Bernard Hopkins took calculated risks, he is 1 of the most overrated modern ATG

[therealpugilist]

Roy Jones is a special fighter. Not being able to stop Roy Jones does not mean you struggle with speed and movement. He lost to Calzaghe and Taylor but those fights were close. It's not like you can't make an argument either way.

Jean Pascal has speed and uses movement, so how can you discount that? He didn't make any adjustments vs. Pascal after he was dropped twice early on and proceeded to win nearly every remaining round?

who was more dangerous...calzaghe or tarver

[IMDAZED]

I kinda feel like that too but guess what...he is an ATG so......

[b00g13man]

it was a calculated risk.....at the time who was more dangerous...Joe Calzaghe, an all time great....or tarver a very good fighter but could be erratic?

I give him credit for Holmes, and trinidad but beating a former ww who did little before and after fighting him at 160 isnt some ground breaking victory man

I give him credit as a great fighter, i just dont make excuses for his losses...he was old doe, etc.

he is overrated a tactician in my eyes because in no time in his career did he beat a top fighter with elite speed, movement and adjust to the activity

if he cant control the pace he is done at the top level prime and past prime

Calzaghe? Really? What had he done up until then? If you think Hopkins career is overrated, but somehow rated Joe's prior to the Hopkins fight, I don't know what more needs to be said.

[IMDAZED]

it was a calculated risk.....at the time who was more dangerous...Joe Calzaghe, an all time great....or tarver a very good fighter but could be erratic?

I give him credit for Holmes, and trinidad but beating a former ww who did little before and after fighting him at 160 isnt some ground breaking victory man

I give him credit as a great fighter, i just dont make excuses for his losses...he was old doe, etc.

he is overrated a tactician in my eyes because in no time in his career did he beat a top fighter with elite speed, movement and adjust to the activity

if he cant control the pace he is done at the top level prime and past prime

While I think he is a tad overrated (yet still an ATG), fighting Tarver at that time was a much bigger risk than fighting Calzaghe.

[therealpugilist]

We've had this discussion before. Losses don't undo what you have already accomplished or what you accomplish after. If it did, would most of the top 10 ATG's even be top 10? A large chunk of ATG's have double digit loses. Most of which occured late in their careers.

You keep bringing up his loss to Roy. He actually gave a good account of himself against Roy and won rounds at a time when Roy was whitewashing everyone. That speaks volumes to me about B-Hop's skill level. Considering I can count on one hand the amount of fighters that I think could beat a prime Roy.

Roy was the only elite talent middleweight he faced for years until he fought Holmes, Trinidad and taylor

I know losses happen, but the thing is certain fighters have your number or were just the better man that day....everytime Hopkins lost sense taylor its...he old doe....then he wins, OH HE is the greatest......thats weird

I agree losses dont undo the past, but loses also indicate a fighters limitations and what troubles them.....Hopkins had trouble when he didnt dwarf guys and didnt have the edge in speed and movement

common sense, you're gonna look unbeatable vs guys like Joe Lipsey and washed up simon brown

bro Hopkins won no more than 3-4 rounds...their are no moral victories in boxing

I remember when idiots said he was green.....what 28 year old you know with over 90 amatuer fights and 20 pro fights is green?

[djtmal]

Hopkins:

middleweight run is overrated

175 run was respectable (best win was tarver)

loyal following makes tons of excuses for why he was a shrunk down lightheavy to begin with, and all his losses


couldn't resist.....

[therealpugilist]

While I think he is a tad overrated (yet still an ATG), fighting Tarver at that time was a much bigger risk than fighting Calzaghe.

I cant say I agree but I can respect your opinion. Calzaghe imo is a higher calibre of fighter than Tarver who often fought to the level of his opposition or to the percieved threat...he was erratic...calzaghe was consistent

[ИATAS]

pavlik also was unproven over 160

hopkins is a great fighter, his ability to adapt is overrated...nothing more or less

Hopkins had the basics down, knew all the dirty tricks in the book, had a good chin, tucked his chin well and had solid defense....did that mean he could change his style, to adjust to his opponent? NO...he forced his fight on you and if it didnt work he really had no plan B...watch his fights....what did he do to adjust to taylor, jones, calzaghe, dawson, etc.? i'll wait....


we can agree to disagree, he doesnt adapt mid fight as quickly as other all time greats and others fighters like joe louis, mayweather, ward, etc.

What dirty tricks did he use against Pavlik? Pavlik had a fight at 165 pounds against Taylor II before. Hopkins was 43 years old there wasn't a size advantage since he doesn't use his size, he boxed pavlik.

Regardless at the end of the day, you're trying to downplay a great win for Hopkins, at age 43 coming off a loss, against an undefeated in his prime champion. No need for that.

And I don't know what you're talking about that he doesn't adapt like "other ATGs". Hopkins was a notorious slow starter. Why is that? Because he's adapting as the fight goes on. He usually takes 4-5 rounds to figure out his opponent (see Jean Pascal 1 as an example of adapting, and that was at age 45!).

[ИATAS]

who was more dangerous...calzaghe or tarver

Why? When he signed to fight Tarver, Calzaghe hadn't even fought Jeff Lacy yet. Did anyone think twice about Calzaghe pre-Jeff Lacy? Absolutely not (hence the reason a limited fighter like Lacy was a big favorite over Calzaghe). You lack context.

At that time, fighting Tarver at 175 was a MUCH bigger risk, without a question. Not too mention the far bigger fight.

[IMDAZED]

I cant say I agree but I can respect your opinion. Calzaghe imo is a higher calibre of fighter than Tarver who often fought to the level of his opposition or to the percieved threat...he was erratic...calzaghe was consistent

Tarver was a top three p4per at that time. Knocked the great Roy Jones off his pedestal. And Hopkins leaped two divisions for that fight. Really that's all that needs to be said.