Guillermo Rigondeaux Technical Discussion (I'm Putting You on the Spot)

[-PBP-]

I see a lot of quotes like this:

Unfortunately, a lot of people simply don't know what they're looking at. They'll never outright admit it, but his style goes straight over their heads.

This.

Rigo is like the 1000 years flood. Rare, unique, etc. The rest are like the 100 year floods, unique in their own ways, but seen more often.

For me P4P, between those 5 (Loma included) Rigo takes it.

Man I have been watching him for awhile and I'm amazed at his skills, do you think he could out box a prime FMJ, whitaker and RJJ if they where in the same weight class?

People on this forum always talk about how Rigo is one of the most highly skilled fighter with all-time great talent. One of the best pure boxers who has ever lived. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I have yet to see anybody explain the "how"?

The typical responses are:

1. He's amazing at controlling distance, he's a great counter puncher, has great footwork, great power and great speed.

2. If you don't understand what you are watching, you just don't understand why Rigo is so great.

They dance around the question when confronted about it. Don't get me wrong, I'm in rehab for being mentally Rigotarded. But I'm not delusional. How can anyone with a straight face place Rigo among fighters like Whitaker, Duran, Mayweather, Hopkins or even an Andre Ward when:

1. He hasn't faced the diverse range of styles that those fighters have had to face.

2. He hasn't shown the versatility those fighters have shown...like

a. The ability to throw punches from all ranges,

b. fight inside, outside, mid-range, off the ropes, front foot back, foot, etc. etc.

c. vary their offensive attack and mix up their combinations


The arguments for Rigondeaux (he controls distance well, has great footwork, is a great counter puncher, has great timing, has great IQ, etc.) can be said for every fighter I listed.

But the fighters I listed are much more diverse, well rounded fighters than Rigondeaux and have proven it against every style imaginable.


So what I'm going to do, is give each and every one of you, the opportunity to back up your arguments about Rigondeaux's greatness. And I don't want to hear **** like "You DKSAB, if you knew what you were watching, you would see what I see".

You're not getting off that easy. Back up your statements because to me, as great as he is, you just can't put him in the category of these all time great fighters.

[KingHippo]

My argument for Rigo is that he simply cannot be beat.

I don't see any of the guys you mentioned being successful at all against Rigo, with the exception of Andre Ward.

Rigo would embarrass guys like Duran and cower them into not throwing.

Just like Floyd, he does a few things but he does them extremely well.

He's a master at setting traps, changing levels, timing, posing and feinting. He knows how to control his center line to create a sense of false distance. Smart use of the lead hand. Incredible footwork. Crazy power.

Rigo's only 17 fights in and he's more accomplished than anybody you mentioned at the same stage of their careers with the exception of Loma, who's the only fighter I would compare with him in terms of pure skill.

[-PBP-]

My argument for Rigo is that he simply cannot be beat.

I don't see any of the guys you mentioned being successful at all against Rigo, with the exception of Andre Ward.

Rigo would embarrass guys like Duran and cower them into not throwing.

Just like Floyd, he does a few things but he does them extremely well.

He's a master at setting traps, changing levels, timing, posing and feinting. He knows how to control his center line to create a sense of false distance. Smart use of the lead hand. Incredible footwork. Crazy power.

Rigo's only 17 fights in and he's more accomplished than anybody you mentioned at the same stage of their careers with the exception of Loma, who's the only fighter I would compare with him in terms of pure skill.

I can say the same thing about Roberto Duran. He was a master at setting traps, changing levels, timing, feinting and had smart use of his lead hand. Good footwork and crazy power. Except with Duran, I can take it one step further and talk about how he was a way more well rounded fighter: in that he could fight inside, outside mid-range and counter.

And most importantly, Duran proved it against extremely better opposition.

Head to head is speculation and I would have to think about it more. But there is no way that Rigo is a more complete, well rounded fighter than any of the guys I listed. He does certain things better than each of them but as an overall complete boxer, he is not there. He might get there but based on his body of work that is a reach.

[Doctor_Tenma]

It's always been mind boggling for me when a fighter who doesn't show many dimensions is compared to ATGs. Whitaker was as good as anyone, literally, at being able to fight going backwards, Rigondeaux doesn't move his hands when he gets into position.

[kiaba360]

Though I'm a bit "Rigotarded" myself, I do believe that the lack of willing opponents has turned Rigo into a novelty. We've stopped analyzing his quality of opposition or his faults and are just glad to see him fight. The mark of a great fighter is his ability to force the opponent into playing to his strengths, regardless of style; however, it's also a sign of greatness for a fighter to be a chameleon. Rigo has excelled while using his one dimension (counter-punching), but he hasn't proven himself against all types of opponents yet. If he can force everyone to play into his preferred dimension, that would be phenomenal. If he showcases different dimensions for different fighters, then it probably makes him even greater.

