and serious risk for all UFC fighters."

So they cannot expect to rehydrate using an IV. Even in cases where they need to possibly rehydrate 10% or more but Floyd was allowed with close to 0-1% .... it does not make sense except to a Floyd fan who wants to protect FLoyd at all costs.

Then go get his medical records and see if it was legit. It doesn't make sense to you because you are not informed.

2. Floyd delayed giving a complete sample for 6 hours! This is very important.
If Floyd micro dosed, it could have made the difference between being caught by finding a trace amount of PEDs or nothing.

Drinking fluids and using that IV could have lowered his HT.

Well, go read what USADA and WADA state. Its all explained.

"WADA has justified the inclusion of IV infusions on the Prohibited List given the intent of some athletes to manipulate their plasma volume levels in order to mask the use of a prohibited substance and/or to distort the values in the Athlete Biological Passport. "

Ok, wait a minute. First of all, you've stated numerous times that Floyd begins testing late to have his PED's run their course and then start testing. Now you're trying to say that he microdosed (complete speculation) right up until the day before the fight. Sounds like you're just throwing a bunch of shlt out there.

Ok, besides that, so it's your belief that Floyd was microdosing. Do you believe USADA knew about this? You've gone on record saying USADA did favors for Mayweather. You completely ignore that WADA gives the DCO the proper procedure to follow when there is a delay because obviously it is deemed a legit occurrence. Perhaps you know more about how to handle this than WADA and the DCO? So let's get this straight. USADA allowed Floyd to delay for 6 hours (though he gave a partial urine sample before the IV, which you conveniently leave out) so that his microdosing would be complete, and then they allowed him to get the IV for good measure to lower his HT? Is that what you're now speculating? Seems odd to allow a delay for the express purpose that nothing would be found and then do a procedure that would leave a papertrail to be looked over if there were wrongdoing, but hey, this is your speculation so you explain that.

Are you saying that USADA wanted to help him manipulate his blood values immediately before testing on May 1st? This is what I want to know.

I want to understand exactly what you're trying to say before I completely address this, because you are all over the place.

Speculation? You are full of that but that never stopped you with speculating about Manny's injury and you have NOTHING!!!

Dude, there is so much evidence about Manny that only a fool would think he had a full-thickness rotator cuff injury. Don't kid yourself.

First Floyd and his fans want to clean up the sport but now they are trying to bring up stuff like you are doing. "When has a boxer declared to NSAC ...."

Sorry but NSAC said it to Manny that they need to be aware. So same with Floyd. So yes, I can stand on that but its you that cannot. Floyd had a serious medical condition and required an IV. Manny had a serious condition too. They both should have mentioned it to the NSAC but didn't. The problem is that you cannot admit to that!

I can't? Sure, he should mention it if they wanted him to. Dela Hoya should have mentioned his condition when he had an IV also. Chad Dawson should have mentioned his dehydrated state. All boxers should mention their dehydration. Should Floyd have mentioned his two hurt hands and two hurt shoulders, one of which was an injury he had for 10 years? I guess so. We always hear that it is rare if not non-existant for a boxer to go into a fight with no issues. Should they declare them all? Sure, if you want to be technical about it. Pacquiao should have mentioned his injury if he had one. Do you want to know the difference between Pacquiao and Dela Hoya, Mayweather, Dawson, etc.??? He made up an excuse and lied in order to drag NSAC through the mud. He even had his cronies at HBO (Kellerman and Lampley) blaming NSAC. Pacquiao was less than a man on that night. You go into the fight, you fight, and then you congratulate the winner or thank the loser. You don't make excuses and blame the commission, which caused NSAC to defend itself.

The below was meant for Manny. If they were aware at the time that Floyd disclosed nothing, Showtime would not have said this:
"All previous and on going medical conditions must be disclosed to the Nevada State Athletics Commissions.... neither fighter discloses an injury (medical condition)"
- Showtime - INSIDE MAYWEATHER VS. PACQUIAO | Epilogue

Mmm hmmm. And where were HBO lapdogs Kellerman and Lampley when Dela Hoya had the IV? I don't remember hearing any outrage, do you?

Above you said don't speculate but here you are speculating.

NSAC has stopped fighters due to injuries. That's why some fighters go to other jurisdictions where they can get a license to fight.

I was certainly not talking about fighters being licensed to fight, and I think you know that. Why waste your time with things that you know are irrelevant to the discussion.

So that is why the athlete cannot expect to do what Floyd did. Get an IV then later ask for permission to use an IV.

That is not what happened. Stop with your lies. He asked to get the IV before having the IV. This is common knowledge by now, so just stop already.

Let me know of a UFC fighter or anyone who had their weight as stable as a rock and admitted to making weight easily but required an IV and a RETRO TUE due to the reasons that Floyd pointed out.

--------------------------

Ask and you shall receive:
According to an article from Robert Morales from the The Daily News.Com site, De La Hoya was already weighing 143 pounds a month before his fight with Pacquiao. Additionally, De La Hoya weighed in at 145 a day before his bout with Pacquiao, and then failed to gain any weight after that.
http://www.************.com/2008/12/...s-to-pacquiao/

Dela Hoya was 143 one month out.
He was 145 on the day of the weigh-in.
He was 147 on fight night.

At least 30 days between 143 and 145. I'd say that's pretty damn stable. Or will you say this doesn't count since there was no TUE...knowing that there didn't have to be one because WADA wasn't involved. Let's hear your excuses for this one.

So lets see, Floyd gets to do whatever he wants and you think that he would be wanting to blame others too? Thanks for the laugh!!!

I believe he followed WADA's rules. So sure, he can do what he wants as long as he follows the rules.

and to say that Floyd doesn't mention is a crock. They still bring up years later that his poor performance against Castillo was due to his tear. But if it was so bad, why did he quickly discuss a rematch? You are OK with Floyd's BS .... that is the real problem here.

The injury was mentioned IMMEDIATELY AFTER ROUND 1. It was a matter of fact that there was an injury. Mayweather won the fight.

Pacquiao gave a bevy of excuses. Excuse A: He wouldn't stand still so I can punch him. Excuse B: The judges got it wrong. Excuse C(at the press conference): Oh, I forgot to tell you in the ring that I hurt my shoulder.

He was so busy thinking of excuses that he even forgot to thank God

[MrRolltide91]

............

[MrRolltide91]

Bob Arum mentions ESPN, Turner and Showtime to possibly carry Pacquiao after HBO passes on bout w/ Vargas. My story: https://t.co/cuqA4KxMXP

— Mitchell Abramson (@mabramson13) August 16, 2016