For example, what would impress more? Rigo completely shutting down LSC's notoriously high workrate, or getting the best of LSC on the inside?

[Doctor_Tenma]

My argument for Rigo is that he simply cannot be beat.

I don't see any of the guys you mentioned being successful at all against Rigo, with the exception of Andre Ward.

Rigo would embarrass guys like Duran and cower them into not throwing.

Just like Floyd, he does a few things but he does them extremely well.

He's a master at setting traps, changing levels, timing, posing and feinting. He knows how to control his center line to create a sense of false distance. Smart use of the lead hand. Incredible footwork. Crazy power.

Rigo's only 17 fights in and he's more accomplished than anybody you mentioned at the same stage of their careers with the exception of Loma, who's the only fighter I would compare with him in terms of pure skill.

If he's such a master at controlling distance, and I don't deny he does this well but you said master, how come his lead left isn't as consistently thrown/ as accurate as Mayweather's straight right or Whitaker's straight left? If he's so deceptive in controlling distance, why doesn't he have a consistent jab the like of Hagler, Winky, Whitaker or Michael Moorer? Explain that......

[KingHippo]

I can say the same thing about Roberto Duran. He was a master at setting traps, changing levels, timing, feinting and had smart use of his lead hand. Good footwork and crazy power. Except with Duran, I can take it one step further and talk about how he was a way more well rounded fighter: in that he could fight inside, outside mid-range and counter.

And most importantly, Duran proved it against extremely better opposition.

Head to head is speculation and I would have to think about it more. But there is no way that Rigo is a more complete, well rounded fighter than any of the guys I listed. He does certain things better than each of them but as an overall complete boxer, he is not there. He might get there but based on his body of work that is a reach.

I could care less about how well rounded you think Rigo is, what matters is how efficient he is, and I don't see Duran scoring more than a 20% connect rate against him.

Duran's feint game was pretty basic, never saw him changing levels once and his footwork was garbage. I would also add that his punching mechanics weren't great and he had poor defense.

[j0zef]

I'm not going to defend him, because you're absolutely right. Information spreads like wildfires on NSB. Someone said "man, this guy is a defensive genius. Maybe better than Floyd". Then someone looked him up and said "wow, he's a 2 time olympic gold medalist! He's also Cuban, they're all awesome over there". Then someone else said "Omg he beat Donaire who was a P4Per, he's the best". And the last guy said that "He completely embarassed a p4per that's why he's the best".

Here are some supporting fact to add onto the topic:
-Rigo's resume consists of Donaire and nobody else. Outside of Donaire, he has not fought 1 legitimate threat in his career.
-Rigo was knocked down by Donaire in their fight (only 1 in the fight), and won a clear, but close decision by 1-3 rounds depending on who you ask. It was not an embarassment of Donaire by any means
-Rigo gets knocked down, a lot - even by average boxers.
-He was close to losing several times in his career, almost getting knocked out by Amagasa

[-PBP-]

Though I'm a bit "Rigotarded" myself, I do believe that the lack of willing opponents has turned Rigo into a novelty. We've stopped analyzing his quality of opposition or his faults and are just glad to see him fight. The mark of a great fighter is his ability to force the opponent into playing to his strengths, regardless of style; however, it's also a sign of greatness for a fighter to be a chameleon. Rigo has excelled while using his one dimension (counter-punching), but he hasn't proven himself against all types of opponents yet. If he can force everyone to play into his preferred dimension, that would be phenomenal. If he showcases different dimensions for different fighters, then it probably makes him even greater.

For example, what would impress more? Rigo completely shutting down LSC's notoriously high workrate, or getting the best of LSC on the inside?

When you fight other great fighters, it helps if you have multiple dimensions. Pernell Whitaker walked Chavez down, boxed off his back foot, used lateral movement and won the battle inside. His versatility allowed him to be so dominant. If he was one dimensional he would have had a much harder time dealing with a fighter of that caliber.

Great fighters take away what you do best and I have a hard time imagining Rigo keeping a Marco Antonio Barrera or Erik Morales off of him for 12 rounds.

[-PBP-]

I could care less about how well rounded you think Rigo is, what matters is how efficient he is, and I don't see Duran scoring more than a 20% connect rate against him.

Duran's feint game was pretty basic, never saw him changing levels once and his footwork was garbage. I would also add that his punching mechanics weren't great and he had poor defense.

You just said one of the best defensive fighters of all time has poor defense. It's easy to have great defense when you throw 12 punches per round. I'm more impressed with the guy that's standing in the pocket, rolling and slipping punches, being offensive minded and STILL not getting hit.

Ward, Mayweather, Duran and Whitaker have all been successful in doing that.